Confirmed with Link: Kreider extended 7 years, AAV approximately $6.5MM

Thoughts on the Kreider extension?

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duhmetreE

Blessed Bigly
Sponsor
Jan 18, 2012
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NTC the final 3 years. no-trade list 15 team.

This is a great deal. I'm hoonestly still amazed at 6.5. I thought $7M would have been a hometown discount.
 
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Ola

Registered User
Apr 10, 2004
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The buyouts after the 4th season are manageable. Worse comes to worse the Rangers can always buy Kreider out if his play really drops.

Yeah, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be:
upload_2020-2-25_19-15-19.png
 

Oscar Lindberg

Registered User
Dec 14, 2015
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CA
At this point it is what it is and I've largely moved on, and but I don't really get all that jazzed about the contract being an easy buyout after the 4th year

If you're looking to buyout a contract 3-4 years into a 7 year deal, was it even a smart decision to offer that contract in the first place?

Flame away though
 

Ola

Registered User
Apr 10, 2004
34,597
11,595
Sweden
NTC the final 3 years. no-trade list 15 team.

This is a great deal. I'm hoonestly still amazed at 6.5. I thought $7M would have been a hometown discount.

Look at the deals James Neal, Ladd, Okposo and co signed, its a pretty big discount for sure.

I am was as much in favor of dealing Kreider as anyone else. But I we should take a lot of comfort in that we are resigning one of our own players here.
 

JimmyG89

Registered User
May 1, 2010
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The losing of a NMC after the first 4 years is a serious win for them. He'll be paid all but 14M the first 4 seasons of his deal.

If it gets to the point where he needs to be moved, the cap hit minus the actual salary is a win for some teams that could be looking for help to the cap floor.

Side Bonus: Not needing to change my profile pic on here.
 

duhmetreE

Blessed Bigly
Sponsor
Jan 18, 2012
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50,738
At this point it is what it is and I've largely moved on, and but I don't really get all that jazzed about the contract being an easy buyout after the 4th year

If you're looking to buyout a contract 3-4 years into a 7 year deal, was it even a smart decision to offer that contract in the first place?

Flame away though
Yeah... no one is buying out the contract in 3-4 years.
 
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Feb 27, 2002
37,900
7,974
NYC
There are also a segment of voters who will talk themselves into it because it feels good to support the team, honestly, that's why we are fans.
Counterpoint: A segment of voters hate it because it's not the number they feel he should have settled for or he wasn't dealt for Newhook.
 
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JT Kreider

FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Dec 24, 2010
16,903
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Good lord. This is still being discussed? Zibanejad is already an elite top line center. Short of wanting a Crosby or a McDavid, just what kind of center are you looking for? And once you answer that, just where is it that you are finding him?

Lastly, have you seen what Zibanejad has done over the last two years? That is without the benefit of a true elite player (and I love Kreider) playing on his line. What do you think his number if he were in Tampa would look like? Or let's say put him on the top line in Colorado? AND, oh by the way, he plays against the opposition's top lines?

Offense across the league has been inflated the last two years. 25 players scored 82 or more points last year.

Compared to the year of the Hawks last Cup run in 2015. Only 3 players scored more than 82 or more points (Benn with the most at 87).
 

Ola

Registered User
Apr 10, 2004
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The losing of a NMC after the first 4 years is a serious win for them. He'll be paid all but 14M the first 4 seasons of his deal.

If it gets to the point where he needs to be moved, the cap hit minus the actual salary is a win for some teams that could be looking for help to the cap floor.

Side Bonus: Not needing to change my profile pic on here.

Yeah, but lol, I've said the above too many times in relation to other guys, to say it about Kreider. Staal/Girardi/Shatty and everyone like that was/is owed so little late in the contract that we always should be able to deal them, but so far no GM has lined up to do us any favors.
 

JimmyG89

Registered User
May 1, 2010
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Yeah, but lol, I've said the above too many times in relation to other guys, to say it about Kreider. Staal/Girardi/Shatty and everyone like that was/is owed so little late in the contract that we always should be able to deal them, but so far no GM has lined up to do us any favors.

The biggest difference is that he is a forward. Not 1 of 6 on the team, 1 of 12, so it helps when it comes to finding a slot for a player. Overpaying a defender and asking someone to take on a player that isn't that good is tougher when you know that player will be out there for a decent amount of time. Unless you really push your top 4, 3rd pairing guys will still get around 15 minutes per game. A 3rd liner probably gets 12-14 minutes, maybe less. 4th liners even less than that.

