Kronwalls hit on Kucherov MOD WARNING IN OP (Kronwall suspended for Game 7) - Part II

[ashenhigh]

You are right, thats what this is all about... jealousy. We are all jealous of a bubble team who just got eliminated in the 1st round.

You would have a point if it was just a rival team's fans making these statements but a number of posters who have little reason to hate Detroit have also said that they do not like the way Kronwall approaches a hit.

Its not about the frequency of his "big hits". Its the way they are executed.

Oh come on. Fan bases have been waiting for the downfall of Detroit for years....
"Bubble team." That's cute.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

IF the NHL calls interference against the Red Wings like they do against the rest of the NHL, Detroit doesn't sniff the playoffs.

Hard to win games playing 4 on 5 all night, or score goals when those picks are not set.

So why exactly does the NHL call it differently on Detroit than they do every other team in the league?

No one has been able to explain this great reffing conspiracy to me.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Everything you just said is an addendum to what I posted. However, you are adding words to what I quoted.


This is what I replied to, I said targeting a player who has his head down or isnt paying attention doesnt make the hit predatory. You then say that its predatory because he targets the head, which is, as I said above, an addendum to what I quoted and did not exist in my original quote.

I agree that targeting a player with his head down isn't predatory, that should be clear from my post. I am stating why in spite of that HIS behavior IS predatory. I'm not sure what your complaint is.

 

[Bedards Dad]

So why exactly does the NHL call it differently on Detroit than they do every other team in the league?

From my understand it is they figure that if they get called even a fraction of the times that they interfear it is worth it since on average teams only score on 20% of powerplays. Meaning if you interfere 10 times in a game and get call for less than half you are sitting in a pretty good spot. They just do it more and I also heard they watch tape of what and what doesn't get called often and keep it really close.

Its just a calculated risk.

 

[DFC]

So why exactly does the NHL call it differently on Detroit than they do every other team in the league?

No one has been able to explain this great reffing conspiracy to me.

There is no reffing conspiracy. Detroit/Babcock is just ahead of the curve on the fact that refs aren't calling obstruction anywhere near as tightly as they did ten years ago. People tend to think Detroit is getting away with stuff when all that's really happening is their own team isn't trying to get away with it. Some of the big western teams are too though, I think. Sooner or later the NHL will clamp down again, maybe as soon as next year, but Detroit, IMO, will continue winning because that's just what they do.

 

[Nynja*]

I agree that targeting a player with his head down isn't predatory, that should be clear from my post. I am stating why in spite of that HIS behavior IS predatory. I'm not sure what your complaint is.

Were saying the same thing and putting it in different words

 

[MarkGio]

I wonder if the suspension cost the Red Wings the series?

 

[brewski420]

From my understand it is they figure that if they get called even a fraction of the times that they interfear it is worth it since on average teams only score on 20% of powerplays. Meaning if you interfere 10 times in a game and get call for less than half you are sitting in a pretty good spot. They just do it more and I also heard they watch tape of what and what doesn't get called often and keep it really close.

Its just a calculated risk.

Seems to me it's real smart not really a risk at all. I think other teams are getting better at it. Penguins don't have a clue how to do it.

 

[IdealisticSniper]

I wonder if the suspension cost the Red Wings the series?

Ipso facto: Kronwall cost Detroit the series.

 

[dutch00]

Ipso facto: Kronwall cost Detroit the series.

Our defense played much better without him and Zidlicky tbh

 

[mrpither]

Our defense played much better without him and Zidlicky tbh

Except for them #intangibles ...

 

[CarpeNoctem]

Ipso facto: Kronwall cost Detroit the series.

Ipso fatso? Hey, you can't go around calling guys fat

 

[IdealisticSniper]

Our defense played much better without him and Zidlicky tbh

I said it before but no one wanted to listen. Kronwall was getting eaten alive by TB all series. What was possibly missed was his leadership. The on ice stuff Detroit was honestly probably better off.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

From my understand it is they figure that if they get called even a fraction of the times that they interfear it is worth it since on average teams only score on 20% of powerplays. Meaning if you interfere 10 times in a game and get call for less than half you are sitting in a pretty good spot. They just do it more and I also heard they watch tape of what and what doesn't get called often and keep it really close.

Its just a calculated risk.

you heard they watch tape of what gets called? Where exactly did you hear that?

