Speculation: LA Kings with heavy interest in Landeskog
- Thread starter kingskring
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WHOneedsSOX
Registered User
- Mar 1, 2015
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One bad season. This isn't a Brown situation (yet). Still a top defensive forward in the NHL. Offensive obviously is garbage this season though. Kopitar was making $5 million a year you don't think they'd trade Draisaitl for Kopitar? You're insane.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
It's a silly point. When you're rebuilding and your best players are under 22, you're not trading them for a 29-year-old. I wouldn't trade McDavid for Crosby if I were them either, does that mean Crosby sucks?
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Draisaitl has as many assists as Kopitar has points, not to mention more than four times the goals. Factor in their ages (Leon is 21) and contracts, and you have your answer.
I wouldn't make the McDavid/Crosby comparison. Try Toews. And you'll get the same answer. Kopitar isn't going to get any better and we likely already have seen him at his best.
He'll definitely be capable of producing more than he has this season, but I think him reaching 20+ goals and 70+ points will be a big hurdle on this team. He benefitted greatly from having a linemate like Lucic last season.
Look at how exposed he is now when he can't lean on his wingers. He cowers from physical contact and never goes to the high danger areas. He's playing perimeter hockey at its finest.
I wouldn't make the McDavid/Crosby comparison. Try Toews. And you'll get the same answer. Kopitar isn't going to get any better and we likely already have seen him at his best.
He'll definitely be capable of producing more than he has this season, but I think him reaching 20+ goals and 70+ points will be a big hurdle on this team. He benefitted greatly from having a linemate like Lucic last season.
Look at how exposed he is now when he can't lean on his wingers. He cowers from physical contact and never goes to the high danger areas. He's playing perimeter hockey at its finest.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Yet they were all productive at the World Cup. Probably still adjusting to racking up points against weak competition like Lombardi's hand selected group of losers.
WHOneedsSOX
Registered User
- Mar 1, 2015
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The cap hit is the only factor. Age is not. Kopitar is still an elite defensive center. If his offensive game can produce 50-60 points at a minimum, you're looking at the best #2 center in the NHL (arguably with Malkin) for at least 3-4 more years. Edmonton could be a contender within 2-3 years. I'd be shocked if Kopitar wasn't still better than Draisaitl overall in 3-4 years.
Little Psycho
I solemnly swear I'm up to no good
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
deaderhead28
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
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2016-2017 Regular Season
GP G A P +/-
41 4 21 25
That's not worth a 10 million dollar cap or 14 million dollars this year.
41 games played is an incredibly small sample size considering his contract will run 656 games not including playoffs. food for thought!
Little Psycho
I solemnly swear I'm up to no good
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Kopitar will be turning 30 this off season. If he can return to posting the numbers he had the season prior, over 70 points and a Selke win or nomination, then the contract will be fine. But if he struggles to get to 20 goals or 60 points, then I really start to get worried.
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
I feel he's played some pretty strong games this month so it doesn't look--or even feel--like a Dustin Brown situation.
He had 16 goals and 60-something points in 2015 so this is isn't unprecedented.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
His 2014-15 numbers were his lowest posted since his rookie year. What has me a bit worried now is that he's experiencing his career worst numbers not long after. It is concerning and I hope it doesn't become a trend.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
How can it be a trend when he was 1.5 PPG down the back half of 15 and posted one of his best production seasons (and best all-around, arguably) last year?
Two bad half-seasons 2 years apart = a trend?
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
He no longer has the benefit of having Lucic as a linemate.
And Kopitar has scored a grand total of two goals since October. He scored his 3rd goal of the season on December 13 against Buffalo (which wasn't a shot on goal that went in), and then his fourth goal was on January 9.
It's funny that you have to cherry pick some stats to make him look good. His season has been disastrous, it is fine to admit it.
Are you seriously trying to spin Kopitar's struggles to a bad half season?
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
He no longer has the benefit of having Lucic as a linemate.
And Kopitar has scored a grand total of two goals since October. He scored his 3rd goal of the season on December 13 against Buffalo (which wasn't a shot on goal that went in), and then his fourth goal was on January 9.
