Helene St. James Kris Draper on Drafting Rasmus Dahlin: "He’d change us overnight."

saska sault

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If... IF we got the 1st overall pick. Obviously we take Dahlin.. if our GM's next move was to throw 12 million at one forward that wasnt named McDavid I would lose my mind. We are rebuilding, doesnt matter if its on the fly or a complete tear down. We need to invest in youth, let the old crappy contracts expire , move some of them year by year for future assets and develop our youth. Signing Tavares for 12 mil likely means we have no supporting cast until he is over the hill. Teams wont line up to take our Abdelkaders and Helms and Neilsens so we have cap space to sign Larkin and Mantha long term....
 

kliq

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Dec 17, 2017
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If... IF we got the 1st overall pick. Obviously we take Dahlin.. if our GM's next move was to throw 12 million at one forward that wasnt named McDavid I would lose my mind. We are rebuilding, doesnt matter if its on the fly or a complete tear down. We need to invest in youth, let the old crappy contracts expire , move some of them year by year for future assets and develop our youth. Signing Tavares for 12 mil likely means we have no supporting cast until he is over the hill. Teams wont line up to take our Abdelkaders and Helms and Neilsens so we have cap space to sign Larkin and Mantha long term....

I don't doubt for a second that Holland goes for JT, and I don't doubt for a second that he goes for Karlsson next season.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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I'd hope Holland at least kicks those tires.

especially if we're picking in that 8-10 range again. It's easy to knock this team, but at some point between Holland spending to the cap every season and picking just high enough to likely get good but not great players, this team may never fall hard enough to pick top3 outside of some crazy draft day luck. Going out and snagging a Taveras or a Karlsson might be the sort of necessity to contend again that signing Suter was.
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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especially if we're picking in that 8-10 range again. It's easy to knock this team, but at some point between Holland spending to the cap every season and picking just high enough to likely get good but not great players, this team may never fall hard enough to pick top3 outside of some crazy draft day luck. Going out and snagging a Taveras or a Karlsson might be the sort of necessity to contend again that signing Suter was.
How can you afford a guy like Tavares/Karlsson if, as you say, he's "spending to the cap every season."

I mean I totally agree with you, but seems like he has to change up at least major part of his GM strategy. Either get really lean on the cap, or tank hard to get a better chance at a high pick. If he's really banking on a p>
 

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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I don't doubt for a second that Holland goes for JT, and I don't doubt for a second that he goes for Karlsson next season.

Whether or not Holland is here, those should be priorities.

I think it's highly unlikely Karlsson signs here. Or Tavares.
But give yourself a fighting chance.

Start shipping out expensive dead weight.

Keep the Nyquists and Tatars around to make things look semi attractive..

Move out Howard. Move out Helm.

Don't go crazy on the resignings of Mantha and AA and Larkin.
 

Winger98

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How can you afford a guy like Tavares/Karlsson if, as you say, he's "spending to the cap every season."

I mean I totally agree with you, but seems like he has to change up at least major part of his GM strategy. Either get really lean on the cap, or tank hard to get a better chance at a high pick. If he's really banking on a p>

Part of it depends on how high the cap goes, but some of it will get baked into Holland just replacing expiring contracts. Going into this summer we only have around $63m on the books. We have to resign some guys that will eat into that, but I think it's also something where Holland will look at it and decide to figure it out if he has to. In other words, sign Taveras first and then sort out the kids and moving whatever contracts have to be moved. In a weird way, signing someone like Taveras might be the kick in the butt for Holland making a lot of moves people have been pushing for.

Next summer we have Nyquist and Kronwall coming off the books, so there's almost $10m right there and no big RFA deals to make.

I think Holland doesn't see a downside to spending to the cap regardless of how well the team does. If they make the playoffs, fantastic, that's the goal. If they don't, they get a higher pick, allowing them to bring in more young talent.
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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Next summer we have Nyquist and Kronwall coming off the books, so there's almost $10m right there and no big RFA deals to make.
Don't we have Larkin, Mantha, AA, coming up within the next couple years? And we need a backup goalie, whether it's Mrazek or someone else. Larkin will get paid. Maybe Mantha too. He'll certainly go and try to sign a veteran defenseman to replace Kronner.
 

kliq

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Dec 17, 2017
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Whether or not Holland is here, those should be priorities.

I think it's highly unlikely Karlsson signs here. Or Tavares.
But give yourself a fighting chance.

