Krueger.....is he actually that good of a coach?

[MightyMuffins]

I mean in all honesty..... I don't believe so. I mean he can always turn my opinion around.....but....no anytime soon. There's so much stuff that he does that is interesting but I mean since I say January his line choices have been so damn odd it's making little sense. Actually more so the thing that pisses me off more than anything is the fact he still willingly starts Hutton. I mean We KNOW what Hutton is. He will maybe string off a couple of wins that mask just how liability wise he is as a goalie but then when you see what he did against Vegas it's like "Krueger how many times will it take to see this guy is not capable". Like to start him especially if there is a slim chance to make the playoffs it just seems insane to me.

As fans we KNOW what we got in Hutton....I more so wanna see Jonas Johansson and try and develop him more until Ukko is ready in maybe 2 years. We don't know what we got in Johansson but the fact Krueger STILL starts Hutton is just annoying the hell out of me. I mean you know when he starts it's 75% chance it will be a loss. It's just something we fans know...I mean even on twitter people know.

Curious what you all think? Obviously he's not gonna be fired and will get another year but man there's so much stuff I see from him and decisions that gives me so many red flags he's a retread coach.

Click to read more...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Mannnnnnnn.... I dunno

 

[SabresGirl06]

Hey guys,
I read these forums a lot but rarely comment. This one struck me because I agree that his lines look questionable. However, I believe GMJB knew this year, we were not getting into the playoffs and with it being Krugers first year, he let him run the ship his way to get a feel for the players, and new system. It's been a while since Krugers coached and the games changed. So I think this year was a test your system, play with players etc...but get ready for next year for that push. Hence why I think GMJB isnt making very big moves.
I think one of our biggest issues, and it's been said nationally many times, is our players/coaches/gms never have long enough to gel. I honestly believe next year for Kruger is the show me what you got/learned and I'll throw in changes we both agree need to be fixed. This was NEVER the year to make the playoffs, if it happened great, but GMJB knew this team wasnt ready. Too many new acquisition all around.

 

[schpaff]

No

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Alright, I was gonna hold off on my crazy conspiracy theory, but since someone else started the thread..

I wonder if Krueger kinda purposely misplayed things to force Botts outta town. The idea first came to me when Bogo was still gettin big minutes despite being terrible- I just don’t get how players love Krueger and find him absolutely brilliant, yet he can’t see how bad Bogo is. I can, however, see Botts wanting to showcase Bogo, Ralph getting frustrated knowing it’s worthless, and thus overplaying Bogo to make Botts look bad. Same with Hutton, same with the bad line combos- it almost seems like he’s tried to highlight the weaknesses in roster construction and signings. Like, has playing Skinner with Eichel really never occurred to Ralph? Either absolutely everyone is wrong about him being that smart.. or Ralph is playing 4D chess trying to get a better GM in place. I think we saw more changes when the Sabres got hot, felt the plan mighta changed a bit in the past few weeks, but for pretty much the entire middle half of the season Ralph’s decisions almost seemed intended to highlight Bott’s failings.

Crazy, I know, but then crazier things have happened. Tl;dr anecdote, but.. I worked in fast food and had a terrible manager tell me to “suggestive sell” after everything a customer ordered. If they ordered a coffee, suggest they add a muffin. Customer says no, orders a doughnut. I suggest they get six. They say no. They order a sandwich, I suggest adding hash browns. Now they’re angry. I purposefully highlighted my managers stupidity to force a change in procedure, and I did it at minimum wage as a 17 year old. Just sayin, sometimes these kinda moves happen.

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

Alright, I was gonna hold off on my crazy conspiracy theory, but since someone else started the thread..

I wonder if Krueger kinda purposely misplayed things to force Botts outta town. The idea first came to me when Bogo was still gettin big minutes despite being terrible- I just don’t get how players love Krueger and find him absolutely brilliant, yet he can’t see how bad Bogo is. I can, however, see Botts wanting to showcase Bogo, Ralph getting frustrated knowing it’s worthless, and thus overplaying Bogo to make Botts look bad. Same with Hutton, same with the bad line combos- it almost seems like he’s tried to highlight the weaknesses in roster construction and signings. Like, has playing Skinner with Eichel really never occurred to Ralph? Either absolutely everyone is wrong about him being that smart.. or Ralph is playing 4D chess trying to get a better GM in place. I think we saw more changes when the Sabres got hot, felt the plan mighta changed a bit in the past few weeks, but for pretty much the entire middle half of the season Ralph’s decisions almost seemed intended to highlight Bott’s failings.

