OT: LA Angels of Anaheim Baseball Discussion (continued again)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,093
12,041
southern cal
Why do people still Mancrush on Dipoto so hard ? Its 2019, he hasn't been the GM in 4 years.

Because I miss winning games. Why are you content with losing? Why are you opposed with context and comparison? Attacking a person as opposed to attacking an idea is quite a cowardice stance. Please note, I'm calling the stance cowardice; not the person.
 

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,093
12,041
southern cal
Because they hate Eppler.

I hate losing.

Many fans here miss regular season BB, but hate on RC. But there are reasons behind it. No one likes playoff coach BB. If RC was winning games, then no one would dislike RC. I didn't like RC returning, but I did give him a chance to prove himself. After Bob turned the ship around quickly last year, we can all point to RC being a bad coach.

It's an odd dichotomy on HF Ducks talk and HF Angels talk. There are similarities, but posters on the Angels thread have an opposite view. The same person who said, "Finally the NBA is fun again," only states it after the Lakers started to win consistently this year and wants a Lakers & Clippers thread. The Clippers have been playoff bound for years now and the Lakers haven't seen the playoffs since 2012-13 season? Shouldn't it be a Clippers & Lakers thread title instead due to both relevancy and alphabetical order? LoL

Eppler's tenure as the Angels' GM has been a losing one when he inherited a winning team. The team just traded away 3B Cozart and his $12 mil salary, but add to add 2019's first round pick, 15th overall SS Will Wilson. What a waste of a first round pick!
 

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,093
12,041
southern cal
The reason the team was in the position it was for the last 4 years was because of Dipoto. Sort of like how the Ducks cap situation was ****ed for years after Burke left.

The recent Angels teams were a result of Dipoto's team building, or lack thereof... sort of how the '07 Ducks were largely built by Brian Murray, with Burke putting on the finishing touches. The difference between Burke and Dipoto was Burke got us a championship.

That's a very distorted revisionist history.

Under Dipoto, Arte made two moves that hurt the Angels in two consecutive seasons. 1. He signed FA 1B Pujols. 2. He FA OF Hamilton. Both of players cost the Angels first round picks because those were the rules at the time. DiPoto only had two first round picks under his tenure. Today, you don't lose first round picks in signing particular FA's. DiPoto traded for P Greinke in 2012 for a lot of capital. DiPoto's intent was to re-sign Greinke as opposed to trying to acquire a FA pitcher that would cost him a first round pick. But Arte is the owner and Arte gets what he wants - which is partly why DiPoto left the organization.

Teams need first round picks for their system to be healthy.

Now, let's look at the construction under DiPoto. He went after pitchers under his tenure. He would trade position players for pitchers. The only year the Runs Allowed hit over 700 was when Arte wanted to spend money on OF Hamilton instead of P Greinke in the 2013 off-season. (I still shiver from the four FA pitchers we got and "hoped" would work out.) The Angels had a setup man in Smith and a closer in Huston Street. DiPoto's trade brought in pitchers Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, and Santiago.

DiPoto had a winning team when he quite halfway through the 2015 season b/c the organization went through mgr Sosh to owner Arte to GM DiPoto. That's not how it's supposed to work.

Eppler comes in and starts trading away pitchers for positional players. The more notable ones were to acquire Simba and J-Up. Between 2015 and 2016, there were four changes in the position players at 3B, LF, C, and SS (which was a trade for Simba). Eppler didn't want to retain C Ianetta. Eppler's 2016 team was a better hitting team. The problem was he didn't address the pitching as much. You can view the chart I provided above. He didn't retain setup man Smith.

What Burke did is completely different from DiPoto. Do you know why? DiPoto left a lot of talent behind along with prospects. Eppler used the pitching prospects for positional players. Eppler relied a lot on the pitchers DiPoto acquired without trying to restock the system, which also includes P Middleton and P Suarez.

Eppler is working with the same budget DiPoto was working with, but this time the front office organization goes from GM to mgr and owner. It's four years now. The team was able to afford Simba, the posting and acquisition of Ohtani, paying for Cozart along with J-up. Last year, Eppler spent millions on Cahill and Harvey. The excuse you're giving is shameful. The Angels used their 2019 first round pick as a trade incentive package to salary dump 3B Cozart, neither was a DiPoto transaction.