There is no reffing conspiracy. Detroit/Babcock is just ahead of the curve on the fact that refs aren't calling obstruction anywhere near as tightly as they did ten years ago. People tend to think Detroit is getting away with stuff when all that's really happening is their own team isn't trying to get away with it. Some of the big western teams are too though, I think. Sooner or later the NHL will clamp down again, maybe as soon as next year, but Detroit, IMO, will continue winning because that's just what they do.

Ok, just so I've got this straight:

1) Babcock has figured out they're not calling interference as tightly so he has his team interfere more than most teams in the league.
2) This strategy helps Detroit win games.
3) This strategy is so obvious that people on a hockey forum can spot Detroit doing it.
4) In spite of all of this, most other teams around the league do not implement this obvious strategy that would help them win more games.

Makes sense.


The simpler explanation is:

1) All teams run interference to varying degrees. Many run as much as Detroit.
2) confirmation bias

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

I still can't believe that after all the things that went down in the first round, it was that hit that got a guy suspended. Not to mention it was their best defenceman getting suspended for game seven! I was shocked and remain shocked, it was a bizarre decision.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

It's not about the call itself, it's about double standards that make him to the only one who got suspended, whereas several other disputable plays (not restricted to this series) were unpunished. That's just another sign for the inconsistency of the ruling.

Like Ovechkin boarding Hickey.

DOPS is a joke. The NHL concluded two years ago they needed to bring back more contact and this is what we got. Meanwhile the instigator penalty which would do some actual good remains in place. This league never learns.

 

[DFC]

you heard they watch tape of what gets called? Where exactly did you hear that?



Ok, just so I've got this straight:

1) Babcock has figured out they're not calling interference as tightly so he has his team interfere more than most teams in the league.
2) This strategy helps Detroit win games.
3) This strategy is so obvious that people on a hockey forum can spot Detroit doing it.
4) In spite of all of this, most other teams around the league do not implement this obvious strategy that would help them win more games.

Makes sense.


The simpler explanation is:

1) All teams run interference to varying degrees. Many run as much as Detroit.
2) confirmation bias

On point #3, it's just known. Not just on this forum. Everyone knows Detroit plays a clutchier/grabbier game than other teams, kind of like everybody knew it about the Devils by 1995. It was brought up on HC@N a few days back and they chuckled about it because it everyone knows this is part of Detroit's game. I'm not saying they're somehow immoral for using the strategy. It's a good strategy. It's only illegal if it gets called, and it rarely gets called anymore. But if this is Detroit's reputation, it's probably their reputation for a reason. I don't see why anyone would deny it.

On point #4, obstruction is gradually coming back. Other teams are implementing it, but Detroit's simply leading the way. Somebody has to. The Dead Puck Era didn't happen over night. Teams gradually adapted. Teams are doing the same thing now as obstruction penalties decrease. Detroit is simply ahead of the curve.

 

[Nynja*]

I still can't believe that after all the things that went down in the first round, it was that hit that got a guy suspended. Not to mention it was their best defenceman getting suspended for game seven! I was shocked and remain shocked, it was a bizarre decision.

I think most people here share that sentiment. I said it in the first thread that the hit definitely deserves something in itself, but based on what else has been let go in the playoffs so far, it doesnt deserve anything.

 

[izlez]

On point #3, it's just known. Not just on this forum. Everyone knows Detroit plays a clutchier/grabbier game than other teams, kind of like everybody knew it about the Devils by 1995. It was brought up on HC@N a few days back and they chuckled about it because it everyone knows this is part of Detroit's game. I'm not saying they're somehow immoral for using the strategy. It's a good strategy. It's only illegal if it gets called, and it rarely gets called anymore. But if this is Detroit's reputation, it's probably their reputation for a reason. I don't see why anyone would deny it.

I'm sure I'm repeating things that have been said over and over, but if it's such an advantage, and everyone know's they're doing it... why doesn't every team do it?

And if there is a "ref wing" bias, why not coach your team to get 30 penalties a game by doing what the red wings do? Surely you would only have to do it for 1 or 2 games before you had enough video to show how completely unfair it is that you got 30 penalties and the "ref wings" got 0.





Or maybe, the Red Wings play within the rules that all profesional sports teams use and people look to complain. "Picks" are only a thing in basketball. But in any sport every player is entitled to their space and they always will be, there is no way around it. If you can get there before the defender and establish your space, you do it. Every team in the NFL does it. Every team in the NHL does it. If you are not doing it as much as possible in a professional sport, quite frankly, you are dumb

 

[DFC]

I'm sure I'm repeating things that have been said over and over, but if it's such an advantage, and everyone know's they're doing it... why doesn't every team do it?