From all the cap dump trades I've seen, it's forwards that get moved. Defense gets bought out.
 
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Brooklyn Rangers Fan

Change is good.
Aug 23, 2005
19,237
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Yeah, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be:
View attachment 326743
And that's if you buy out the final THREE years. It gets better if you only need to do years 6 and 7: the hit drops to $3.8MM (freeing space of $2.7MM) during the remaining years of the deal, with a penalty of only $1.3MM during each of the extra 1-2 years, depending on when you do it.

Add to that fact an eminently forgiving NTC that includes less than half the league...?

As I said, I never dreamed the terms would be so favorable. Well done, Gorts. THIS is how a wealthy team can use its resources to its advantage.
 
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mas0764

Registered User
Jul 16, 2005
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Nor do I believe they have much intention on keeping many of the earlier picks that could eventually add to that group, that would take too long. To me it looks like they are going to continue to build-up the Panarin age grouping while subtracting from the 7-10 year younger Kakko/Chytil grouping.

That's my concern. I feel like what the letter promised was a rebuild around a Chytil/Kravtsov/Kakko/2020 FRP age group. I believed in that vision and still believe that THIS age group is the one that can win us a Cup or multiple Cups. This age group would include Fox, Miller, DeAngelo, Lundkvist, Hajek, Rykov, Robertson, and Jones. It might or might not include Lias Andersson, Karl Henricksson, Morgan Barron, Levi Aaltonen. It obviously includes Shesterkin.

I was 1000% behind the Panarin signing last summer. Panarin entering his age 28 season with low NHL mileage to me looked like a player (and was supported by the Athletic's statistical projections) that would remain a top - line player, in terms of ability and production, until the very, very end of that 7 year deal. In fact, the projection even appeared that he might warrant an additional contract as either remaining a top-line player at age 36, or, maybe a reduced role contract similar to an aging Marian Gaborik for the Kings. The thought process was, being a literal top 5 or top 10 player on the planet, Panarin is the superstar overpayment, the near-Sidney Crosby talent we've chased since Jagr, who will carry the team now while it matures, still be a star when it's ready to compete, and possibly even still be a first line player as they win Cups. But the worst case scenario would be, Panarin is an excellent supplement to the TRUE core of Chytil/Kravtsov/Kakko/2020 FRP.

Zibanejad was an odd fit to this vision in my estimation. Actually younger than Panarin, but I don't know if he projects to retain his ability as long as Panarin does. Of course, since the 2019-20 season began, Mika has taken steps that has really moved the needle toward "Elite center" that would give you some hope he could also be a highly-producing veteran to that "Kakko-led core."

A guy like Trouba I did not really see as a fit for this core, this vision. He was also a bit older (similar to Zibanejad), but unlike Zibanejad who is entering elite territory at a vital position where we do not have other, younger options currently, Trouba plays a less-important position where we have literally tons of other options. But at the price tag it cost to acquire Trouba, I signed off on the trade. Pionk and a 20th pick just seemed like too good value for him as an asset, and I could live with an exception to the "core vision" I had if we were deploying Trouba as a shepherd for our young defensemen assets. But I did not anticipate that Trouba in 5-6-7 years will be a Trouba I want to continue to have around, as compared to that I suspect I will want to have Panarin still around.

But now Kreider is also brought aboard for the long term. And now there is talk about Strome, about Fast. These guys are not in the same stratosphere as Panarin or even Zibanejad when looking at their combination of age and projected ability going forward.

I'm legitimately concerned, because if they are gearing up to win with a Kreider-Panarin-Zibanejad core, then that NECESSARILY drains assets that could be supplementing the Kakko-led core. But at the same time, I do not think a Kreider-Panarin-Zibanejad core has enough to win anything substantial without the maturation of the Kakk0-led core to near-star status.

To me, Kreider was a very obvious Mendoza line. He was the oldest of this group of potential exceptions to the Kakko-core. He was the least productive, at least of the forwards, of the potential exceptions to the Kakko-core. And, as a Power Forward, historically quickly declining as a position, he seemed the most likely to not retain his current level of production as well, which was, again, already behind Ziba and Panarin.

