He talks bout not having to re-create and then talks about re-creating
"OK. we’ve got to re-create our version of winning."
"OK. we’ve got to re-create our version of winning."
Kings Article: LA Kings GM Dean Lombardi: “You Can’t Re-Create, You Have To Re-Inventâ€
- Thread starter FrozenRoyalty
- Start date
ya it definitely sounds like DL wants to take a year or two where the team may not be cup contenders but still competitive in order to retool, where as sutter sounds like he may want to be a cap team and go for the cup next year too
loads and loads of speculation with really nothing of substance. dont think too hard about it
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Funny that my two favorite teams (Kings/Carolina Panthers) feature two forward-thinking GMs that preach resource allocation and are not afraid to make tough, unpopular decisions.
Problem is, at the moment, Gettleman of the Panthers is the only one of them that fits the description I just laid out.
DL jettisoned Vis right before his NTC kicked in, brought back Rob Blake for big-money when he was generally hated, shipped out Jack Johnson after JJ negotiated his own long-term, cap-friendly (seemingly) deal all while pontificating for years about resource allocation and how you build from the net out with wingers being the least important.
Fast forward to the present and he seems to make decisions based on loyalty/feelings (Richards primarily and the trading of top picks/prospects) that fly in the face of his asset allocation beliefs. Once never afraid of moving a fan favorite, now he seems hesitant to move anyone that helped win the Cup unless they need a new contract and are over 30 years old.
Now he has a mess on his hands.
Gettleman has come in to the Panthers with a clear direction: load up on defense (namely 300 pound stud D-Lineman) and allocate resources basically "from the net out". Newton is his Kopitar and he's locked up. Keuchly is his Doughty and he is locked up. The DT spot is his Quick and he just said "thanks but no thanks" to going long-term big money on a career Panther who many believe was the best CB in the entire league last season because "allocation of resources". Gettleman looks at CB like DL used to look at wingers and knows his CBs are going to be better if the front seven--manned by stud linebackers and DTs--is unbelievable.
Gettleman also came in and cut Steve Smith for almost no cap savings while he was still a productive player because of "culture". This would be like a Kings GM waiving anyone of the retired jerseys in the rafters while that player was still productive. Talking the best and most popular Panther in history and he told him to take a hike.
Waived long-time career Panther DeAngelo Williams the next season who went on to have a great season in Pittsburgh. Now, this season, he let go of the "best CB" in the league for absolutely nothing but more money and cap to put towards re-signing All-Pro DT Kawann Short. Who did they draft with their #1 pick this year? Another huge DT. Three starting DTs on the roster and they used the #1 on another one. Depth, four year rookie deal with a team 5th year option. Guy is playing chess while most everyone plays checkers, just like DL used to do. Guy has three straight division titles and a Super Bowl appearance while also usually receiving "hot take" draft grades at the bottom of the pack only to have the next year's re-draft rankings moving Carolina way up the board, kind of like a certain Kings GM used to do. Maybe that will all change if the Panthers actually win a Super Bowl and he gets attached to certain players but, so far, he only has the Panther's best interests in mind while, on the other hand, DL seems to have strayed from that a bit.
This comment from Gettleman today regarding Josh Norman just screamed old Lombardi to me:
“Well, I don’t want to talk for any other team,” Gettleman said. “You know, they were willing to give Josh that kind of a deal. God bless them. For us, it was a matter of resource allocation. Everybody has to make decisions for their club. I’ve said this a number of times, and I think people are probably tired of hearing me say it but I’m going to step back and make the decisions that are in the best interests of the Carolina Panthers and when you sign a player to a deal of that magnitude it’s not done in a vacuum. Nothing is done in a vacuum, every decision every General Manager makes has a domino effect and you’ve got to decide how you want your dominoes to fall.”
Need Lombardi to get back to business and stop living in the past, which he seems to have realized. Those aforementioned Gettleman moves--especially Smith--still make many Panthers fans pissed at Gettleman. Some will never forgive him and are waiting for him to fail. He is getting results though so most are doing the "In DL I Trust" treatment.
DL is going to have to make some moves that piss off the emotional heartstrings of the fan base. If the immediate result isn't an improvement, he's going to get raked over the coals. Needs to happen though and I believe it will lead to improvement over time: might be painful though just like any break-up. Hoping he gets a bit of that Gettleman DGAF attitude when it comes to some of the tenured guys on the roster.