Crazy, I know, but then crazier things have happened. Tl;dr anecdote, but.. I worked in fast food and had a terrible manager tell me to “suggestive sell” after everything a customer ordered. If they ordered a coffee, suggest they add a muffin. Customer says no, orders a doughnut. I suggest they get six. They say no. They order a sandwich, I suggest adding hash browns. Now they’re angry. I purposefully highlighted my managers stupidity to force a change in procedure, and I did it at minimum wage as a 17 year old. Just sayin, sometimes these kinda moves happen.

Fine theory, with just one small problem...

Why would the next GM keep a worthless coach with a history of making strange decisions?

If he would have had a a long history of success, then he might have been able to pull that off. As it is he is barely more than a rookie NHL HC with mediocre results to show for it.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Krueger ain't getting better than this.
He can talk a sweet game, but beyond that it's quite empty.

 

[sabremike]

Hey guys,
I read these forums a lot but rarely comment. This one struck me because I agree that his lines look questionable. However, I believe GMJB knew this year, we were not getting into the playoffs and with it being Krugers first year, he let him run the ship his way to get a feel for the players, and new system. It's been a while since Krugers coached and the games changed. So I think this year was a test your system, play with players etc...but get ready for next year for that push. Hence why I think GMJB isnt making very big moves.
I think one of our biggest issues, and it's been said nationally many times, is our players/coaches/gms never have long enough to gel. I honestly believe next year for Kruger is the show me what you got/learned and I'll throw in changes we both agree need to be fixed. This was NEVER the year to make the playoffs, if it happened great, but GMJB knew this team wasnt ready. Too many new acquisition all around.

Occam's Razor suggest that the reason this season has been a disaster is stupidity and incompetence, not some grand plan.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Fine theory, with just one small problem...

Why would the next GM keep a worthless coach with a history of making strange decisions?

If he would have had a a long history of success, then he might have been able to pull that off. As it is he is barely more than a rookie NHL HC with mediocre results to show for it.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Krueger ain't getting better than this.
He can talk a sweet game, but beyond that it's quite empty.

Because he’s likely getting a pass his first year, and if his team performs next year I doubt a GM will look back at tape and say “hey, ‘sup with the Skinner thing?”

once again, I just don’t see how Eichel and everyone rave about him, how they say he’s approachable as hell and very cerebral, yet no one has suggested some different lines, no one has suggested different usage. If Ralph has an IQ above that of your average Rob Ray then surely the thought must have occurred to him, and I’m positing a theory that’d explain his reputation as a brilliant guy and his player misusage.

Think of it this way- were the Sabres to make playoffs this year, Botts likely keeps his job, right? Even though the roster he constructed would seem flawed, even though he doesn’t seem great at his job. But with Eichel in his prime and Dahlin approaching his, we would hopefully then be a playoff team for awhile, and Botts would still be here- so if Krueger sees what we see in Botts’ failures and knows he has the first year to mess with, knows it’s not really a contending team anyways- why not overplay Hutton, Bogo, etc? Why not highlight how the forward group really isn’t built with a particular game plan in mind? Why not slow play Dahlin, let this first year go, lose the GM, and go into what should hopefully be our playoff years with a better GM? I know, far fetched, but to me it’d explain the odd chasm between his reputation and his actual decisions. Or he’s charismatic as hell and NHLers are just easily misled.

 

[HaNotsri]

I'm not sure Kruegers gets the most out of his ability as a leader when it comes to the Sabres.

I've read up on the mechanics of feedback and it's a lot more complex than you'd think.

Feedback that makes you self-centered, feedback on complex tasks that you don't master yet, positive feedback on tedious assignments/risk management situations all have negative effect on performance.

Positive feedback works on complex tasks you ALREADY master.

Positive feedback+clear assigment+concrete goal you really want to reach leads to increased performance.

Negative feedback+task+situation you want to avoid helps reach a "baseline performance" but no overachievements.

If the goal is to abstract (dream/wish level) or the path to it is unclear feedback is basically useless.

Playoffs is probably dream-level abstract in the Sabres dictionary. They don't master the complex tasks of defending or attacking as a group. To create some kind of positive trend you'd have to start with some kind of alternate short term goals that helps the team reach some level of mastery.

Problem is that hockey is about winning/losing so you kind of end up in a demotivating loop of sucking.

I won't go in depth about it but I'd consider using an alternative feedback method called "Feedforward" (basically a technique to frame the feedback in a way that helps the receiver) and work my ass off to get achievable, motivating, goals in place.

Both feedback/goal setting goes into the transactional leadership style. It's super basic but without this in place all behaviour that corresponds with the normally highly effective transformational leadership model becomes useless fluff.