Now, DiPoto took over a bad situation in Seattle with a weak system. How did Dipoto make that team have a record over .500 twice in his first three years there? He saw the makeup of the system and decided to do something completely different - he revamped his MLB team. It was a tank year for the Mariners last year, but they finished 4 games behind the Angels. They boast a top farm system with a couple of prospects on the verge of MLB status.

=====
As for the Championship part, maybe you forgot that owner Arte didn't want Greinke as much as he wanted Hamilton. Also, mgr Sosh inserted Hamilton onto the playoff roster despite not playing most of the season as opposed to utilizing a fast utility player. Hamilton went 0 for 0 in the playoffs.

My, my, my, what terrible history you possess.
 

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
5,492
7,425
SoCal & Idaho
DiPoto lost a power struggle with Scioscia. Arte chose to ride with Mike rather than back his young GM. This is why I don't understand Angel fans ripping Eppler and pining for DiPoto. Your owner preferred a manager stuck in the past to his young GM.
 

Anaheim4ever

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
8,824
5,400
They got Rendon. Thats 1 job done. Now just need some pitchers: Ryu, Bumgarner, Keuchel.

Angels might be trading for Kluber. Got a bad feeling Kluber is heading downward really fast based on his age + terrible bad 2019 season for him.
 

TheGoodShepard1

Dongle Digits. Fire Newell Brown
Nov 26, 2017
9,909
14,206
I'm not a giant Eppler/Moreno supporter, but that's a hell of a turnaround to go from losing Cole to acquiring a top-10 position player in less than 24 hours.

And THIS FRANCHISE FINALLY HAS A THIRD BASEMAN! First time since Figgins left a decade ago. All the Brandon Wood/Dallas McPherson memes can now be extinguished from memory.
 

KelVarnsen

Registered User
May 2, 2010
10,057
3,859
Mission Viejo
Don't get me wrong, I like the Rendon signing but Damn. Can the Angels get a pitcher? Their starters were the worst in baseball last year if I'm not mistaken. Hopefully more moves for some starting pitchers will come. Hopefully Polk High's Al Bundy is not the only acquisition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anaheim4ever

jiggsawpuzzle35

Registered User
May 7, 2007
1,930
565
The 949
Don't get me wrong, I like the Rendon signing but Damn. Can the Angels get a pitcher? Their starters were the worst in baseball last year if I'm not mistaken. Hopefully more moves for some starting pitchers will come. Hopefully Polk High's Al Bundy is not the only acquisition.
It’s already been discussed by numerous sources. They are gonna sign a free agent pitcher and also make a trade for one. Pitching will be fixed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anaheim4ever

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
5,492
7,425
SoCal & Idaho
They got Rendon. Thats 1 job done. Now just need some pitchers: Ryu, Bumgarner, Keuchel.

Angels might be trading for Kluber. Got a bad feeling Kluber is heading downward really fast based on his age + terrible bad 2019 season for him.
Who are Angels trading for Kluber? Unless they are willing to give up Adell.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anaheim4ever

KelVarnsen

Registered User
May 2, 2010
10,057
3,859
Mission Viejo
It’s already been discussed by numerous sources. They are gonna sign a free agent pitcher and also make a trade for one. Pitching will be fixed.

Ive read the reports. I just hope it happens because otherwise the Angles are going to have to win games 12-9. Which, come to think about it, might not be a bad thing. Super exciting games!!!
 

ADHB

Registered User
Sponsor
Apr 9, 2012
3,906
4,583
Who are Angels trading for Kluber? Unless they are willing to give up Adell.
Holy miscalculation Batman. Kluber absolutely doesn’t bring back Adell. You’re not trading for a guy in his prime coming off a Cy Young award. He’s an aging pitcher coming off an injury filled season who you’re hoping still has something left in the tank. He certainly has some value, but not top 3 prospect in the game value.

If I had to guess, I’d say two young MLB-ready players would be the price for Kluber. So maybe something like Thaiss + Rengifo.
 

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,093
12,041
southern cal
DiPoto lost a power struggle with Scioscia. Arte chose to ride with Mike rather than back his young GM. This is why I don't understand Angel fans ripping Eppler and pining for DiPoto. Your owner preferred a manager stuck in the past to his young GM.

