Kyle Dubas with a hilarious chirp at training camp

[The CyNick]

What could Dubas do that you would give him credit for, and think he's a decent GM?

I mean, we could win the next 10 straight Stanley Cups, and I'm pretty sure you'll just say he lucked out signing Tavares and winning the Matthews lottery.

It depends. I don't think anyone in their right mind can say he brought in the players we have in this lineup today. Brian Burke had more to do with our current success than Dubas.

Let's leave the Tavares stuff aside. I have a POV, I would recommend reading it thoroughly. But not going to debate it again.

So all you can do is look at what he was planning as a backup plan to JT and what he will do in the future. As a backup plan, for a guy who is touted as being so forward thinking, his planned moves showed zero forward thinking and actually would have handcuffed us going forward. But those moves never happened, so he gets a pass.

His big job this summer was to ensure Nylander is locked up. So far that hasn't happened. Instead of the team talking about what a great future we have, everyone is answering questions about where's Nylander? That's not good. But still have time before Tuesday to right the ship.

The other issue is the D. I think most people thought that was the glaring hole on the team. He did absolutely nothing to address that unless you think the Swedish kid we drafted will make it out of camp and be an impact player. So he's again just relying on riding what is already here (players he didn't acquire).

He's gotta do something impactful before we can start to praise him. If he just sticks with the team Lou handed him, then he deserves no credit even if we do win multiple Cups. Now if he negotiates great long term deals for the big three, and that lets us make some other moves to address weaknesses the team, I'll be first in line to congratulate him and sing his praises. If he signs pedestrian deals for the big three and relies on Lou/Hunter acquisitions to carry the mail, how can you really praise him?

 

[The CyNick]

I'm not sure if you know this, but generally 5 players are responsible for defense. Not 2

Very true. Not sure what your point is though. Are you thinking JT will solve all our defensive problems?

Even if he does, Dubas had very little to do with acquiring him. He thought CDH was the answer on D.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Very true. Not sure what your point is though. Are you thinking JT will solve all our defensive problems?

Even if he does, Dubas had very little to do with acquiring him. He thought CDH was the answer on D.

i doubt "the answer" is the best way to put it
it would have given the Leafs a bit more depth esp. because of injuries.

saying that Dubas had very little do wo with acquiring him is so silly.
despite the factors that Tavares wanted to play here, if Dubas couldn't do his part, he doesn't sign here. saying that that part is very little is just being petty. n

 

[FalcorMulch]

I haven’t seen this posted in this thread yet but apologies if I missed it. The guy who asked the question did an AMA on /r/leafs and explained that this was taken way out of context.

He asked Dubas a tough question and Dubas was praising him for it. The context of the quote is that Dubas was saying he would make a good journalist, not that he would make a bad manager.

 

[The CyNick]

i doubt "the answer" is the best way to put it
it would have given the Leafs a bit more depth esp. because of injuries.

saying that Dubas had very little do wo with acquiring him is so silly.
despite the factors that Tavares wanted to play here, if Dubas couldn't do his part, he doesn't sign here. saying that that part is very little is just being petty. n

Try to be logical if possible. Why would I be petty towards a person I don't know?

As long as Dubas appeared to be of sound mind, his presence was largely meaningless the process. To say otherwise is absurd.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Try to be logical if possible. Why would I be petty towards a person I don't know?

As long as Dubas appeared to be of sound mind, his presence was largely meaningless the process. To say otherwise is absurd.

why you are acting petty towards a person you don't know, isn't something i've figured out - but you are.
insisting that Dubas - who is the gm and this is his job - had very little to do with getting a free agent to sign here of that calibre is ignoring so many facts. had he not done it, it's not like you would have been "well it' okay,, he barely has anything to do with the process." you'd be critiquing the fact that the Leafs hired someone like Dubas and how it cost the Leafs , Tavares.

the fact that you keep going that Dubas thought CDH was "the answer" is kind of proof of whatever he did would have been wrong or good- but nothing to do with him.