Problem is, at the moment, Gettleman of the Panthers is the only one of them that fits the description I just laid out.
DL jettisoned Vis right before his NTC kicked in, brought back Rob Blake for big-money when he was generally hated, shipped out Jack Johnson after JJ negotiated his own long-term, cap-friendly (seemingly) deal all while pontificating for years about resource allocation and how you build from the net out with wingers being the least important.
Fast forward to the present and he seems to make decisions based on loyalty/feelings (Richards primarily and the trading of top picks/prospects) that fly in the face of his asset allocation beliefs. Once never afraid of moving a fan favorite, now he seems hesitant to move anyone that helped win the Cup unless they need a new contract and are over 30 years old.
Now he has a mess on his hands.
Gettleman has come in to the Panthers with a clear direction: load up on defense (namely 300 pound stud D-Lineman) and allocate resources basically "from the net out". Newton is his Kopitar and he's locked up. Keuchly is his Doughty and he is locked up. The DT spot is his Quick and he just said "thanks but no thanks" to going long-term big money on a career Panther who many believe was the best CB in the entire league last season because "allocation of resources". Gettleman looks at CB like DL used to look at wingers and knows his CBs are going to be better if the front seven--manned by stud linebackers and DTs--is unbelievable.
Gettleman also came in and cut Steve Smith for almost no cap savings while he was still a productive player because of "culture". This would be like a Kings GM waiving anyone of the retired jerseys in the rafters while that player was still productive. Talking the best and most popular Panther in history and he told him to take a hike.
Waived long-time career Panther DeAngelo Williams the next season who went on to have a great season in Pittsburgh. Now, this season, he let go of the "best CB" in the league for absolutely nothing but more money and cap to put towards re-signing All-Pro DT Kawann Short. Who did they draft with their #1 pick this year? Another huge DT. Three starting DTs on the roster and they used the #1 on another one. Depth, four year rookie deal with a team 5th year option. Guy is playing chess while most everyone plays checkers, just like DL used to do. Guy has three straight division titles and a Super Bowl appearance while also usually receiving "hot take" draft grades at the bottom of the pack only to have the next year's re-draft rankings moving Carolina way up the board, kind of like a certain Kings GM used to do. Maybe that will all change if the Panthers actually win a Super Bowl and he gets attached to certain players but, so far, he only has the Panther's best interests in mind while, on the other hand, DL seems to have strayed from that a bit.
This comment from Gettleman today regarding Josh Norman just screamed old Lombardi to me:
“Well, I don’t want to talk for any other team,” Gettleman said. “You know, they were willing to give Josh that kind of a deal. God bless them. For us, it was a matter of resource allocation. Everybody has to make decisions for their club. I’ve said this a number of times, and I think people are probably tired of hearing me say it but I’m going to step back and make the decisions that are in the best interests of the Carolina Panthers and when you sign a player to a deal of that magnitude it’s not done in a vacuum. Nothing is done in a vacuum, every decision every General Manager makes has a domino effect and you’ve got to decide how you want your dominoes to fall.”
Need Lombardi to get back to business and stop living in the past, which he seems to have realized. Those aforementioned Gettleman moves--especially Smith--still make many Panthers fans pissed at Gettleman. Some will never forgive him and are waiting for him to fail. He is getting results though so most are doing the "In DL I Trust" treatment.
DL is going to have to make some moves that piss off the emotional heartstrings of the fan base. If the immediate result isn't an improvement, he's going to get raked over the coals. Needs to happen though and I believe it will lead to improvement over time: might be painful though just like any break-up. Hoping he gets a bit of that Gettleman DGAF attitude when it comes to some of the tenured guys on the roster.
KingTrouty
Allons!
Great post @BigKing!
I will say that If Gettleman brought two Lombardi (haha) trophies to Charlotte, he would be given free reign to do as he pleases for as long as he pleases (within reason, a la Tom Coughlin)... Dean deserves this same amount of leeway. He has earned it. Two championships buys our patience.
It's awfully lofty to have expectations for Dean to be able to fix this completely in one offseason.
I will say that If Gettleman brought two Lombardi (haha) trophies to Charlotte, he would be given free reign to do as he pleases for as long as he pleases (within reason, a la Tom Coughlin)... Dean deserves this same amount of leeway. He has earned it. Two championships buys our patience.
