OT: LA Angels of Anaheim Baseball Discussion (continued again)

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Oct 18, 2011
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I'm ****ing SICK!!! Another year with a nice team, but a dubious rotation and AS USUAL the worst BLOWPEN in the entire League: 15 ****ing games lost because our bullpen and manager suck ass. I feel SO sorry for Trout and now Ohtani too, forced to waste their best years in a lousy team like this. Get rid of Scioscia once and for all, it will be a start if anything else...
Honestly I feel like the bullpen blowing games left and right took the air out of the team, then the injuries came and they're mediocre now. Eppler did a good job in most areas but he completely failed with the bp
 

Bender66

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Oct 4, 2008
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It's crazy how a team with Trout, Ohtani, and Simmons can be so mediocre.

Because "someone" wouldn't slot Sho-time into the 4th slot to protect Trout until the most recent road trip. That only happened when the AARP man and Justin "how do I hit a fastball?" Upton both got hurt .... Results speak for themselves i think. Teams are less likely to intentional walk Trout if they know Ohtani is going to pump the ball into the bleachers every time.

Maybe they should tear Justin Upton's UCL as well, maybe it'll fix the hole in his swing...
 
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Sean Garrity

Quack Quack Quack!
Dec 25, 2007
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Because "someone" wouldn't slot Sho-time into the 4th slot to protect Trout until the most recent road trip. That only happened when the AARP man and Justin "how do I hit a fastball?" Upton both got hurt .... Results speak for themselves i think. Teams are less likely to intentional walk Trout if they know Ohtani is going to pump the ball into the bleachers every time.

Maybe they should tear Justin Upton's UCL as well, maybe it'll fix the hole in his swing...

It also would make it R-L-R through the heart of the order, which is more difficult to matchup against. Hell, hit them 2-3-4 for all I care.
 

Hockey Duckie

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Jul 25, 2003
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So far Eppler has been able to rebuild a completely barren talent roster in what, like 2 years? I think he will figure out a way to get a starting pitcher he has done an incredible job, while I feel like DiPoto got a raw deal, Eppler has come in and done a better job imo...

A year ago people were saying the Angels had to trade Mike Trout, and now we are seeing why you do NOT do that, you find a GM who can bring in and identify talent to surround him with

Only the NY Media was pushing to Trout to be traded away from the Angels.

As for Eppler, he's done a great deal to add talent to our roster, but are the results there? (Dipoto was manager from 2012 - 2015 seasons. Billy Eppler is manager from 2016 - present)

Year... Win PCT
2012...... 0.549
2013...... 0.481
2014...... 0.605
2015...... 0.525* (DiPoto left midway through the season, but those are all/most of the players on the field for the season.)
---------------------
2016...... 0.457
2017...... 0.494
2018...... 0.494

While I feel the defensive side of the ball is far better talented under Eppler, the production was better under DiPoto. Eppler took over what DiPoto had accrued and has yet to break over .500.

DiPoto liked building from the mound out. Eppler is the opposite, as he traded away several arms to acquire players. One cannot say Eppler has produced better than DiPoto because the numbers do not support it.

So what has Dipoto done in Seattle (2016 - present)

Year... Win PCT
2015...... 0..469 (I put this in as a reference to what the Mariners were like before DiPoto.)
---------------------
2016...... 0.531
2017...... 0.481
2018...... 0.549

DiPoto has already helped the Mariners reach over .500 twice in the same span of Eppler.

We can now properly reflect and say that DiPoto was a better GM than Eppler. Sosh is now not being retained, but it's five years too late. Sosh cost the Angels DiPoto.

The starting pitchers this past year for the Angels
Heaney
Skaggs
Tropeano
Pena

are just a few that were acquired by DiPoto. Relief pitcher Middleton was under DiPoto.

In 2018, the Angels had the second most Blown Saves metric at 26 blown saves. Maybe DiPoto was onto something when he focused on pitching and closers such as Houston Street and Joe Smith combo.

I really like what Eppler has accrued, but someone in HalosHeaven pointed out that DiPoto's record has been better than Eppler's record under the Angels, as well as away from the Angels. I can't really agree that Eppler has been producing, but rather mis-producing, especially when compared to DiPoto. I just hope Eppler will actually focus on pitchers now in year four. Eppler did trade for Simmons, at the expense of P Sean Newcombe. In the NL rankings, Newcombe ranks 18th in ERA and 35th against the whole league.
 

Anaheim4ever

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Jun 15, 2017
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Only the NY Media was pushing to Trout to be traded away from the Angels.

