Value of: Kyle Turris and Craig Smith

[Captain Mountain]

Smith is a rental, so you'd basically be looking at a standard rental package for him (2nd+?) or another rental that fits Nashville's needs better. And its unlikely that trade materializes anytime soon.

Turris needs a lot more time tosee if he can re-establish value before Nashville can use him as an asset to get something they'd want.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

To name a few just going back to June here:

Anisimov for Zack smith
Soderberg for connauton and a third
Niskanen for gudas

Those aren't the same.

Anisimov for Smith were a swap of bad contracts of the same term.

Soderberg had 2 years left, not 5 like Turris currently has.

Niskanen had 2 years left only, Gudas had 1 year left which subsidized Niskanen's cap hit.

None of these are comparable contracts and a good chunk of those are contract swaps. I feel I've been clear with what I am trying to say. Contracts like the one Turris is on are very difficult if not impossible to move without taking back a comparable contract. I am not saying Turris cannot be traded, but if he is traded it will look like the Lucic for Neal trade or the Horton for Clarkson trade.

 

[TK]

Hayes is 3 years younger than Turris.

Hayes is not an ectomorph (which would raise huge redflags about long term durability).

Hayes has never had a season after developing as bad as the seasons Turris has had with Nashville.

Hayes was a big player who became a UFA at the right time when a team filled with big brutes just won the cup. That also upped his value. It is a copy cat league, big players are coveted.

There's not anything more I can say. Find me a player with term, who is signed into their mid 30s, who has had as great of a decline as Turris. Then find me one who has been traded without it being a contract swap. Very simple task.

You will not be able to.

Seasons? Last year was a bad and injury plagued year. The year before he had 42 in 65. Not amazing, but far from bad. 53 point pace, and with less than ideal linemates.

 

[BigFatCat999]

As of now, the Preds needs are 3rd pairing RHD & 3rd line LW. The 3rd pairing is not that great.

 

[maplepred]

Those aren't the same.

Anisimov for Smith were a swap of bad contracts of the same term.

Soderberg had 2 years left, not 5 like Turris currently has.

Niskanen had 2 years left only, Gudas had 1 year left which subsidized Niskanen's cap hit.

None of these are comparable contracts and a good chunk of those are contract swaps. I feel I've been clear with what I am trying to say. Contracts like the one Turris is on are very difficult if not impossible to move without taking back a comparable contract. I am not saying Turris cannot be traded, but if he is traded it will look like the Lucic for Neal trade or the Horton for Clarkson trade.

We will agree to disagree. After turris shows that last season was a one off and he is still a 50 plus point player he has been most of his career I’m sure we will have lots of takers willing to pay. Not too worried about having to move him if need be.

 

[maplepred]

As of now, the Preds needs are 3rd pairing RHD & 3rd line LW. The 3rd pairing is not that great.

I agree with the third pairing, we could use a left and right dman for the third pair as they are all brutal options.

We need a top six winger though to play and keep up with ryjo and arvy, smith is not it at all, we have lots of guys that can play third line winger though like Grimaldi, jarnkrok, Watson, Carr etc. That is not a need imo.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

I actually wouldn’t get rid of neither of them. Why would you? We’re trying win the cup. Trade deadline well have some cap space to go after a good player if we need it. We’re only 4 games in and our offense is looking pretty damn good.

 

[Soundgarden]

Yeah, this doesn't really make sense. We need a winger? Do we? So we get rid of a 20 goal scoring winger, why? Smith has a year left on his contract, he'll return a pick or a similar player.
Turris has been good, maybe last year was all injury related. We'll need the depth in the playoffs, remember when Freddy Gaudreau was our best center in the finals?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

We will agree to disagree. After turris shows that last season was a one off and he is still a 50 plus point player he has been most of his career I’m sure we will have lots of takers willing to pay. Not too worried about having to move him if need be.

Caveat: Turris is a 50-pt player... IF... you give give him at least modest offensive opportunity. He needs basically 2nd line utilization, say 16 mins a night, at least 2nd unit PP time, and some half-decent wingers (he was ok for a 50-pt pace with Fiala and Smith, so we're not talking Stone or Hoffman here - but he does need at least some decent players).

He wasn't a 50pt player last year because he broke his foot twice and tried to play with it at times and couldn't do anything and got shuffled back in the lineup.

This year he is healthy and looks like his normal self again. I don't doubt he'd put up his 50ish pts if he was playing 2nd line with Fiala and Smith again. But now that we have Duchene... if he plays 12 mins a night with lesser linemates and no PP time, he is not going to get 50 pts. He doesn't carry things on his own. The optics from that are probably just going to feed into this "decline" myth. In reality, there's no decline. But I doubt he'll produce this year, and people are not going to want him just looking at the numbers he puts up.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I agree with the third pairing, we could use a left and right dman for the third pair as they are all brutal options.