Start shipping out expensive dead weight.

Keep the Nyquists and Tatars around to make things look semi attractive..

Move out Howard. Move out Helm.

Don't go crazy on the resignings of Mantha and AA and Larkin.

Agreed.

Signing JT would make us very strong down the middle as he would obviously take the 1C role while Larkin would stay in 2C, Z would drop to 3C a role I think he would excel in, and Glendening is a great 4C.

My gut tells me that Nielsen isnt going anywhere, reason being that IF we got JT, I think he would be part of the recruiting process. I would like to trade him, but I just don't see it happening.

Abby isnt going anywhere with that term, but I would try to move E, Howard, and Helm asap. Add in Kronwall/Nyquist going off the books, and the cap going up 3-7mil, and our cap situation becomes a lot better.
 

saska sault

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We are never getting Tavares. Leaving a potential playoff team that can offer the full 8 years for the cap max team of grinders in Detroit? They may even get more fans than us this year (that actually show up). If JT leaves long island its for a chance at Cups and we are not the first place you think of. Sad to say but teams like Toronto, Boston .. heck even Vegas, Nashville or Washington would be any easier recruitment. They at least have players other teams want, that they can move to clear cap space.
 

kliq

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Dec 17, 2017
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We are never getting Tavares. Leaving a potential playoff team that can offer the full 8 years for the cap max team of grinders in Detroit? They may even get more fans than us this year (that actually show up). If JT leaves long island its for a chance at Cups and we are not the first place you think of. Sad to say but teams like Toronto, Boston .. heck even Vegas, Nashville or Washington would be any easier recruitment. They at least have players other teams want, that they can move to clear cap space.

Really? That's just not true. Sure we have some bad contracts, there is no denying that. But in what world are Zetterberg, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Mantha, and AA just grinders? If you add JT to that top 6, and it changes everything. You take JT away from NYI, it it also changes everything. Those top 6 don't look close to as good without him.

For the record, I dont think we are going to get him, but in 2018 if an elite player becomes available in UFA and you are a team lacking elite talent that has depth, you have to make a move. The only chance I think we have of getting him, is if we actually get Dahlin, because with him Holland has a pitch.
 

saska sault

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Really? That's just not true. Sure we have some bad contracts, there is no denying that. But in what world are Zetterberg, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Mantha, and AA just grinders? If you add JT to that top 6, and it changes everything. You take JT away from NYI, it it also changes everything. Those top 6 don't look close to as good without him.

For the record, I dont think we are going to get him, but in 2018 if an elite player becomes available in UFA and you are a team lacking elite talent that has depth, you have to make a move. The only chance I think we have of getting him, is if we actually get Dahlin, because with him Holland has a pitch.

I dont believe all those players are grinders.. but good luck getting JT here at what will likely cost 12 million per year and up without moving our actual wanted contracts like Tatar and Nyquist. If we want to keep AA, Larking and Mantha and go after a huge name in free agency we would have to likely move a Tatar and or Nyquist and more to make it work cap wise long term. Thats what was i was trying to say anyways .. this team needs our Abdelkaders and Helms and Neilsens off the books to be thinking about making a run at those types of free agents.
 

kliq

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I dont believe all those players are grinders.. but good luck getting JT here at what will likely cost 12 million per year and up without moving our actual wanted contracts like Tatar and Nyquist. If we want to keep AA, Larking and Mantha and go after a huge name in free agency we would have to likely move a Tatar and or Nyquist and more to make it work cap wise long term. Thats what was i was trying to say anyways .. this team needs our Abdelkaders and Helms and Neilsens off the books to be thinking about making a run at those types of free agents.

They do definitely make it a challenge. I think if we can move just a few we should be ok, but I dont see that happening. I'm crossing my fingers that Howard/Green/Helm are moved at the deadline, though I highly doubt Helm is moved.
 

ArGarBarGar

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I do not want to get a free agent at that price. Don't think we win a cup with that kind of contract on the books.
 

kliq

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I do not want to get a free agent at that price. Don't think we win a cup with that kind of contract on the books.

With the current cap you are likely right, but every time the cap rises these contracts become more and more manageable. I remember when Crosby signed his contract, people that it was for a ridiculous amount, now it seems like a deal when you see what Toews/Kane are being paid. You would need to have a cap management specialist on staff who is very good at projecting where the cap is going. It is said to be going up 3-7 mil next year.
 

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