 

[The CyNick]

why you are acting petty towards a person you don't know, isn't something i've figured out - but you are.
insisting that Dubas - who is the gm and this is his job - had very little to do with getting a free agent to sign here of that calibre is ignoring so many facts. had he not done it, it's not like you would have been "well it' okay,, he barely has anything to do with the process." you'd be critiquing the fact that the Leafs hired someone like Dubas and how it cost the Leafs , Tavares.

the fact that you keep going that Dubas thought CDH was "the answer" is kind of proof of whatever he did would have been wrong or good- but nothing to do with him.

What are the facts that I'm ignoring pertaining to the JT signing. Unlike many people who try to get into a debate with me, I actually recognize your handle and consider you a reasonable contributor for the most part. However you're teetering on this one. So please share these "facts" you speak of. If it's the same tired "fact" about a throwaway line in an interview complinenting Dubas, well that would drastically lessen my regard for you.

Heres some real facts that I believe were much larger factors in getting JT to sign here. Please feel free to either disagree with these or rank any of your pro Dubas koolaid "facts" ahead of them.

#1 - his woman is from the area
#2 - the Leafs have a great young core in place that Dubas had nothing to do with acquiring
#3 - Playing for Leafs was a boyhood dream (his first post after news broke had something to do with bedsheets I believe)
#4 - Isles were a disaster which brought him to the brink
#5 - Leafs ownership is such that they allow money to be paid upfront which many other teams won't do. Again this money advantage has nothing to do with Dubas.

If you think any of those reasons are inaccurate or you think the "legend of Dubas" had a higher rank than anything I mentioned then I feel like you're in the same category as the majority of the posters on here, which is sad.

 

[Daisy Jane]

What are the facts that I'm ignoring pertaining to the JT signing. Unlike many people who try to get into a debate with me, I actually recognize your handle and consider you a reasonable contributor for the most part. However you're teetering on this one. So please share these "facts" you speak of. If it's the same tired "fact" about a throwaway line in an interview complinenting Dubas, well that would drastically lessen my regard for you.

Heres some real facts that I believe were much larger factors in getting JT to sign here. Please feel free to either disagree with these or rank any of your pro Dubas koolaid "facts" ahead of them.

#1 - his woman is from the area
#2 - the Leafs have a great young core in place that Dubas had nothing to do with acquiring
#3 - Playing for Leafs was a boyhood dream (his first post after news broke had something to do with bedsheets I believe)
#4 - Isles were a disaster which brought him to the brink
#5 - Leafs ownership is such that they allow money to be paid upfront which many other teams won't do. Again this money advantage has nothing to do with Dubas.

If you think any of those reasons are inaccurate or you think the "legend of Dubas" had a higher rank than anything I mentioned then I feel like you're in the same category as the majority of the posters on here, which is sad.

i don't believe in the "legend of Dubas."
it's his job. if it were Lou, and he did it, I'd say the same thing. he did his job. if it was Burke, i'd say the same thing, he did his job. If he didn't do it, I would have said it sucked, and moved on. John Tavares was the first high end calibre free agent to change teams in 10 years. #1, #2, #3 and #5 means crap, because

1: i'm pretty sure like the majority of hockey wives, they would have dealt with it.
2: the Islanders have been drafting relatively well as late. defense/goaltending is their issue, and with Lou there, if anything, there will be a goaltender.
4: new management commitment and ownership could have convinced him to stay (the fact that Tavares was close to Snow, despite his blunders and Weight actually hurt).
5: so could San Jose, so could the Islanders.

as the general manager it's Dubas's job to convince talent like Tavares why one through five is important, and as tavares and Dubas both pointed out, it was #2 and the commitment to the team to number 2 that was important. the same 'young core' was in place when Stamkos was available, and the Leafs completely fouled that up. I'm not blowing smoke up his ass, or falling at his feet and declaring him the king of all GMs, but i'm also not diminishing his freaking job, and him doing it well enough to convince Tavares to choose Toronto.

as i've also mentioned has Tavares (citing your 1 through 5) chose to commit to the Islanders (or San Jose) are you honestly saying you wouldn't say Dubas (citing his age, or inexperience, or both) somehow mishandled it, and had we had someone with more experience, they could have better closed the deal or sell Toronto on its merits. so you can think of me, however you want, if you know my handle as well as you claim to, you know that i'm neutral on Dubas.