So to me, that is where the cut off had to occur. We traded some future for some present with Panarin (because obviously without Panarin, we are like a bottom-5 team and therefore a top-5 pick). We traded some future for some present with Trouba... I didn't love it, but given that Staal and Smith were on the way out, I was ok with having one veteran presence back there on the blue line when the trade cost was cheap. And it makes sense projecting forward that at age 29, we extend Mika as well, cause he's a legit 1C at this point, and you simply cannot let those guys go.

Kreider doesn't fit any of those categorizations. He's valuable but not irreplaceable, he's unique but not a unicorn, he's a winger not a center, he's a top six player but not really a lock as a first liner, especially moving forward. And he was gonna cost a lot of money. That's where the cut had to occur.

Well, they chose that they didn't want to live without him. By doing so, they absolutely have consciously decided that they want to be able to "compete" next year and the year after, whereas my approach would have meant probably waiting till that second or maybe even third year. They've moved up the clock probably a full two seasons.

Why they felt this pressure, I do not know. Maybe they felt they "could," since they had won the Kakko derby. Maybe they felt his selection insulates them from ever being short on top-end talent in their top 6. I can see why they might feel like they have an embarassment of riches in comparison to their 2014-15 teams, because if Kakko-Kravtsov-Chytil pan out, they certainly will have more forward talent than those Cup contender teams.

But, on the other hand, they do not really have enough to compare favorably with the Lightning, Penguins, etc, historically. Dynasty teams and Cup Contenders built on their forward cores tend to have more top-6 caliber players than we either have or have in the pipeline. It's not impossible that we can still win this way, but it has become SIGNIFICANTLY harder to acquire the pieces I think we will need to have a multi-multi year run of league dominance.

We will have to get more creative and we will probably have to lose at least one additional player that we would prefer not to lose at sometime during the Kreider contract, absent the cap REALLY taking off (which is possible).

So we'll see.

I'm still bullish on the Rangers as a whole, and they are gonna be a good team. But I bought into and still buy into that they could have (maybe still can) assembled a great team. I hope that ship hasn't sailed.
 
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NYR Viper

Registered User
Sep 9, 2007
46,986
16,732
Jacksonville, FL
Cost Calculations

BUYOUT DATEBASE SALARY REMAININGS.BONUS REMAININGYEARS REMAININGBUYOUT LENGTHAGEBUYOUT RATIOTOTAL COSTTOTAL SAVINGSANNUAL COST
Jun 15, 2024$13,000,000$1,000,00036332/3$8,666,667$4,333,333$1,444,444
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Cap Hit Calculations

SEASONINITIAL BASE SALARYINITIAL CAP HITSIGNING BONUSBUYOUT COSTPOST-BUYOUT EARNINGSSAVINGSCAP HIT (
new_york_rangers.svg
NYR)
2024-25$5,000,000$6,500,000$0$1,444,444$1,444,444$3,555,556$2,944,444
2025-26$4,000,000$6,500,000$0$1,444,444$1,444,444$2,555,556$3,944,444
2026-27$4,000,000$6,500,000$1,000,000$1,444,444$2,444,444$2,555,556$3,944,444
2027-28$0$0$0$1,444,444$1,444,444-$1,444,444$1,444,444
2028-29$0$0$0$1,444,444$1,444,444-$1,444,444$1,444,444
2029-30$0$0$0$1,444,444$1,444,444-$1,444,444$1,444,444
TOTAL$13,000,000$19,500,000$1,000,000$8,666,667$9,666,667$4,333,333$15,166,664
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


Cost Calculations

BUYOUT DATEBASE SALARY REMAININGS.BONUS REMAININGYEARS REMAININGBUYOUT LENGTHAGEBUYOUT RATIOTOTAL COSTTOTAL SAVINGSANNUAL COST
Jun 15, 2025$8,000,000$1,000,00024342/3$5,333,333$2,666,667$1,333,333
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Cap Hit Calculations

SEASONINITIAL BASE SALARYINITIAL CAP HITSIGNING BONUSBUYOUT COSTPOST-BUYOUT EARNINGSSAVINGSCAP HIT (
new_york_rangers.svg
NYR)
2025-26$4,000,000$6,500,000$0$1,333,333$1,333,333$2,666,667$3,833,333
2026-27$4,000,000$6,500,000$1,000,000$1,333,333$2,333,333$2,666,667$3,833,333
2027-28$0$0$0$1,333,333$1,333,333-$1,333,333$1,333,333
2028-29$0$0$0$1,333,333$1,333,333-$1,333,333$1,333,333
TOTAL$8,000,000$13,000,000$1,000,000$5,333,333$6,333,333$2,666,667$10,333,332
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Cost Calculations

