Dreger: Kreider and the Rangers unable to agree on a contract, likely to be traded

Status
Not open for further replies.

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
11,348
12,585
Yea except that’s not how arguments work. You can’t even prove your own point other than lOoK iT uP.

Are you really this dense?

Nah, that's just how people are when they live in the centre of the universe - Ontario. Everyone elsewhere are plebs and should be treated a such. They wake up with a bad attitude and it just gets worse when they wander out into the hellscape of their city or interact with others.

Tell you one thing, I was damn glad I got on the train at Eg and off at Union. I got on my side and all the stops in between exited from the other side. Canadians always get a great rep for being nice, but you wouldnt know it commuting in Toronto
 

AMDZen

ME in the RED Circle
Apr 7, 2010
4,409
1,295
Denver
Home.Page.ZeN
I'd rather not. 20 games + playoff run of Kreider IMO isn't worth close to what the Rangers will be asking for him.

I'd rather look into other options like AA and maybe even Thornton before I do that.
I'd rather the Avs do absolutely nothing than any of that. Krieder would be fine as long as we don't give up a first or any of the aforementioned prospects that Joe won't be trading. I get that isn't likely and so the Rags can lose him for nothing after this season then.
 

Necrobutcher

Registered User
Sep 20, 2018
1,582
3,375
Tampere, Finland
The Rangers shouldn't trade him if some doesn't hand them a generous overpayment. They're only 4 points away from a playoff position and have been impressive lately.
 

Gr8CornHolio

Registered User
Feb 20, 2020
174
177
Name one power forward whose game is predicated on speed that aged well into his mid or late 30s...

That contract will be regrettable

That said, kreiders the type of player that will be a huge impact player or a ghost. Depending on where he goes and how well he fits in to the new team

1) Gordie Howe

2) Jaromir Jagr

3) Claude Lemiuex

4) Shane Doan



I named 4 should I keep going? These guys also played well into their 40's

This notion of power forwards not aging well couldn't be more off. When these guys are actually some of the people to play the longest

Obviously those players are more skilled but im comparing physical styles power forwards with speed. When they slow down they rely on their strength and typically these type of players are the ones who last over compared to a player who is just speed and skill reliant
 
Last edited:

mm11

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
6,726
3,850
Fleming island, Fl
Not 100% sure what Trading Kreider will be/say to the players busting their onions to get back in the playoff sprint. They knew the deal with his situation but one would have to think it may cool off their nice run. The team is playing for each other and have a hot goalie.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nightonthesun

nightonthesun

Registered User
Sep 8, 2013
1,641
1,829
New Jersey
I don't get why everyone's saying he's about to fall off a cliff. he's only 28 and he's a very athletic player; I'm not super concerned that he's about to "lose a step" or something. I just think it'd be better for everyone if the Rangers would just lock him up. If there's really no reason to think he's gonna slow down, then he'll be worth the contract he'd command this summer, and they keep their guy. No one is gonna throw away a good prospect for him, and I would be surprised to see him pull anything more than a very-late 1st. is that worth losing him? If it's known that he won't resign in New York, that's a different story, but I wasn't under that impression
 
Feb 27, 2002
37,882
7,942
NYC
I really think the Rangers should working something out with Kreider for 5-6 years. For one, he's still just 28 so he has some very nice years left. He's a good team guy and fan-favorite. The Rangers have very nice chemistry right not--and the way they're playing I wouldn't rule them out of sneaking into the playoffs and getting hot. Unless another is legit willing to overpay--say a 1st rounder and a decent prospect--you keep him and try to extend him before UFA opens up.
I think that’s what they would like to do. He may be looking for more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: klingsor

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
13,671
4,116
I don't get why everyone's saying he's about to fall off a cliff. he's only 28 and he's a very athletic player; I'm not super concerned that he's about to "lose a step" or something. I just think it'd be better for everyone if the Rangers would just lock him up. If there's really no reason to think he's gonna slow down, then he'll be worth the contract he'd command this summer, and they keep their guy. No one is gonna throw away a good prospect for him, and I would be surprised to see him pull anything more than a very-late 1st. is that worth losing him? If it's known that he won't resign in New York, that's a different story, but I wasn't under that impression

Because the past is a good predictor for the future. And you are dead wrong on that one.
Look at bigger forwards getting paid approaching 30. Lets just say the list is beyond ugly. Between Clarkson, Clowe, Lucic, Neal, Backes, Ladd, Okposo and a ton of others that got paid in UFA almost none of them have worked out. There is a reason why the Rangers who know him best are not willing to meet his valuation so far. They know whats up. Same goes for Landeskog by the way. Gabes next contract will be ugly for the Avs as well. But they won't have a choice with their captain. Which makes getting Kreider even more iffy for the Avs and I really hope they won't end up with him tonight...
 

