Player Discussion: Kristian Vesalainen [Update: Signed ELC]

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DEANYOUNGBLOOD17

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Taking advantage of Vesa-Laine 3 year Elc btw 2019/20 and 2021/ 2022 will be very important to the Jets durring a Cap crunch with the Laine/Connor/ Rozlo signings comming.

The Jets want him to Slide either playing next year for the Moose or in Finland. They also have to sign him to a contract with modest E.L.C. player bonus. Similiar to Rozlo or Connor btw $250-$500k....

If expansion in Seattle is delayed due to a work stoppage or arena construction we need that slide year to protect one extra fwrd slot.

A full year next year in the A.H.L would be best to aclimatize to N.A hockey and smaller rink.

It would also be a big boost to the Moose bottom line and chances of putting a playoff team on the ice again.

We should call him up from the Moose durring the Finland trip as a perk and P.R. move as well
 

BB88

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I think he is ready to be a 2C because he would likely already have amazing chemistry with our top players.

That would be a big win for Jets, Chevy could focus all his efforts on getting the defense set longterm.

Roslo would add speed to the middle and be tough to handle with Ehlers.
 

scarbrow21

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The whole thing about Vesalainen not making the team due to the org. wanting his contract to slide is not accurate. Chevy has said in an interview (don't have the link sorry) that Vesalainen will be given every opportunity to make the team in training camp this year. I take that at full face value. Sure, the team would love to have it slide in the event of an expansion happening in 21 or later but they're not banking on that. What they are banking on is winning a cup and they will ice the best roster they can. If that means Vesalainens in there because he's better then the other internal options they'll do it and either trade dano or petan or waive them. The thing they actually ARE worried about with Vesalainen and the reason I think the contract is being held up is because of exactly what someone else said...if he gets normal 1st round bonus he could earn a potential of 3.7M and THAT's what the Jets can't afford. Fitting him under the CAP this year would be ok but likely means Niku is in the AHL due to circumstance but it's next year where the 3.7M in bonus money will hurt the Jets in being able to retain Wheeler.

edit: If Morrisey gets long term deal anything above 5M then the Jets actually can't afford ANY bonus money for Vesalainen. With Niku in the AHL due to circumstance (though he should be on the Jets imo) Jets would need to shed 2M in CAP space to accomodate Vesalainen with potential bonus (again if they're max bonus and he hits them)
 
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Howard Chuck

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The whole thing about Vesalainen not making the team due to the org. wanting his contract to slide is not accurate. Chevy has said in an interview (don't have the link sorry) that Vesalainen will be given every opportunity to make the team in training camp this year. I take that at full face value. Sure, the team would love to have it slide in the event of an expansion happening in 21 or later but they're not banking on that. What they are banking on is winning a cup and they will ice the best roster they can. If that means Vesalainens in there because he's better then the other internal options they'll do it and either trade dano or petan or waive them. The thing they actually ARE worried about with Vesalainen and the reason I think the contract is being held up is because of exactly what someone else said...if he gets normal 1st round bonus he could earn a potential of 3.7M and THAT's what the Jets can't afford. Fitting him under the CAP this year would be ok but likely means Niku is in the AHL due to circumstance but it's next year where the 3.7M in bonus money will hurt the Jets in being able to retain Wheeler.

edit: If Morrisey gets long term deal anything above 5M then the Jets actually can't afford ANY bonus money for Vesalainen. With Niku in the AHL due to circumstance (though he should be on the Jets imo) Jets would need to shed 2M in CAP space to accomodate Vesalainen with potential bonus (again if they're max bonus and he hits them)

Darn those kids and their talent. Making us plan on maximum bonuses!

:)
 
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204hockey

#whiteout
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I agree, it's a great situation to be in!

A roster player became expendable due to this years waiver issues. With Armia now traded there's no sense in recreating that issue.

While it's certainly possible K-Ves cracks the line-up, he would have to have an incredible camp which places him significantly ahead of Petan & Dano.

Isn't the roster is stronger by having the forward depth that we have? Isn't allowing his contract to slide a positive thing for a team up against the cap? Aren't we a draft & develop team? Shouldn't we allow him time to develop? Should we allow our forward depth to be lost to waivers?