I think you have other intentions here. I liked what DiPoto did. DiPoto put the organization on blast, which is a good thing for us Angel fans. I'm not gonna jump ship. DiPoto did a great thing for the fans and put the organization back into the normal operations. Sosh actually implemented a 6-man pitching rotation! I'm happy to see that happen.

I bought into Eppler when he was first hired, because I'm not gonna jump ship. It wasn't until the middle of the third season under Eppler than I began to question what are we doing as we were under .500 for a third straight season. We got all the big names in Trout, Ohtani, J-up, and Simba, who are all positional players and still no playoffs. Eppler went uber dumpster diving last offseason with Cahill and Harvey. Then Eppler drafted a SS 15th overall in the draft... who turned out to be simply a tradeable asset to shed $12 on 3B Cozart (a FA acquisition that turned out terribly).

It's okay to criticize Eppler, especially now with four consecutive losing seasons. His philosophy isn't a winning philosophy. DiPoto's was. So far Eppler hasn't shown he's moved off of his philosophy (selected two SS in the first two rounds in this past draft; hasn't selected a pitcher in the first round in all four drafts under him). The mgr he hired last year, Ausmus, implemented everything that Eppler wanted to do and it failed miserably. Ausmus got fired and not Eppler.

You can criticize when production is bad. This is what you don't comprehend as you make a terrible statement that "you don't understand fans ripping Eppler and pining for Dipoto". I want Eppler to succeed. I was on the Eppler wagon until I realized the "emperor has no clothes". I'm ripping on Eppler because his philosophy is a losing one, which is supported by four consecutive losing seasons. But that fact escapes you often, which is concerning because that means you have an agenda as opposed to seeing what's obvious.

Of course, you do omit that I have placed part of the blame on Arte for not having a bigger budget for Eppler. Eppler doesn't think like Jerry does and Eppler needs more money the way he goes on about his philosophy and business. Eppler can't adapt.

I dunno why I bother explaining all these nuances that criticize production when you're staunch on "agenda". You can't comprehend b/c you simply don't care to comprehend. LoL Can you be happy with four consecutive losing seasons with big names such as Trout, Ohtani, Simba, and J-up? If you say yes, then I don't want to ever see you complain on any of the Duck threads.
 

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,093
12,041
southern cal
Ryu, Keuchel, Rendon and call it a offseason.

I'd add Bumgarner to the pitching mix as well as snatch up C Maldonado. We still need a catcher. I don't want to do trades because our cost is already expensive and our prospects can help ease the fiscal constraints that our owner wants to have (boo!). I just see some of our prospects leave in trades, which includes pitching prospects such as Canning.
 

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
5,492
7,425
SoCal & Idaho
Holy miscalculation Batman. Kluber absolutely doesn’t bring back Adell. You’re not trading for a guy in his prime coming off a Cy Young award. He’s an aging pitcher coming off an injury filled season who you’re hoping still has something left in the tank. He certainly has some value, but not top 3 prospect in the game value.

If I had to guess, I’d say two young MLB-ready players would be the price for Kluber. So maybe something like Thaiss + Rengifo.
I agree about Adell. But Thaiss +Rengifo isn't getting you Kluber.
 

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
5,492
7,425
SoCal & Idaho
I think you have other intentions here. I liked what DiPoto did. DiPoto put the organization on blast, which is a good thing for us Angel fans. I'm not gonna jump ship. DiPoto did a great thing for the fans and put the organization back into the normal operations. Sosh actually implemented a 6-man pitching rotation! I'm happy to see that happen.

I bought into Eppler when he was first hired, because I'm not gonna jump ship. It wasn't until the middle of the third season under Eppler than I began to question what are we doing as we were under .500 for a third straight season. We got all the big names in Trout, Ohtani, J-up, and Simba, who are all positional players and still no playoffs. Eppler went uber dumpster diving last offseason with Cahill and Harvey. Then Eppler drafted a SS 15th overall in the draft... who turned out to be simply a tradeable asset to shed $12 on 3B Cozart (a FA acquisition that turned out terribly).

It's okay to criticize Eppler, especially now with four consecutive losing seasons. His philosophy isn't a winning philosophy. DiPoto's was. So far Eppler hasn't shown he's moved off of his philosophy (selected two SS in the first two rounds in this past draft; hasn't selected a pitcher in the first round in all four drafts under him). The mgr he hired last year, Ausmus, implemented everything that Eppler wanted to do and it failed miserably. Ausmus got fired and not Eppler.

