Kotkaniemi vs Veleno

[joshik]

Let's make it clear. I also add Hayton but I don't really know why would anyone pick him before these guys. Only adventage i see is his his shot.

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[Kcb12345]

Kotkaniemi, but theres no way he falls to us. Veleno I'd take over Hayton as well personally

 

[Azzuri]

Kotkaniemi is being discussed as 3rd overall by MTL. He's the 2nd best C in the draft. He won't make it to 13th.

 

[MBTendy]

One player does not belong.

 

[joshik]

Kotkaniemi, but theres no way he falls to us. Veleno I'd take over Hayton as well personally

Kotkaniemi is being discussed as 3rd overall by MTL. He's the 2nd best C in the draft. He won't make it to 13th.

Everything could happend (Barzal was projected top 10 pick).

 

[Satan]

It's not even worth your time to include Kotkaniemi.

 

[BfantZ]

From a fan perspective , there all too close to make an accurate judgement . You have to go and watch full games to have a fair comparison rather than judging from highlight videos and points per game .

 

[Satan]

From a fan perspective , there all too close to make an accurate judgement . You have to go and watch full games to have a fair comparison rather than judging from highlight videos and points per game .

????????????

there's more than enough data available to make a decision

 

[jballa95]

From a fan perspective , there all too close to make an accurate judgement . You have to go and watch full games to have a fair comparison rather than judging from highlight videos and points per game .

I think criticizing fans for making their own judgments on what player they want the Stars to draft or what player is better is silly. Some fans don't have the time to sit down and watch full games for each prospect, so they read the writings of scouts and other fans, look at the stats and highlights of the player and make a judgement from that and I think that is totally fine, I'm not expecting expert write-ups on here. Also, as a fan I've watched several full games for each of these prospects, I don't think my opinion of who is better is worth more or less than the fans who did not watch a full game of them. Reading write-ups of what scouts think of prospects tend to be just as useful, if not more useful in determining how a player will turn out than watching a few games of them (where they could be playing injured, playing worse or better than how they performed for the other parts of the season, etc).

These boards are fueled by fan based speculation and evaluation, and this poll is simply a product of that, no matter how close you think these players are.

 

[BfantZ]

I think criticizing fans for making their own judgments on what player they want the Stars to draft or what player is better is silly. Some fans don't have the time to sit down and watch full games for each prospect, so they read the writings of scouts and other fans, look at the stats and highlights of the player and make a judgement from that and I think that is totally fine, I'm not expecting expert write-ups on here. Also, as a fan I've watched several full games for each of these prospects, I don't think my opinion of who is better is worth more or less than the fans who did not watch a full game of them. Reading write-ups of what scouts think of prospects tend to be just as useful, if not more useful in determining how a player will turn out than watching a few games of them (where they could be playing injured, playing worse or better than how they performed for the other parts of the season, etc).

These boards are fueled by fan based speculation and evaluation, and this poll is simply a product of that, no matter how close you think these players are.

Woah , I never criticized anyone . Obviousely everyone should have an opinion . All I’m saying is there are a lot of things that aren’t on the stat sheet that separate players . Its my opinion that these guys are too close to make an accurate judgement upon just stats. I like Hayton but he’s the only one of those 3 I’ve really seen play several times so it’s kind of a biased comparison. Il say one thing though , if Veleno or kotkaniemi are as good as Hayton they will all be solid nhl players .

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Hayton over Veleno for sure.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Kotkaniemi will likely be gone. He’s sky rocketed up the rankings.

Veleno vs Hayton

I go with Veleno pretty easy, but I think Nill goes with Hayton thinking he’ll end up as a Horvat type of player.

Veleno I feel like was a victim of a pretty crappy team. He blew up once he was traded and see more high end production from him. In the end I’m okay with either, but if they are both still on the board I want Veleno.

 

[Morry83]

Voted Veleno only because Kotkaniemi will not be an option at #13. Don’t want Hayton at all, but that’s who we’ll take for sure.

 

[BfantZ]

Starting to get nervous that neither hayton or Veleno will be available at 13.

 

[Kcb12345]

Starting to get nervous that neither hayton or Veleno will be available at 13.

Hopefully Farabee is around there and available then. I'd be happy with that pick

 

[Starry Knight]

I'm happy with Hayton, Farabee, and Veleno at our pick. Hopefully we don't reach for another player with no hockey sense.

 

[Magic Mittens]

Starting to get nervous that neither hayton or Veleno will be available at 13.

Could mean someone dropped then which could be good. Although Nill probably won't take that player

My guess is Smith would drop

 

[BfantZ]

Could mean someone dropped then which could be good. Although Nill probably won't take that player

My guess is Smith would drop

Yea either smith or Farabee would drop . Not saying there bad prospects but if hayton and Veleno are both off the board I would strongly consider trading down and getting a roster piece in the deal . If we have a mid twenties pick we can likely draft sandin who had basically the same offensive numbers as smith and also has an awesome defensive game .

 

[Morry83]

From Shapiro’s draft preview in The Athletic:

“From what I’ve heard, the Stars really like Veleno and would be elated if he drops to 13.”

Also mentions that the Stars will likely be picking from a group of Veleno, Hayton, Denisenko and Kravtsov. I would think Farabee would be in there as well.

 

[WhoahNow]

Agree with basically everyone else here, either pick someone from that cluster of forwards or if anyone drops. Just please don't reach for anyone haha

 

[Solarion]

From Shapiro’s draft preview in The Athletic:

“From what I’ve heard, the Stars really like Veleno and would be elated if he drops to 13.”