Let K-Ves adapt to the smaller ice surface in the AHL. If he's truly ready, the issue can be revisited then with Petan or Dano traded, rather than let go for nothing.
Good camp or bot they will start him with the Moose to get a feel for the system and speed. I can see them playing him in Finland for the mini series though and then sending him down. Hopefully he lights up the ahl and is a mid season call up
 

scarbrow21

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Feb 15, 2017
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Good camp or bot they will start him with the Moose to get a feel for the system and speed. I can see them playing him in Finland for the mini series though and then sending him down. Hopefully he lights up the ahl and is a mid season call up
Can Vesalainen sign his ELC but still go over and play in the Liiga again or does that have to be a specific clause in his contract. That could also be another hold up if he basically refuses to play in the NHL and it's Liiga or NHL or nothing
 

Gm0ney

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Oct 12, 2011
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The whole thing about Vesalainen not making the team due to the org. wanting his contract to slide is not accurate. Chevy has said in an interview (don't have the link sorry) that Vesalainen will be given every opportunity to make the team in training camp this year. I take that at full face value. Sure, the team would love to have it slide in the event of an expansion happening in 21 or later but they're not banking on that. What they are banking on is winning a cup and they will ice the best roster they can. If that means Vesalainens in there because he's better then the other internal options they'll do it and either trade dano or petan or waive them. The thing they actually ARE worried about with Vesalainen and the reason I think the contract is being held up is because of exactly what someone else said...if he gets normal 1st round bonus he could earn a potential of 3.7M and THAT's what the Jets can't afford. Fitting him under the CAP this year would be ok but likely means Niku is in the AHL due to circumstance but it's next year where the 3.7M in bonus money will hurt the Jets in being able to retain Wheeler.

edit: If Morrisey gets long term deal anything above 5M then the Jets actually can't afford ANY bonus money for Vesalainen. With Niku in the AHL due to circumstance (though he should be on the Jets imo) Jets would need to shed 2M in CAP space to accomodate Vesalainen with potential bonus (again if they're max bonus and he hits them)
What? Laine was 2nd overall and got $2.65M in performance bonuses. Vesalainen will likely get bonuses in the $200K - $500K range.
 

Ippenator

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What? Laine was 2nd overall and got $2.65M in performance bonuses. Vesalainen will likely get bonuses in the $200K - $500K range.
But didn’t Tolvanen get exactly the maximum bonuses? And he was picked even a bit after Vesalainen. Or do I just have incorrect knowledge of Tolvanen’s bonuses? Does somebody have absolutely correct info on Tolvanen’s bonuses?
 

Trilliann

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But didn’t Tolvanen get exactly the maximum bonuses? And he was picked even a bit after Vesalainen. Or do I just have incorrect knowledge of Tolvanen’s bonuses? Does somebody have absolutely correct info on Tolvanen’s bonuses?
Yes, $2,850,000, maximum bonus, same as Matthews, McDavid.. Laine's is $2,650,000


Eeli Tolvanen - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

'' usually only the #1 pick gets full bonuses, #2 a little less and so on-
Kyle Connor gets 850k, Roslovic about 200k

(edit: actually, looks like it's only $962,500 for the 1st year, and then 2.85M for the next 2 years. )
 
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Ippenator

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Yes, $2,850,000, maximum bonus, same as Matthews, McDavid.. Laine's is $2,650,000



Eeli Tolvanen - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Thanks! That’s what I thought. In this case I find it absolutely impossible that Vesalainen’s bonuses are at least much smaller than Tolvanen’s. They had pretty closely comparable seasons last season after all. Although I would rank Tolvanen’s achievements still a bit higher. But with their similar draft pick numbers and how close their seasons still were to each others, it’s pretty much daydreaming that Vesalainen would sign with bonuses of less than $2,000,000.
 