I think the completely messed up environment that the Sabres locker room must be complicates leadership basics a lot. Stuff you'd normally won't have to evaluate and work on probably needs surgeon like precision to remove all malignant behaviour and mentality.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Typical coach goes with veteran goalie who sucks

 

[Fjordy]

More and more questions are coming to Krueger. I have no problems if the new GM brings Gallant, Boudreau or Laviolette, finds 2C, top 6 RW and good backup and we have great chances of reaching the playoffs, this should be the plan.

 

[Chainshot]

I'd have to say pretty bog standard. There isn't any innovation, there isn't any attempt at finding or maximizing advantages, just roll the vets regardless of how they play.

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

Because he’s likely getting a pass his first year, and if his team performs next year I doubt a GM will look back at tape and say “hey, ‘sup with the Skinner thing?”

Didn't work well for him last time.

When he was coaching Edmonton he did so for half a season (or a full lockout season if you will). During the off-season Edmonton hired a new GM, who fired Krueger and hired "his" coach.

While some GMs may allow the current coach to stay (essentially to prolong their timeline), some GMs may want their own coach directly.

If he is as smart as you seem to think he is, one would assume that he learnt from the last time the GM who hired him got fired.

 

[OkimLom]

Didn't work well for him last time.

When he was coaching Edmonton he did so for half a season (or a full lockout season if you will). During the off-season Edmonton hired a new GM, who fired Krueger and hired "his" coach.

While some GMs may allow the current coach to stay (essentially to prolong their timeline), some GMs may want their own coach directly.

If he is as smart as you seem to think he is, one would assume that he learnt from the last time the GM who hired him got fired.

to be fair, we are talking about an owner, who we shouldn’t put it past him, that would choose a head coach over a GM based on his feelings on the guy alone.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Plus Sobotka and Bogosian playing.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Didn't work well for him last time.

When he was coaching Edmonton he did so for half a season (or a full lockout season if you will). During the off-season Edmonton hired a new GM, who fired Krueger and hired "his" coach.

While some GMs may allow the current coach to stay (essentially to prolong their timeline), some GMs may want their own coach directly.

If he is as smart as you seem to think he is, one would assume that he learnt from the last time the GM who hired him got fired.

I really don’t know shit about Krueger, just relaying what every interview with an NHLer has revealed- they love him, they think he’s brilliant, and that doesn’t pair with him not seeing that Bogo is bad or that Hutton shouldn’t be starting.

You make a good point though- maybe a calculated risk and he just f***s off back to soccer or somethin if it doesn’t work out? My take is basically that he thinks Botts sucks and figures any situation would be better than performing just well enough to allow Botts to keep his job- if Botts goes maybe Krueger gains power, maybe he gets a GM he can work with, maybe he’s outta a job- all better, imo, than making a boss you don’t respect look good. Like, I’d fall on that sword because I have to make a living, I think most of us would, but Krueger has more options than that.

 

[Chainshot]

Hey guys,
I read these forums a lot but rarely comment. This one struck me because I agree that his lines look questionable. However, I believe GMJB knew this year, we were not getting into the playoffs and with it being Krugers first year, he let him run the ship his way to get a feel for the players, and new system. It's been a while since Krugers coached and the games changed. So I think this year was a test your system, play with players etc...but get ready for next year for that push. Hence why I think GMJB isnt making very big moves.
I think one of our biggest issues, and it's been said nationally many times, is our players/coaches/gms never have long enough to gel. I honestly believe next year for Kruger is the show me what you got/learned and I'll throw in changes we both agree need to be fixed. This was NEVER the year to make the playoffs, if it happened great, but GMJB knew this team wasnt ready. Too many new acquisition all around.

In a sport where the average length of time to be a coach is 2.4 years though? I don't mean to be unwelcoming, but most teams have turn-over from year to year and many seem very capable of assessing what they have quickly and moving forward. Heck, we see new coaches on teams go on serious runs (see DeBoer in Vegas) while those on talent poor teams struggle. This team is still talent poor. In those instances, seeing some measure of roster optimizing, some measure of getting more out of guys or using them in situations we can see and measure as being better is what we should want to see. Is more time really going to make Ralph less likely to put poor defensive players on the ice in a shutdown role? Is more time going to fix the PK? Is more time going to adjust the other roster holes?

And if Botterill thought this wasn't a year to make the playoffs, for someone who has operated by typical hockey conventions, he should have been selling and selling hard at the deadline and instead he bought. It seems like giving him more credit than his body of work has indicated he is due.