As for Eppler, he's done a great deal to add talent to our roster, but are the results there? (Dipoto was manager from 2012 - 2015 seasons. Billy Eppler is manager from 2016 - present)

Year... Win PCT
2012...... 0.549
2013...... 0.481
2014...... 0.605
2015...... 0.525* (DiPoto left midway through the season, but those are all/most of the players on the field for the season.)
---------------------
2016...... 0.457
2017...... 0.494
2018...... 0.494

While I feel the defensive side of the ball is far better talented under Eppler, the production was better under DiPoto. Eppler took over what DiPoto had accrued and has yet to break over .500.

DiPoto liked building from the mound out. Eppler is the opposite, as he traded away several arms to acquire players. One cannot say Eppler has produced better than DiPoto because the numbers do not support it.

So what has Dipoto done in Seattle (2016 - present)

Year... Win PCT
2015...... 0..469 (I put this in as a reference to what the Mariners were like before DiPoto.)
---------------------
2016...... 0.531
2017...... 0.481
2018...... 0.549

DiPoto has already helped the Mariners reach over .500 twice in the same span of Eppler.

We can now properly reflect and say that DiPoto was a better GM than Eppler. Sosh is now not being retained, but it's five years too late. Sosh cost the Angels DiPoto.

The starting pitchers this past year for the Angels
Heaney
Skaggs
Tropeano
Pena

are just a few that were acquired by DiPoto. Relief pitcher Middleton was under DiPoto.

In 2018, the Angels had the second most Blown Saves metric at 26 blown saves. Maybe DiPoto was onto something when he focused on pitching and closers such as Houston Street and Joe Smith combo.

I really like what Eppler has accrued, but someone in HalosHeaven pointed out that DiPoto's record has been better than Eppler's record under the Angels, as well as away from the Angels. I can't really agree that Eppler has been producing, but rather mis-producing, especially when compared to DiPoto. I just hope Eppler will actually focus on pitchers now in year four. Eppler did trade for Simmons, at the expense of P Sean Newcombe. In the NL rankings, Newcombe ranks 18th in ERA and 35th against the whole league.
Newcombe has a extremely high walk rate, has a 4.14 FIP suggesting his ERA should have been over 4.0 & has only a 1.9 WAR this season.
In terms of value Simmons trade is still a massive win for the Angels & Briceno was part of the trade too who's provided a WAR of 0.4

When DiPoto left the Angels the farm system was the worst in the entire league.
Since then Eppler has rebuilt the farm system to where it is now with trades & the guys drafted the past 3 years have been better.

The Mariners now have the worst farm system in the league, their short term success is what Dipoto pushed hard for & is gonna fall flat like it did with the Angels.
Eppler is aiming for substained success instead of a short burst of 88 wins in a single season.
 

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
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southern cal
Newcombe has a extremely high walk rate, has a 4.14 FIP suggesting his ERA should have been over 4.0 & has only a 1.9 WAR this season.
In terms of value Simmons trade is still a massive win for the Angels & Briceno was part of the trade too who's provided a WAR of 0.4

When DiPoto left the Angels the farm system was the worst in the entire league.
Since then Eppler has rebuilt the farm system to where it is now with trades & the guys drafted the past 3 years have been better.

The Mariners now have the worst farm system in the league, their short term success is what Dipoto pushed hard for & is gonna fall flat like it did with the Angels.
Eppler is aiming for substained success instead of a short burst of 88 wins in a single season.

I find the response quite disingenuous considering there are prospects now in the MLB from the DiPoto era. While the farm system was weak, it was weak before DiPoto got there. How is that possible? With the use of chronology, we can identify that the people in charge of drafting Trout and Richards were outsted by GM Tony Reagins on behest of Sosh - Sosh was running the show. Then in comes DiPoto.

Since you're a Ducks fan, then you'll love the parallelism of DiPoto and Bob Murray - they both were re-building on the fly. But there's a huge difference between the two situations, one owner was hands off and the other was hands on. Angels' owner Moreno loves the long ball. He wanted sluggers Albert Pujols and Josh Hamilton. In that process, it cost the Angels the first round pick in consecutive years. DiPoto is more of "build from the mound out". DiPoto traded for P Greinke and wanted him retained, but Moreno wanted Hambone and got Hambone. When Hambone bombed out, DiPoto was proven correct and Moreno doesn't involve himself directly with baseball operations. Essentially, if we would have kept Greinke, then those assets in the trade for Greinke would have substance AND we keep a first round pick.

Now, it appears you're in love with the farm system more than the Major League Club production. But DiPoto was addressing both simultaneously, but not to your liking and also with ignorance of not having a first round pick for two consecutive seasons due to owner involvement. Also, you're n3glecting the young, starting pitchers the Angels do have and are employing. They're here because of DiPoto. And the reason why Eppler can nab some talent via trades is because he traded away more pitching prospects.