You can criticize when production is bad. This is what you don't comprehend as you make a terrible statement that "you don't understand fans ripping Eppler and pining for Dipoto". I want Eppler to succeed. I was on the Eppler wagon until I realized the "emperor has no clothes". I'm ripping on Eppler because his philosophy is a losing one, which is supported by four consecutive losing seasons. But that fact escapes you often, which is concerning because that means you have an agenda as opposed to seeing what's obvious.

Of course, you do omit that I have placed part of the blame on Arte for not having a bigger budget for Eppler. Eppler doesn't think like Jerry does and Eppler needs more money the way he goes on about his philosophy and business. Eppler can't adapt.

I dunno why I bother explaining all these nuances that criticize production when you're staunch on "agenda". You can't comprehend b/c you simply don't care to comprehend. LoL Can you be happy with four consecutive losing seasons with big names such as Trout, Ohtani, Simba, and J-up? If you say yes, then I don't want to ever see you complain on any of the Duck threads.
Again, I'm not an Angel fan. I don't have an agenda. I'm just puzzled how you compare Eppler to DiPoto endlessly, when DiPoto bailed on your organization because Arte wouldn't support him. I never said DiPoto didn't do a good job. Eppler's days are probably numbered now with the hiring of LaRussa and Maddon. Not to mention the Skaggs investigation hanging over his head.
 

ADHB

Registered User
Sponsor
Apr 9, 2012
3,906
4,583
I agree about Adell. But Thaiss +Rengifo isn't getting you Kluber.
This is what Jeff Fletcher wrote:

"The guy who covers the Indians doesn’t think they’d need a top prospect. He thinks they feel they have enough pitching without him and if they unload his salary they can keep Lindor for longer.

I wrote in my story the Indians have had interest in Rengifo in the past. Given that Rendon’s acquisition makes him available, it seems like that may be who the Angels would want to give up (plus a second lesser piece, I assume). The Indians may want more."

So, yes Rengifo + Thaiss would be in the ballpark.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anaheim4ever

Anaheim4ever

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
8,824
5,400
This is what Jeff Fletcher wrote:

"The guy who covers the Indians doesn’t think they’d need a top prospect. He thinks they feel they have enough pitching without him and if they unload his salary they can keep Lindor for longer.

I wrote in my story the Indians have had interest in Rengifo in the past. Given that Rendon’s acquisition makes him available, it seems like that may be who the Angels would want to give up (plus a second lesser piece, I assume). The Indians may want more."

So, yes Rengifo + Thaiss would be in the ballpark.

I agree because there is big red flags with Kluber, Indians want to dump him after a season where he declined & was injured, he's also 33 and turns 34 on April 10th 2020.
I'd rather gamble on Bumgarner (not even 30 yet) + Ryu & Keuchel who are also under 33.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ADHB

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
5,492
7,425
SoCal & Idaho
This is what Jeff Fletcher wrote:

"The guy who covers the Indians doesn’t think they’d need a top prospect. He thinks they feel they have enough pitching without him and if they unload his salary they can keep Lindor for longer.

I wrote in my story the Indians have had interest in Rengifo in the past. Given that Rendon’s acquisition makes him available, it seems like that may be who the Angels would want to give up (plus a second lesser piece, I assume). The Indians may want more."

So, yes Rengifo + Thaiss would be in the ballpark.
If Fletcher is correct, Angels should have done this deal yesterday.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ADHB

ADHB

Registered User
Sponsor
Apr 9, 2012
3,906
4,583
If Fletcher is correct, Angels should have done this deal yesterday.
Fletcher has since clarified that he thinks the asking price from what he’s heard is either Sandoval or Rengifo, plus Deveaux. That seems too easy and should have been done if that’s the case.
 

Anaheim4ever

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
8,824
5,400
FFS they need to sign some pitchers.....Bumgarner signing with the rebuilding Arizona (who traded Greinke & Goldschmidt not long ago).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hockey Duckie

duxfan1101

Registered User
Sep 20, 2014
11,345
17,021
California
They pretty much have to sign 1 of Keuchel/Ryu at this point. And even if they get 1 of them, they still need at least one more reliable starter via free agency (Miley, Teheran, Gonzalez, etc.) or trade (Ray, Boyd, etc.).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->