It's funny that you have to cherry pick some stats to make him look good. His season has been disastrous, it is fine to admit it.
Are you seriously trying to spin Kopitar's struggles to a bad half season?
Are you seriously trying to say he's been struggling longer than that?
Tell me how bad he was last year and how that make this season a trend.
Few things to consider before this team starts on a new 5-7 year plan...
a) Think we underestimate the time it takes to produce NHL level everyday professionals: Hickey, Dowd, Forbert, are all examples of pros that most fans decided were busts many years ago. Fans often compare Elite Level player development to "normal" level player development. Few start careers like Blake, Kopitar, or Doughty.
b) Doubt seriously if Kings development staff allows multiple Reign players up simultaneously... especially in the current context with this level of goal tending. You bring these guys up one at a time when the team is actually playing its regular line-up... surround them with a confident, successful, and aggressive environment. Never bring them in a situation as "season savers". This concept does not apply to the aforementioned Elite Level prospect. Although Edmonton provides cautionary evidence for what happens to Elite prospects in a poor development program.
c) Current goal is to stay in the hunt for a playoff spot, wait for Quick, and bring back the core as a healthier, more in sync, unit with better balanced scoring. The big name, big pay, players are on-ice playing constantly outside their "sweetspots", their comfort zone within the Kings structure. They are constantly covering up individual mistakes AND trying to do too much. Second guessing, protecting against error rather then playing for dominance. They are not playing their zones, structurally or instinctively. Again, not a good environment, for rookies.
Now, it's a rough ride. This group and certain players seem to have hit a hurricane of poor scoring touch, bad bounces, and way too many posts. Statistics predict that will turn around. These players, this team, when in sync, can still win at every level of playoff competition and beat any team if Quick returns rested and gets sharp. The sad group of non-scoring players will find their touch and start moving towards their regular personal averages per game.
Should remind us of the 2012 team... out of sync on the ice until March. These issues are not the end of this group of players or King playoff games this season.
Just grit your teeth and hold on.
GKG!!!
a) Think we underestimate the time it takes to produce NHL level everyday professionals: Hickey, Dowd, Forbert, are all examples of pros that most fans decided were busts many years ago. Fans often compare Elite Level player development to "normal" level player development. Few start careers like Blake, Kopitar, or Doughty.
b) Doubt seriously if Kings development staff allows multiple Reign players up simultaneously... especially in the current context with this level of goal tending. You bring these guys up one at a time when the team is actually playing its regular line-up... surround them with a confident, successful, and aggressive environment. Never bring them in a situation as "season savers". This concept does not apply to the aforementioned Elite Level prospect. Although Edmonton provides cautionary evidence for what happens to Elite prospects in a poor development program.
c) Current goal is to stay in the hunt for a playoff spot, wait for Quick, and bring back the core as a healthier, more in sync, unit with better balanced scoring. The big name, big pay, players are on-ice playing constantly outside their "sweetspots", their comfort zone within the Kings structure. They are constantly covering up individual mistakes AND trying to do too much. Second guessing, protecting against error rather then playing for dominance. They are not playing their zones, structurally or instinctively. Again, not a good environment, for rookies.
Now, it's a rough ride. This group and certain players seem to have hit a hurricane of poor scoring touch, bad bounces, and way too many posts. Statistics predict that will turn around. These players, this team, when in sync, can still win at every level of playoff competition and beat any team if Quick returns rested and gets sharp. The sad group of non-scoring players will find their touch and start moving towards their regular personal averages per game.
Should remind us of the 2012 team... out of sync on the ice until March. These issues are not the end of this group of players or King playoff games this season.
Just grit your teeth and hold on.
GKG!!!
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Kopitar was very inconsistent in 2014-15. He started off slow in 2015-16 before he picked it up. He was held scoreless in 29 games last season, and naturally the Kings record in those games was 13-14-2.
This season Kopitar has already had 22 games without a point, and this is at the mid-way point.
The Kings record in those 22 games where Kopitar is held scoreless, 8-12-2.