We need a top six winger though to play and keep up with ryjo and arvy, smith is not it at all, we have lots of guys that can play third line winger though like Grimaldi, jarnkrok, Watson, Carr etc. That is not a need imo.

The thing to me is still this... we need a 2nd line LW. Oooookay. We also don't have a suitable role atm for Turris to play. Yet if he has any talents, it's as an offensive producer. We have two good 3rd line centers already in Bonino and Sissons. We're worried about hurting Turris' value if he's playing 3rd (or 4th!) line minutes away from our top offensive players. So wait... why not play Turris as 2nd line LW again? Or heck, Johansen plays a pretty heavy game. Put them on the same line and let them do halfsies as center depending on the matchups, we already kind of do that with Bones and Sissons.

Turris needs to be a top-6 player, somehow, he doesn't really fit other roles. And his value will just go into the tank otherwise. And you say we have 1 opening in our top-6? I'm not a rocket surgeon, but...

 

[chethejet]

I would trade Hornqvist, Johnson and Kuhny which totals 9.6 million. Pens get Turris and Smith from the Preds. Hornqvist contract is 4 years as is JJ. But Preds get Turris off the books and can trade JJ with possible retention. Pens can trade Bjugstad or hedge for a Malkin continued injury being a killer for the Pens. Money is 34 million Nashville vs 37 million Pens. Preds get the winger they know and love and JJ who can be a serviceable 6th D.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I would trade Hornqvist, Johnson and Kuhny which totals 9.6 million. Pens get Turris and Smith from the Preds. Hornqvist contract is 4 years as is JJ. But Preds get Turris off the books and can trade JJ with possible retention. Pens can trade Bjugstad or hedge for a Malkin continued injury being a killer for the Pens. Money is 34 million Nashville vs 37 million Pens. Preds get the winger they know and love and JJ who can be a serviceable 6th D.

I would have to say... not even close. I don't think we want any dump players. We all have a soft spot for Horny in Nashville, but at his age... I'm thinking Pens get the 2 best players in this deal. And we get saddled with 2 problem contracts instead of just 1. It's not the kind of deal that remotely fits what we'd be looking for. I don't think it's necessarily wrong for fans of other teams to try to treat Turris like a dump contract. But he's just not that to us, sorry. It's a misread of our situation.

Kahun alone for Turris, say, that's the sort of thing maybe we could consider. Obviously that specifically is not a fit for Pittsburgh's cap situation, nor for many other teams either. But that's the only kind of deal I'd be looking at. Definitely not something that brings other bad contracts in house.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Both guys have value, and would each get something in separate deals, but I don't see as adding them together gets you anything all that special. Most teams aren't going to deal a 2nd line F for 2 3rd line guys. But perhaps Smith for futures, Turris in a separate deal for futures... then adding those pieces together with something else for a bonafide top 6 guy on a team that is rebuilding.

 

[chethejet]

Turris with 6 million for 5 years is hard to move and certainly the Preds made attempts after Duchene. The money has to be close in any trade and getting Turris of the books for contracts that end in 4 year vs 6 is still a decent trade off. Plus Preds can move JJ to lighten the cap as well at some point. Just thinking a way to move contracts that offer hockey as well a cap trade.

 

[SEALBound]

Kahun could be a good option.

Kahun+Jarry for Saros?

 

[BigFatCat999]

Kahun could be a good option.

Kahun+Jarry for Saros?

How...does that fit the thread and NO on Saros

 

[maplepred]

The thing to me is still this... we need a 2nd line LW. Oooookay. We also don't have a suitable role atm for Turris to play. Yet if he has any talents, it's as an offensive producer. We have two good 3rd line centers already in Bonino and Sissons. We're worried about hurting Turris' value if he's playing 3rd (or 4th!) line minutes away from our top offensive players. So wait... why not play Turris as 2nd line LW again? Or heck, Johansen plays a pretty heavy game. Put them on the same line and let them do halfsies as center depending on the matchups, we already kind of do that with Bones and Sissons.

Turris needs to be a top-6 player, somehow, he doesn't really fit other roles. And his value will just go into the tank otherwise. And you say we have 1 opening in our top-6? I'm not a rocket surgeon, but...

This is what I want to see big time! Turris was even talking about playing the wing in training camp and they let him line up with joey and arvy for some games. I think putting him in the top six on the wing is a fabulous idea.

But then smith does not produce, he will be playing with the likes of Bonino and jarnkrok?

 

[maplepred]

Yeah, this doesn't really make sense. We need a winger? Do we? So we get rid of a 20 goal scoring winger, why? Smith has a year left on his contract, he'll return a pick or a similar player.
Turris has been good, maybe last year was all injury related. We'll need the depth in the playoffs, remember when Freddy Gaudreau was our best center in the finals?