It's awfully lofty to have expectations for Dean to be able to fix this completely in one offseason.
TruKingFan
Two-Time Cup Winner
And here's the other side of that coin. Still, it is clear that Dean has to make some hard and cruel decisions this summer if he wants another Cup run in the next year or two before the "suck" really comes. He still can, but time is running out. Otherwise, we'll have to sit with our two cups on either side of us and say, hey - in a few years.
KingTrouty
Allons!
I completely agree, re: Dean needing to make the hard decisions, and needing to be right. I'm definitely not saying the man gets a free pass for life, or that he can do as he pleases for as long as he pleases, results be damned. I'm an unabashed DL fanboy, but I love my Kings first.
With that said, I am patient with what ever process he chooses. I have nothing but the fullest and utmost faith in our amazing front office (not just Dean), and it will be so until it's clear that they've lost their "spark." A couple bad seasons doesn't come close to doing that for me. If we add the next year or two (like you referred to in the quote), then that would be 4 years since our last cup, and maybe that's when we can start to see if Dean is still at the top of his game or truly declining and making bad decisions.
Thrice
To Be Everywhere...
- Sep 27, 2007
- 2,129
- 2
AlphaBravo
Registered User
People on this board are way to critical of Dean Lombardi. He is a rare GM that is actually humble enough to openly admit the mistakes he makes, like being loyal to Richards and not buying him out, the first round pick he traded for Sekera, etc....
In hindsight it is easy to criticize every move he makes, but I think all of his moves at the moment were fully justified. Considering the success the Kings had in 2012, 2013 and 2014, I understand why he decided to keep Richards at the time. Also, after freaking winning the cup in 2014, how could anyone fault him for trading the first round pick to get Sekera at a time when the team was on a roll and appeared like its old self to win the cup again? I sure can't.
The problem is when Dean is humble to admit some of his mistakes, people are quick to jump on him and attack him for making these admissions. He is human being and not all of his decisions will be perfect years down the road, but I think he has done a great job every year with the information he has had. I also appreciate that he realizes that he cannot recreate the chemistry and identity we had in 2012-2014, and is doing a top down audit to recreate something new.
Also, unlike some great teams like the Caps and the Ducks who have nearly perfect lineups and can't win, I am glad that at least our weaknesses are obvious and can be fixed (lack of defenseman in second pairing and 3C). I trust Dean and believe that he has a strong plan in place to fix these holes. Otherwise, I doubt Sutter would come back.
In hindsight it is easy to criticize every move he makes, but I think all of his moves at the moment were fully justified. Considering the success the Kings had in 2012, 2013 and 2014, I understand why he decided to keep Richards at the time. Also, after freaking winning the cup in 2014, how could anyone fault him for trading the first round pick to get Sekera at a time when the team was on a roll and appeared like its old self to win the cup again? I sure can't.
The problem is when Dean is humble to admit some of his mistakes, people are quick to jump on him and attack him for making these admissions. He is human being and not all of his decisions will be perfect years down the road, but I think he has done a great job every year with the information he has had. I also appreciate that he realizes that he cannot recreate the chemistry and identity we had in 2012-2014, and is doing a top down audit to recreate something new.
Also, unlike some great teams like the Caps and the Ducks who have nearly perfect lineups and can't win, I am glad that at least our weaknesses are obvious and can be fixed (lack of defenseman in second pairing and 3C). I trust Dean and believe that he has a strong plan in place to fix these holes. Otherwise, I doubt Sutter would come back.
Butch 19
Go cart Mozart
Bandit
Registered User
It's not just a matter of leeway either. It's easy to pontificate on "what's best for the franchise" when you haven't won anything. Keeping together a two time championship team and remaining championship caliber team is a whole different animal.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
- 21,942
- 20,938
Absolutely, which is why I don't blame Lombardi for his mistakes. They are mistakes, but they are defensible.
LAKings88
First round fodder
I like that the young dmen are up now, Dowd and Kempe too.
I get Bishop in all honesty. Wish it was two weeks ago tho.
Still think some offense would be good to add no matter what Lombardi believes. Even if it is just bringing up Brodzinski.
I get Bishop in all honesty. Wish it was two weeks ago tho.
Still think some offense would be good to add no matter what Lombardi believes. Even if it is just bringing up Brodzinski.
xavi4life
Mr. Irreverent
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