Guess Nill/Dallas brain trust changed their minds on the kid. Veleno would surely have fallen to the 2nd round if Detroit hadn't finally taken him off the boards as I believe the defending champs took a defender?

Curious choice, given that Dellandrea has so little international exposure compared to Veleno and when both prospects were in the same intl tournament their performances were polar opposite and not at all in Ty's favor. I can understand Montreal taking Jesperi(though 3rd overall seems a bit of a reach imo), but the dawgs taking Hayton 5th and Dallas, Philly, LA, Anaheim, Columbus all taking centers with Veleno still on the board is a bit of a head scratcher. I had Veleno and Kotkaniemi neck and neck as the best 2 center prospects of this draft class and a big gap between they and Hayton. Time will tell who was right I suppose. It'll be interesting to see if Veleno plays with a chip on his shoulder after being snubbed by nearly every team in the league.

 

[jballa95]

Guess Nill/Dallas brain trust changed their minds on the kid. Veleno would surely have fallen to the 2nd round if Detroit hadn't finally taken him off the boards as I believe the defending champs took a defender?

Curious choice, given that Dellandrea has so little international exposure compared to Veleno and when both prospects were in the same intl tournament their performances were polar opposite and not at all in Ty's favor. I can understand Montreal taking Jesperi(though 3rd overall seems a bit of a reach imo), but the dawgs taking Hayton 5th and Dallas, Philly, LA, Anaheim, Columbus all taking centers with Veleno still on the board is a bit of a head scratcher. I had Veleno and Kotkaniemi neck and neck as the best 2 center prospects of this draft class and a big gap between they and Hayton. Time will tell who was right I suppose. It'll be interesting to see if Veleno plays with a chip on his shoulder after being snubbed by nearly every team in the league.

The last major tournament that both played in was the U18s, and apparently Dellandrea was one of the better forwards on the team, while Veleno was mediocre at best and disappointed many scouts. Although, tournaments are not the greatest thing to evaluate prospects. The fact that Veleno dropped so far, means that there was something very conspicuous that every team picked up on about his game or personality, which still puzzles me other than his extremely lackluster shot. I think Dallas and the other teams who were attempting to trade up to get Dellandrea banked on the hockey he showed after he sorted out his health issues midway through the season. I'm curious though what made Veleno far so far in the eyes of the scouts.

 

[Solarion]

The last major tournament that both played in was the U18s, and apparently Dellandrea was one of the better forwards on the team, while Veleno was mediocre at best and disappointed many scouts.

I'm not sure what metric was used to determine this as I didn't see the tourney, but that isn't at all what the scoreboard showed. Dellandrea never saw the score sheet and Veleno had 7pts in 5 games. Intangibles matter...certainly, but someone would have to explain to me like I'm five what intangibles they saw in Ty that would have them choosing him 13th overall with Veleno still on the board.

I too am curious as to why Veleno fell so far. I mean it's no secret that his shot isn't anything special, so nothing new there, but in most other areas he's very skilled. I'm particularly fond of his skating and work ethic. This guy may eventually make a lot of scouts/GMs unhappy they passed on him. If there's something very conspicuosly absent in his game(aside from his well known mediocre shot), then I must be blind...I ain't seeing it. Don't buy the "lack of hockey IQ" talk going around...I never get that when I watch him.

 

[jballa95]

I'm not sure what metric was used to determine this as I didn't see the tourney, but that isn't at all what the scoreboard showed. Dellandrea never saw the score sheet and Veleno had 7pts in 5 games. Intangibles matter...certainly, but someone would have to explain to me like I'm five what intangibles they saw in Ty that would have them choosing him 13th overall with Veleno still on the board.

I too am curious as to why Veleno fell so far. I mean it's no secret that his shot isn't anything special, so nothing new there, but in most other areas he's very skilled. I'm particularly fond of his skating and work ethic. This guy may eventually make a lot of scouts/GMs unhappy they passed on him. If there's something very conspicuosly absent in his game(aside from his well known mediocre shot), then I must be blind...I ain't seeing it. Don't buy the "lack of hockey IQ" talk going around...I never get that when I watch him.

You're thinking of the Hlinka U18s, which was hosted last August 2017, where Veleno was the leading scorer and Dellandrea was pointless. Granted, this was before Dellandrea sorted out his health issues. But the IIHF U18s, which was held in April of this year is where Veleno was disappointing. I'm not just referring to his 3 assists in 4 games, but scouting reports I had read on him referred to that tournament as Veleno being a disappointment and sort of looking out of place. There are plenty of reasons why a player might not look well in a tournament from sickness or an injury but NHL scouts do use the U18s as a measuring stick. Heck, if Heiskanen didn't have the U18s he had in April of 2017, he likely wouldn't have climbed the boards and got drafted 3rd overall by Dallas. I was (am) a Veleno fan, so maybe the tournament hurt him, or some other unknown anomaly.

 

[Solarion]

You're thinking of the Hlinka U18s, which was hosted last August 2017, where Veleno was the leading scorer and Dellandrea was pointless.

Correct. As I said both guys were in the same tournament. I believe Veleno is the first ever to represent Canada twice at the tournament. Pity it wound up hurting his draft ranking...though if you're picking him up at #30 because of it, you may end up being very pleased.

Agree there are any number of reasons these youngsters' performance may be inconsistent...I'd not put a bunch of stock in any single performance.