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
13,671
4,116
@JoemAvs - a lot of those guys never skated like Kreider can

Yeah which makes it even worse IMO. Because a guy heavily relying on his athleticism and skating is even more prone to that type of decline. Once Kreiders top tier athleticism goes, things will get ugly because I don't think he has the brain and other tools to make up for it.
 

Gr8CornHolio

Registered User
Feb 20, 2020
174
177
Because the past is a good predictor for the future. And you are dead wrong on that one.
Look at bigger forwards getting paid approaching 30. Lets just say the list is beyond ugly. Between Clarkson, Clowe, Lucic, Neal, Backes, Ladd, Okposo and a ton of others that got paid in UFA almost none of them have worked out. There is a reason why the Rangers who know him best are not willing to meet his valuation so far. They know whats up. Same goes for Landeskog by the way. Gabes next contract will be ugly for the Avs as well. But they won't have a choice with their captain. Which makes getting Kreider even more iffy for the Avs and I really hope they won't end up with him tonight...

What about guys like.....

Gordie Howe
Jaromir Jagr
Jerome Iginla
Joe Thorton
Eric Staal

All of these guys power forwards all played well into their late 30's effectively.

Of course you can pick and choose example to make your point. But the notion that just because he is a power forward with speed means he wont age well is not correct.

In fact some of the players with the longest careers ever are power forwards who had speed. Once their speed left they learned to lose their strength
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zats Muccarello

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
13,671
4,116
1) Gordie Howe

2) Jaromir Jagr

3) Claude Lemiuex

4) Shane Doan



I named 4 should I keep going? These guys also played well into their 40's

This notion of power forwards not aging well couldn't be more off. When these guys are actually some of the people to play the longest

Obviously those players are more skilled but im comparing physical styles power forwards with speed. When they slow down they rely on their strength and typically these type of players are the ones who last over compared to a player who is just speed and skill reliant

Yeah you should probably keep going. Because you listed some outliers going back decades which also happen to be surefire HOFers and some of the best players of all time. Not really surprising that these guys are capable of defying the odds considering how far ahead they were in comparison to their peers. Could have also listed Ovi there.


The only somewhat comparable guy that wasn't a superstar is Lemieux. And Claude also a very unique kind of guy to say the least.
 

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
40,796
20,390
Because the past is a good predictor for the future. And you are dead wrong on that one.
Look at bigger forwards getting paid approaching 30. Lets just say the list is beyond ugly. Between Clarkson, Clowe, Lucic, Neal, Backes, Ladd, Okposo and a ton of others that got paid in UFA almost none of them have worked out. There is a reason why the Rangers who know him best are not willing to meet his valuation so far. They know whats up. Same goes for Landeskog by the way. Gabes next contract will be ugly for the Avs as well. But they won't have a choice with their captain. Which makes getting Kreider even more iffy for the Avs and I really hope they won't end up with him tonight...

Kreiders big advantage is skating, superior to pretty much everyone on the list.

Still those last years more than likely will be rough
 

Kaapo Cabana

Next name: Admiral Kakkbar
Sep 5, 2014
5,009
4,087
Philadelphia
Name one power forward whose game is predicated on speed that aged well into his mid or late 30s...

That contract will be regrettable

That said, kreiders the type of player that will be a huge impact player or a ghost. Depending on where he goes and how well he fits in to the new team
Kreider is one of, if not the best net front player in the league.

Why does nobody talk about this?
 

Gr8CornHolio

Registered User
Feb 20, 2020
174
177
Yeah you should probably keep going. Because you listed some outliers going back decades which also happen to be surefire HOFers and some of the best players of all time. Not really surprising that these guys are capable of defying the odds considering how far ahead they were in comparison to their peers. Could have also listed Ovi there.