Maybe putting turris in the top six on the wing is the best option and then we have a better top six and do not hurt turris value.
Smith is not really a top six winger I don’t feel, he is a really good third liner. The guy had 38 points last season, that’s not second line production. I just feel a better winger could make our top two lines complete. Smith is not the guy, and with josi and Granlund contracts he will be walking anyways I think. We can not afford him, so why not package him and upgrade for cup run?

We could even keep turris and use him to fill in if one of our big centres get hurt and in meantime can hopefully fill in as a solid top six winger. Then move smith and whatever for an upgrade. Imagine that team?! Or even move smith just for better third pairing guy and a pick, especially if turris fits in well on the second line.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

This is what I want to see big time! Turris was even talking about playing the wing in training camp and they let him line up with joey and arvy for some games. I think putting him in the top six on the wing is a fabulous idea.

But then smith does not produce, he will be playing with the likes of Bonino and jarnkrok?

Yes, but as much as I like Smith... we don't have him under contract for 4 more years after this one at $6M. I like Smith better than Turris, actually. But pragmatically speaking, we're already looking down the barrel of not retaining Smith if we decide we like Granlund better. So I think the better investment for us at this time is putting Turris in the position to succeed ahead of Smith.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Maybe putting turris in the top six on the wing is the best option and then we have a better top six and do not hurt turris value.
Smith is not really a top six winger I don’t feel, he is a really good third liner. The guy had 38 points last season, that’s not second line production. I just feel a better winger could make our top two lines complete. Smith is not the guy, and with josi and Granlund contracts he will be walking anyways I think. We can not afford him, so why not package him and upgrade for cup run?

We could even keep turris and use him to fill in if one of our big centres get hurt and in meantime can hopefully fill in as a solid top six winger. Then move smith and whatever for an upgrade. Imagine that team?! Or even move smith just for better third pairing guy and a pick, especially if turris fits in well on the second line.

Some of (sum of) Smith's goal totals probably add up pretty well over the least 5 or 6 years relative to the league-wide 2nd line winger, I bet. 24, 23, 21, 12 (cough), 25, 21 goals is nothing to sneeze at. It's probably ok for your #4 winger in general. And our 2nd line has not been exactly star-studded in those years. I think he can be a 2nd line player. It's just in the present moment we are trying to make two lines with a little more pizzazz than we've seen for a while, something that is a little more than just decent or adequate, something that sizzles.

He also works hard and plays pretty well in the corners and all that. I wouldn't trade him. I'd let him walk as UFA before trading him. Even if he's relegated to 3rd line and has another 12 (cough) goal season again, I still think he's worth keeping relative to the return we might get. And then if he walks, he walks.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

I believe the rangers just signed Hayes to a deal paying significantly more than what turris makes and for longer term as well. Hayes and turris are similar age but Hayes had never even had a 50 point season. How’s that for a good example?

Turris is a better and more complete player than Hayes and makes less. Again, only one bad season my friend. Laine had a bad year last year too and look at him now.

Hayes is a Flyer.
Laine was injured.

 

[Mick Jagr]

Kahun could be a good option.

Kahun+Jarry for Saros?

Wrong thread, my friend

 

[Legionnaire11]

lol @ "The Preds can trade Turris for Johnson and then they can trade JJ later"

#1 Turris has waaaaay more value than JJ

#2 If the Pens can't trade JJ then why all of a sudden can the Preds find a taker?

 

[maplepred]

Hayes is a Flyer.
Laine was injured.

Laine was injured and that was the excuse for his bad season?
Hmmmm,

Same thing with turris last season,

 

[maplepred]

Some of (sum of) Smith's goal totals probably add up pretty well over the least 5 or 6 years relative to the league-wide 2nd line winger, I bet. 24, 23, 21, 12 (cough), 25, 21 goals is nothing to sneeze at. It's probably ok for your #4 winger in general. And our 2nd line has not been exactly star-studded in those years. I think he can be a 2nd line player. It's just in the present moment we are trying to make two lines with a little more pizzazz than we've seen for a while, something that is a little more than just decent or adequate, something that sizzles.

He also works hard and plays pretty well in the corners and all that. I wouldn't trade him. I'd let him walk as UFA before trading him. Even if he's relegated to 3rd line and has another 12 (cough) goal season again, I still think he's worth keeping relative to the return we might get. And then if he walks, he walks.

I guess we can always look at smith as our own rental. I think keeping granlund over smith is a no brainer, he is tons more talented. I really want to see turris in the top six, especially as you mentioned above that we have him for 5 more years so we want to maximize his value as much as possible. I guess we shall see what the season brings. I do think we need to find at least one capable third pair defenseman before the trade deadline.