And if there is a "ref wing" bias, why not coach your team to get 30 penalties a game by doing what the red wings do? Surely you would only have to do it for 1 or 2 games before you had enough video to show how completely unfair it is that you got 30 penalties and the "ref wings" got 0.





Or maybe, the Red Wings play within the rules that all profesional sports teams use and people look to complain. "Picks" are only a thing in basketball. But in any sport every player is entitled to their space and they always will be, there is no way around it. If you can get there before the defender and establish your space, you do it. Every team in the NFL does it. Every team in the NHL does it. If you are not doing it as much as possible in a professional sport, quite frankly, you are dumb

I don't think there's any bias whatsoever toward the Wings. They get away with it because refs just aren't calling the game very tightly anymore. And yes, other teams are starting to employ the same tactic. Tampa Bay started using it in Game 6 vs. the Wings, and that game looked like full blown Dead Puck Era. I suspect "subtle interference" will be a trick in TB's bag from now on.

 

[zeykshade]

I'm sure I'm repeating things that have been said over and over, but if it's such an advantage, and everyone know's they're doing it... why doesn't every team do it?

You are repeating something everyone has asked. It's a stupid question.

Not all teams have the personnel to implement it. Some teams are built for different systems. If you're the Rangers, Wild, Lightning, you "nerf" yourself if you play this style. If you know your opponent identifies your speed/skill as your greatest asset and the things they're going to have the most trouble with, why would you help out your opponent by voluntarily slowing the game down for them?

The clutchy and grabby Red Wings style does put them a man short pretty frequently and it only really works amazingly well if the team they use it against has a god awful PP. Tampa fits that bill. Had Tampa's PP been anything resembling a NHL powerplay(<8% is atrocious), they could have had more space and time at evens.

So, Babcock, team of aging quality players and a couple young skill guys + a ******** of 3rd and 4th liners implemented the exact gameplan to give them the best chances imo. Kudos. It's ****** hockey to watch(again, my opinion), but it works.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Our defense played much better without him and Zidlicky tbh

I think the performance of our defense in game 7 was anomalous.

I mean, Kindl had a FANTASTIC game for crying out loud.

 

[CanadienShark]

On the topic of bias against one team or another, I think it's ridiculous. As humans, the vast majority of us are naturally prone to bias, but I firmly the league attempts to mitigate such bias to the best of their ability. Literally every suspension or call will be met with replies of "wahh wahhh, XXXX team is hated/loved by the league... Favouritism.. *continues crying*"

Yes, they absolutely make mistakes. Mistakes that sometimes shouldn't happen. That said, have any of you made a mistake that you shouldn't have? I do. All the time. Cut these guys some slack. They're not out to get you. It's like people complaining when a cashier almost charges you a higher price. They're not trying to rip you off like you might think, 99% of the time, it's a mistake.

And wow did I ever go off on a tangent.

 

[IdealisticSniper]

RE: "Subtle Interference"

I wonder how much Detroit changes its game play style if Babcock leaves, and how it changes on whatever team he goes to.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

On point #3, it's just known. Not just on this forum. Everyone knows Detroit plays a clutchier/grabbier game than other teams, kind of like everybody knew it about the Devils by 1995. It was brought up on HC@N a few days back and they chuckled about it because it everyone knows this is part of Detroit's game. I'm not saying they're somehow immoral for using the strategy. It's a good strategy. It's only illegal if it gets called, and it rarely gets called anymore. But if this is Detroit's reputation, it's probably their reputation for a reason. I don't see why anyone would deny it.

On point #4, obstruction is gradually coming back. Other teams are implementing it, but Detroit's simply leading the way. Somebody has to. The Dead Puck Era didn't happen over night. Teams gradually adapted. Teams are doing the same thing now as obstruction penalties decrease. Detroit is simply ahead of the curve.

It's just known? That sounds an awful lot like confirmation bias.

People have been crying about Detroit's interference for years, namely Ed Olczyk. These coaches must be idiots not to adapt to a strategy that a single team has been using for years to win a lot more games.

If Detroit truly interfered significantly more than every other team in the league, it just doesn't follow that other teams haven't adopted the strategy (which they could implement fairly quickly) and there's still no explanation how the Wings manage to get away with interfering more than every other team without getting called for so many penalties it's just not worth it.