BUYOUT DATEBASE SALARY REMAININGS.BONUS REMAININGYEARS REMAININGBUYOUT LENGTHAGEBUYOUT RATIOTOTAL COSTTOTAL SAVINGSANNUAL COST
Jun 15, 2026$4,000,000$1,000,00012352/3$2,666,667$1,333,333$1,333,333
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Cap Hit Calculations

SEASONINITIAL BASE SALARYINITIAL CAP HITSIGNING BONUSBUYOUT COSTPOST-BUYOUT EARNINGSSAVINGSCAP HIT (
new_york_rangers.svg
NYR)
2026-27$4,000,000$6,500,000$1,000,000$1,333,333$2,333,333$2,666,667$3,833,333
2027-28$0$0$0$1,333,333$1,333,333-$1,333,333$1,333,333
TOTAL$4,000,000$6,500,000$1,000,000$2,666,667$3,666,667$1,333,333$5,166,666
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 

Brooklyn Rangers Fan

Change is good.
Aug 23, 2005
19,237
8,238
Brooklyn & Upstate
At this point it is what it is and I've largely moved on, and but I don't really get all that jazzed about the contract being an easy buyout after the 4th year

If you're looking to buyout a contract 3-4 years into a 7 year deal, was it even a smart decision to offer that contract in the first place?

Flame away though
For an undermarket AAV? Absolutely.

I would've been quite happy to pay Chris $7.5-8.0MM over 4 years, or $7.0MM over 5. A buyout effectively takes a large portion of those extra dollars and moves them from the near term cap to the long term cap (thus reducing the hit when the cap will be lower and the extra room is more valuable), and paying it in drips and drabs down the line 5-10 years later (when the cap will be higher and the dollars will hurt less).

And this is the WORST case scenario. A better case would be he declines, but remains useful and you move him, either at cost or with some retention – which now that we see the terms of the movement restriction clauses, is eminently doable.

All of which leaves open the possibility of the BEST case scenario: that he might actually continue to outperform the contract for all 7 years of its term.

My tune on this has changed dramatically now that I know the terms.
 

mas0764

Registered User
Jul 16, 2005
13,825
11,180
Counterpoint: A segment of voters hate it because it's not the number they feel he should have settled for or he wasn't dealt for Newhook.

Uh, yeah, I mean, I don't think that's a counterpoint. The question is, do you like the deal? The implied addendum to that question is "do you like the deal on it's merits?"

What we are talking about is what changed from the vote being overwhelmingly negative on 7 years last week when Edge asked, to now being overwhelmingly positive. IMO once the team gives it's stamp of approval, people shift their opinions, subconsciously even. It's almost the exact terms that people rejected when last asked, now the results are much different, what explains that? Again, I think support of the team and it's moves is hard-wired or baked-in to being a fan in most cases. Nothing insidious about it.

But of course the reason people voted no because they don't like the number. And unquestionably some people voted yes because they do like the number. The shift, however, must have another explanation.
 

Brooklyn Rangers Fan

Change is good.
Aug 23, 2005
19,237
8,238
Brooklyn & Upstate
Shit, I may be jumping all the way from indifferent to loving this deal.

You win in this league when you have players who outperform their contracts. Typically, we see this when kids progress sooner than expected, or while the CBA still Pejorative Slurs their earning power.

But contract structure is another way to go – one, which we've very rarely seen so far in this league, due to a combination of teams wanting to save their own money plus players wanting ironclad control over movement and buyout protection.

As a Rangers fan with a finance background, this deal warms my heart.
 
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mulli25

Registered User
Jun 25, 2008
2,929
324
NJ
Shit, I may be jumping all the way from indifferent to loving this deal.

You win in this league when you have players who outperform their contracts. Typically, we see this when kids progress sooner than expected, or while the CBA still Pejorative Slurs their earning power.

But contract structure is another way to go – one, which we've very rarely seen so far in this league, due to a combination of teams wanting to save their own money plus players wanting ironclad control over movement and buyout protection.

As a Rangers fan with a finance background, this deal warms my heart.

Good luck with that in years 5, 6, and 7
 

mulli25

Registered User
Jun 25, 2008
2,929
324
NJ
Consider for a moment how horrendously bad Kreider would have to be, and for how long the team would endure it, before they take action and execute one of those options.
 

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