 

[OkimLom]

Hey guys,
I read these forums a lot but rarely comment. This one struck me because I agree that his lines look questionable. However, I believe GMJB knew this year, we were not getting into the playoffs and with it being Krugers first year, he let him run the ship his way to get a feel for the players, and new system. It's been a while since Krugers coached and the games changed. So I think this year was a test your system, play with players etc...but get ready for next year for that push. Hence why I think GMJB isnt making very big moves.
I think one of our biggest issues, and it's been said nationally many times, is our players/coaches/gms never have long enough to gel. I honestly believe next year for Kruger is the show me what you got/learned and I'll throw in changes we both agree need to be fixed. This was NEVER the year to make the playoffs, if it happened great, but GMJB knew this team wasnt ready. Too many new acquisition all around.

I too would love to believe that this level of incompetence comes with this sort of grand plan, but there are too many contradictory decisions made by this team that would defeat the purpose of any of the moves we’ve seen.

what we are seeing is a coach made for a sprint, coaching a marathon and a GM made to be an office assistant trying to be a CEO.

 

[Myllz]

I really don’t know shit about Krueger, just relaying what every interview with an NHLer has revealed- they love him, they think he’s brilliant, and that doesn’t pair with him not seeing that Bogo is bad or that Hutton shouldn’t be starting.

You make a good point though- maybe a calculated risk and he just f***s off back to soccer or somethin if it doesn’t work out? My take is basically that he thinks Botts sucks and figures any situation would be better than performing just well enough to allow Botts to keep his job- if Botts goes maybe Krueger gains power, maybe he gets a GM he can work with, maybe he’s outta a job- all better, imo, than making a boss you don’t respect look good. Like, I’d fall on that sword because I have to make a living, I think most of us would, but Krueger has more options than that.

We've heard this argument about plenty of coaches in the past. "We can't get rid of him, X, Y and Z players think he's great!" Who cares? Players liking their coach means jack if the results aren't there. I could coach the team and I'm sure the guys would love me too, doesn't mean I'm qualified or should be doing it.

 

[Bendium]

Removing Botterill completely from the equation, I think Krueger has done a great job and bad job at the same time. Some players have reacted fantastic to him and are bought in and playing the system hard. However, for all the masterful leadership he is supposed to be providing, several players have asked for trades, several others have complained about player usage in public. He does not seem to be handling those people well.

The penalty kill is worst in the league.
The powerplay has been stagnant and predictable.
There are a lot of offensive techniques and plays I see other teams doing that we don't do. Are we practicing them?
Faceoff percentage is the worst in the league.
He talks about needing so spread scoring throughout the lineup but has not once broken up Sam and Jack.
He has buried Skinner in some sort of war of wills.
Bogo was done but got played a lot anyways.
Risto and McCabe ……...
Rodriguez was no stud, but he did improve every year of his career until cratering this year in Ralphs doghouse.
The defensive pairings have been handled terribly, and Miller was right when he said mid season that they need some consistent partners to play better as a unit.

Everything above has nothing to do with Botterill, and everything to do with head coaching. He either hasn't adjusted or has been slow to adjust to the teams deficiencies.

I expect to see some coaching staff changes if these roles were compartmentalized. Otherwise, I am not confident that even a better roster plays that much better next year.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Name me a single coach that the Sabres have ever had where you agreed with all his lineup choices and line combinations. To me, that seems to be the most common complaint by every fan base in the NHL.

I sure think that this team is playing better hockey than last year or any year since this rebuild started. I see improvements in all 3 zones and a real, true buy-in from the players for the first time since Lindy Ruff.

I think Krueger has absolutely earned a shot next season (hopefully with more talent...).

 

[EichHart]

He hasn't played Skinner with Eichel all year. Skinner got his contract inflated by Eichel last year and now he's doing the same for Reinhart this year. What kind of coach does this? He has worn out his welcome for me already. He's average at the very best, and terrible at the worst.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

I like krueger and i am sick of rotating coaches. This guy at least seems to have the attention of the team and that's more than i can say for housley and bylsma. I understand and agree with a lot of the concerns regarding player usage, line combinations, ice time, etc. Where i stand right now, i don't think he is our biggest problem and i don't think he is a detriment to this team. I'd rather he have one more year than oust him before he has a more well rounded roster to work with. Assuming Botterill can put together a well rounded roster....

 

[Orange Fanta]

I don't agree with all his decisions but he his 10000x better than our last two coaches however I feel this is because they were awful and I wish krueger knew when the other teams were getting away with so much obstruction and told the guys "you know screw it goon it up vigilante justice" last night there should have been at least a fight. When your best player and one of the best in the league is being taken out of the play illegally you go after them especially since the refs forgot that they have a job, and yeah I'm a firm believer in not letting refs dictate the outcome of the game but still stop letting your guys get pushed the amount of slewfoots I saw away from the play was astonishing.

 

[Aladyyn]

He hasn't shown me anything to suggest he's a good coach and until he does I won't treat him as one.