He didn't have a good 2014-15 season, he was excellent in 2015-16, and now we are seeing Kopitar playing the worst hockey of his career right before he hits 30 in August.
His PPG over the last 15 games isn't enough for me to suddenly think he's going to pick up the pace. He was invisible again last night. For a player of his stature, he needs to do more to help the team. They're in the hole they're in largely because of his struggles. Kopitar failing to produce is a reason why this team's offense is in the toilet.
Can you not admit that he's not doing enough offensively to help the team win? And if it is the fault of him having linemates who can't finish, then isn't he relying too much on his linemates? Or did Lombardi screw up by not getting him some help? It is evident that Kopitar is missing a winger like Lucic or Williams.
He keeps relying on his same old, tired tactics of taking the puck wide, around the net, and dishing a pass to a point man for a harmless shot. His game has become predictable. These are things that concern me about his game. He's grown stale, just as the offense has grown stale.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Absolutely. But that's a far cry from a trend.
I was hoping that having ****** linemates would force him to shoot more honestly but that hasn't happened. But I saw encouraging things before he got sick and I saw SOME encouraging things last night even if him and Gabby couldn't finish. Definite signs of life that weren't there right after his return.
I know results matter and that's a long way from saying he's turning his season around offensively, but it's trending in the right direction imo.
Can we start an all inclusive "Kopitar Sucks" thread to contain most of the *****ing to one place?
deeshamrock
Registered User
It might not be realistic to think at 30 and beyond, he will be able to produce the same way he did in the past . In most cases, that is just the law of gravity, esp in Sutter's system. Kopi wasn't setting the world on fire prior to whatever injury he has/had. Going forward, 30 and beyond, 60 pts (give or take 10%) should be in his range, given the drop in percentage from the first 5 years (.98) to the last 5 (.87). And what is usually normal (points per minutes played) for most player leaving their prime (25 to 29) .
But noone can read the future. Is he worth 10 M, no, of course not, esp in the last 5 years or so, and given what TT and TP will get and what is left for Drew Doughty?
Props to Kopi for putting that number up and drawing a line in the sand and not crossing it. He got his homerun deal.
DL knew the score and the risks involved. But he has to provide Kopi with better wingers, younger speed and skilled players that will ease the burden .
But 60 pts or so is where I see him next year, if he plays all 82.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
Kopitar
Career average goals, 25.2
Since 12-13, 330 games, 84 goals, 20.9 per 82
Since 13-14, 283 games, 74 goals, 21.4
Since 14-15, 201 games, 45 goals, 18.4
Since 15-16, 122 games, 29 goals, 19.5
This year, 41 games, 4 goals, 8.0
He had 10 in 47 games in 2013, which is 17 in 82 games. That was the first year where he was under 25 since his rookie year. This year has obviously been an odd year, where his numbers are way down, but. He went from 25 in 11-12, to say 17, up to 29, down to 16, up to 25, and now he's got the wrist, but it's these wild swings the last number of years. If he follows that trend, he'll get 27 next year, but in 3 of the last 5 years, he's struggled to score for one reason or another.
Like the rest of the team, maybe Kopitar should be a wait and see situation every year now. Not sure if you'll get the 25+ goal guy, or the one that fights to get 15.
Career average goals, 25.2
Since 12-13, 330 games, 84 goals, 20.9 per 82
Since 13-14, 283 games, 74 goals, 21.4
Since 14-15, 201 games, 45 goals, 18.4
Since 15-16, 122 games, 29 goals, 19.5
This year, 41 games, 4 goals, 8.0
He had 10 in 47 games in 2013, which is 17 in 82 games. That was the first year where he was under 25 since his rookie year. This year has obviously been an odd year, where his numbers are way down, but. He went from 25 in 11-12, to say 17, up to 29, down to 16, up to 25, and now he's got the wrist, but it's these wild swings the last number of years. If he follows that trend, he'll get 27 next year, but in 3 of the last 5 years, he's struggled to score for one reason or another.
Like the rest of the team, maybe Kopitar should be a wait and see situation every year now. Not sure if you'll get the 25+ goal guy, or the one that fights to get 15.
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