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Trilliann

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Thanks! That’s what I thought. In this case I find it absolutely impossible that Vesalainen’s bonuses are at least much smaller than Vesalainen’s. They had pretty closely comparable seasons last season after all. Although I would rank Tolvanen’s achievements still a bit higher. But with their similar draft pick numbers and how close their seasons still were to each others, it’s pretty much daydreaming that Vesalainen would sign with bonuses of less than $2,000,000.
Looks like Tolvanen is the rare exception, usually only the #1 pick gets full bonuses, and only the first few picks get 'millions', the rest get a few hundred thousands at most. Ehlers, Rantanen and both Nylanders were picked at 8-10 and they all get about 850k and so does Marner, who was #4
 

Ippenator

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Looks like Tolvanen is the rare exception, usually only the #1 pick gets full bonuses, and only the first few picks get 'millions', the rest get a few hundred thousands at most. Ehlers, Rantanen and both Nylanders were picked at 8-10 and they all get about 850k and so does Marner, who was #4
Both Vesalainen and Tolvanen were though clearly picked way too late compared to their real potential. And the great season’s that they both already had in adult leagues do most probably raise their worth when negotiating bonuses.
 

Board Bard

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Give him bonuses according to his position in the draft order. Just because Nashville threw away bonus money in desperation is no reason for the Jets to. If Vesalainen doesn't like it he can ripen in Europe. No biggie.
 
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Ippenator

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Give him bonuses according to his position in the draft order. Just because Nashville threw away bonus money in desperation is no reason for the Jets to. If Vesalainen doesn't like it he can ripen in Europe. No biggie.
This could as well be exactly what is happening right now...
 

Gm0ney

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Thanks! That’s what I thought. In this case I find it absolutely impossible that Vesalainen’s bonuses are at least much smaller than Vesalainen’s. They had pretty closely comparable seasons last season after all. Although I would rank Tolvanen’s achievements still a bit higher. But with their similar draft pick numbers and how close their seasons still were to each others, it’s pretty much daydreaming that Vesalainen would sign with bonuses of less than $2,000,000.
The Jets just won't sign him if he's asking for a $2M+ performance bonus. What's Vesalainen's leverage? Threaten to play in Europe for another year? That might help the Jets with the Seattle expansion draft, and it's not like they're hard-up for wingers.
 

Ippenator

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The Jets just won't sign him if he's asking for a $2M+ performance bonus. What's Vesalainen's leverage? Threaten to play in Europe for another year? That might help the Jets with the Seattle expansion draft, and it's not like they're hard-up for wingers.
I pretty much agree with you here. Just don't believe that he would sign for much smaller bonuses than what Tolvanen already did. Vesalainen has definitely started to mature a lot already, especially with his play. But still, make no mistake, the dude is a bit cocky even nowadays. Anyway, I personally believe that for him it would be still probably better to play the forthcoming season in the second toughest professional league in the world, which is KHL - if playing in the NHL already is truly out of the question. Then hopefully he could also get real top class games still in the spring in the Finnish national team.

I somehow find it hard to see him play for the Moose - at least during the starting season. And most probably even never, if his future development matches the high ambition that he seems to have.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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I have a question... given our coach's penchant for switching sides for wingers, where do people think that KV would wind up on the Jets? LW or RW?

That would make a difference on whether we have room for him or not.

Our coach doesn't have a penchant for switching sides for wingers. He plays them on their conventional sides for at least their first year or two before swapping them.

KV is a LH shot and plays LW in Liiga. He will play LW in the NHL.
 

BB88

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If Vesalainen is truly good enough to make the team, you'd wonder if the Jets would consider moving Perreault for other assets and some much needed cap room.

For a year or 2 I've considered Perreault as a cap move for summer 2019.

Ehlers/Laine/Roslovic/Connor/Vesalainen group get 1 more season to gain experience and the Jets to have a quality vet to make sure things go well.
 

kelsier

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I'd luv if Vesalainen had the ability to play both wings cause the idea of Laine - x - Vesalainen sounds almost too good to be true. These are huge guys and eventually the physical advantage they'd bring on the table could cause some serious havoc.
 

Howard Chuck

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Our coach doesn't have a penchant for switching sides for wingers. He plays them on their conventional sides for at least their first year or two before swapping them.

KV is a LH shot and plays LW in Liiga. He will play LW in the NHL.

I hope that means this coming season we see Laine and Ehlers back on their preferred wings.
 
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204hockey

#whiteout
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I'd luv if Vesalainen had the ability to play both wings cause the idea of Laine - x - Vesalainen sounds almost too good to be true. These are huge guys and eventually the physical advantage they'd bring on the table could cause some serious havoc.
ves has said he likes to play the left wing and laine can play the right side. need a playmaking defensivley responsible center and we got a sick line oh ya shieffele :)
 
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