Here's what you don't know - I loved the Simmons trade, but also knew it was costly. Eppler stole the best defensive player in the league. We already have the best player in the league in Trout. Then Eppler was able to snatch away two-way threat Ohtani from everyone (not really, we were the only choice under Ohtani's demands, but Eppler put in work years ago when he was with the Yankees scouting him in Japan). These moves need to bring wins. Have they? Here's your repsonse:

Eppler is aiming for substained success instead of a short burst of 88 wins in a single season.

Eppler has yet to cross the .500 threshold in his three years as GM. The only thing Eppler's sustained is being under .500. That should be significant to you b/c I was all in the Eppler wagon until someone posted results between Eppler and DiPoto in an Angels blog this year. It made me do an about face. I shared with you the winning percentages, but you neglect them. Instead, you're "hoping" for success. Hope isn't a strategy. And if Eppler doesn't start acquiring pitching, in all phases, then his strategy has proven to be an under .500 team.

Dipoto's 4 years with the Angels: Over .500 three out of four years
DiPoto's 3 years with the Mariners: Over .500 two out of the three years
Eppler's 3 years with the Angels: Over .500 ZERO out of three years

Eppler inherited a team what was over .500 in two previous, consecutive seasons.

Maybe I should use actual Wins instead of winning pct b/c I don't think you comprehend your statement.

Angels (Dipoto)
Year.... Wins

2012...... 89
2013....... 78 (that was the 4 FA pitcher failure, lol)
2014....... 98
2015........ 85

Angels (Eppler)
Year.... Wins

2016...... 74
2017....... 80
2018....... 80

Mariners (Dipoto)
Year.... Wins

2016...... 86
2017....... 78
2018....... 89

I hated seeing DiPoto go b/c he exposed how bad our organization was run. I was loving was Eppler was doing in accruing GOATS in Trout, Simmons (Simba), and Ohtani. But take a step back and reflect and you have to wonder if flash is better than foundation? As of right now, the answer is no. Where would the Angels be right now if they kept DiPoto?

Blown Saves Stats (Angels)
2018......... 26 ............. 57% (27th best out of 30 teams)

I can't reiterate this. That's all on Eppler for not having talent on the backend in his third season as GM of the Angels. Since I'm an Angels fan, I'm pulling for Eppler to fix our woes. But I won't be blaming DiPoto for anything bad b/c he left behind a plethora of assets for Eppler to trade away, which includes trading for Simba, while posting up 0ver .500 records. If Eppler doesn't get the Angels over the .500 hump, then maybe we need to start questioning if he's the correct GM for the Angels.
 

KyleJRM

Registered User
Jun 6, 2007
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North Dakota
I'd be really wary of measuring organizations or executives by the farm system rankings at a snapshot in time.

Farm systems are cyclical. They move prospects to the upper minors and get ranked highly. They graduate those guys to the majors and get dropped. As Chicago (not technically but really) GM Theo Epstein said about his team dropping from the No. 1 farm system to the low 20s in 2017: "All our top prospects are playing in the majors and have rings."

Look at how consistently an organization promotes prospects over a long period, not just where the BA franchise rankings put them at any given year.
 

Anaheim4ever

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
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Eppler has a long term plan in place, its too early to say he isn't the right GM.
Part of being able to make trades is that you have assets to trade, not having good enough prospects limits can limit ur ability to make trades yet he managed to get Simmons anyways with what prospects they had. They got Upton thru a trade so they didn't lose a draft pick, he's produced better than Hamliton ever did.

Also unless ur making the playoffs, winning % doesn't mean a whole lot, considering the injuries the Angels dealt with i'd say its encouraging where they finished.
4 of the top teams in the AL have gotten where they are in part due to their farm systems: RedSox, Yankees, Astros & Athletics where they keep having players they can promote.
 

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
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Very difficult when you have an owner causing you to make horrible free agent signings and a manager who is stuck in the past. Seems like Moreno has finally stopped drinking the Scioscia Kool-aid and Eppler will be able to move forward.
 

Anaheim4ever

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
8,851
5,421
Very difficult when you have an owner causing you to make horrible free agent signings and a manager who is stuck in the past. Seems like Moreno has finally stopped drinking the Scioscia Kool-aid and Eppler will be able to move forward.
Eric Chavez is one of the candidates to replace Scioscia.
Since Moreno has always been a guy who will open the bank for a Latino player, a Latino manager is something that could have helped him to realize Scioscia's days as manager are over.
Like Scioscia, Chavez playing days were on a rival californian team.
 

Bender66

Send in the clowns
Oct 4, 2008
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SoCal
Then tell Arte to open his checkbook. He seems to like burning money in the form of Albert Pujols' contract, so whats another couple hundred million to renovate a stadium?
 
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