The only somewhat comparable guy that wasn't a superstar is Lemieux. And Claude also a very unique kind of guy to say the least.

Joe Thorton
Eric Staal
Jerome Iginla.

You are right I could put Ovi as well.

Im not comparing skill level these guys are much better. But they play the same style so saying that a player with his attributes can't last may not be correct

I can try and find more but I have an Omelette on the stove, and who wants to eat a burnt omelette on a monday morning...
 

UnderPSI

Old Salty Dog
Sep 6, 2007
864
81
New Jersey
I really think the Rangers should working something out with Kreider for 5-6 years. For one, he's still just 28 so he has some very nice years left. He's a good team guy and fan-favorite. The Rangers have very nice chemistry right not--and the way they're playing I wouldn't rule them out of sneaking into the playoffs and getting hot. Unless another is legit willing to overpay--say a 1st rounder and a decent prospect--you keep him and try to extend him before UFA opens up.

They have been. Larry Brooks report yesterday Rangers would go 6 years and under 7mil avv but CK wouldn't budge, wants 7yrs and I will even assume more $$$.

Indeed, the divide on the contract term, with the Rangers offering six years and Kreider asking for the seven years he will almost certainly command on the open market July 1, remained an immovable obstacle neither side was able or willing to hurdle in order to make a deal. There was also a difference on the money, with the Blueshirts believed offering under $7 million per.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/23/chris-kreider-likely-getting-traded-after-rangers-contract-impasse/
 

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
13,671
4,116
Joe Thorton
Eric Staal
Jerome Iginla.

You are right I could put Ovi as well.

Im not comparing skill level these guys are much better. But they play the same style so saying that a player with his attributes can't last may not be correct

I just think that you have to distinguish between elite level players and Kreider level players. In general elite players age very often a ton better than non-elite players. My theory for that is simply that the margins are slim at the highest level and that if you were well ahead of the curve in your 20s, odds are you will still be ahead in your 30s even if you lose a small step. While things can get ugly if lesser players lose a bit because you potentially lose the small edge that made you an above average player in the first place.

At the end of the day its a guessing game anyways. I just personally believe that Kreider will be added to the above list of regrettable contracts very soon (as will many others as I alluded to). I think paying big money to wingers approaching 30 is one of the worst bets you can currently make in the NHL. Especially if we are not talking about superstar players and bigger forwards relying on their athleticism.
We will see. I just hope my team is not the one taking that ugly gamble tonight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Off Sides

Gr8CornHolio

Registered User
Feb 20, 2020
174
177
I just think that you have to distinguish between elite level players and Kreider level players. In general elite players age very often a ton better than non-elite players. My theory for that is simply that the margins are slim at the highest level and that if you were well ahead of the curve in your 20s, odds are you will still be ahead in your 30s even if you lose a small step. While things can get ugly if lesser players lose a bit because you potentially lose the small edge that made you an above average player in the first place.

At the end of the day its a guessing game anyways. I just personally believe that Kreider will be added to the above list of regrettable contracts very soon (as will many others as I alluded to). I think paying big money to wingers approaching 30 is one of the worst bets you can currently make in the NHL. Especially if we are not talking about superstar players and bigger forwards relying on their athleticism.
We will see. I just hope my team is not the one taking that ugly gamble tonight.

Couldn't agree more, all it takes is one injury and you are slow as a player. But even players like Mike Reechi had a long career.

There are probably more, but obviously it's easier to remember the superstars and complete busts such as the list you gave.

Would be willing to bet there is a middle ground of players we could find. But would really have to do some research on that list.

Plus even after saying i didnt want to burn my omelette I still wound up getting caught up and burning it. So this is not a good start to the morning and will leave that research to you guys.

oh forgot to add David Ayers lets not forget him
 

Heckler81

Registered User
Oct 14, 2017
577
371
Kreider is one of, if not the best net front player in the league.

Why does nobody talk about this?

Thank you, someone gets it. I was just about to post the same thing.

A bunch of people talk about how he will not age well because of his speed. Kreider rarely uses his speed to score, he is not a player that scores on breakaways.

Kreider is a player that posts in front of the net and causes havoc while trying to screen and deflect shots. This is the main difference in his success. He was not good at this earlier in his career. Now, he’s one of the best players in the league doing this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->