Kostitsyn vs Semin

[eatwake]

You still don't get my point do you?

It's about opportunity, you list RSL stats, did you know that Kostitsyn played about 5 or 6 minutes a game, i'm not sure what Semin status was in the RSL, but i'm sure he received a great deal more icetime...

You list AHL and NHL stats, Kostitysn first 20 games or so were spent playing on the 4th line with Benjamin Carpentier and Raitis Ivanans, M-A Thinel (yeah, who?), again, i'm not sure what role Semin had in last years playoffs, but i'm sure he was seeing top 6 icetime, was he not?

sounds like you were trying to compare ice time for the two here. if you're trying to say that we need to cut kostitsyn some slack because he didn't have enough ice time, then you're implying that semin had more ice time than kostitsyn.

anyway, you keep mentioning opportunity. well, i think the point that a lot of us are trying to make is that semin has taken full advantage of every opportunity given to him so far since he was drafted. kostitsyn, so far, has not.

nobody has said kostitsyn sucks or that he won't ever be effective in the NHL. but at this point in their development, it'd be hard for anyone to pick kostitsyn over semin.

 

[trentmccleary]

i think the point that a lot of us are trying to make is that semin has taken full advantage of every opportunity given to him so far since he was drafted. kostitsyn, so far, has not.

I think in every thread someone clearly and concisely explains the heart of the matter (while a few others may have danced around it). We should just take the big point in every thread and make it a big banner as soon as you open the thread.

I vote for this one.

 

[EroCaps]

I'll end this.

Semin=


Kostitysn= :gobble

 

[417]

sounds like you were trying to compare ice time for the two here. if you're trying to say that we need to cut kostitsyn some slack because he didn't have enough ice time, then you're implying that semin had more ice time than kostitsyn.

anyway, you keep mentioning opportunity. well, i think the point that a lot of us are trying to make is that semin has taken full advantage of every opportunity given to him so far since he was drafted. kostitsyn, so far, has not.

nobody has said kostitsyn sucks or that he won't ever be effective in the NHL. but at this point in their development, it'd be hard for anyone to pick kostitsyn over semin.

and like I said, if you ask me today, i'd pick Semin over Kostitsyn (it's liek the 4th time I write this yet you and others always seem to forget that part )

My problem is when people say it's Semin in a landslide, and only bring Kostitsys's stats as an argument, my point is, there's alot more to production than just production, opportunity is one of them, that's all i'm saying

 

[417]

You're trying to convince us why producing moderately at the AHL level is better than producing moderately at the NHL level. I just don't see the logic.

if that's what you interpret from my post, that's your business, I never said this, and I don't believe this...

 

[Zednik]

Semin, by a mile. Kost can't produce in the AHL, let alone the NHL... while Semin had a nice second half at the NHL level.

 

[eatwake]

and like I said, if you ask me today, i'd pick Semin over Kostitsyn (it's liek the 4th time I write this yet you and others always seem to forget that part )

My problem is when people say it's Semin in a landslide, and only bring Kostitsys's stats as an argument, my point is, there's alot more to production than just production, opportunity is one of them, that's all i'm saying

that's because it is a landslide. and it's not just about the stats. you could argue that semin has had more opportunities than kostitsyn, but then you could easily argue that semin has earned every single one of those opportunities. his impressive play in the RSL is why he was chosen to play in the 2003 WC as a teenager and why he was given an opportunity to make the caps roster last year. his impressive play in camp/preseason is why he stuck w/ the team, etc...

if someone jumps at every opportunity given to them, it's only natural to give them even more opportunities. this is not a matter of kostitsyn-bashing. if kostitsyn had done the same, he would've been given more opportunities. this is not about kostitsyn being bad, but rather semin impressing people more than anyone thought he would.

 

[417]

Semin, by a mile. Kost can't produce in the AHL, let alone the NHL... while Semin had a nice second half at the NHL level.

What are you expecting the kid to do, lead his team in scoring as a 19yr old, on a already struggling offensive team, I mean Tomas Plekanec, a 2 time all star on the team doen't even have 40 points...

The problem here is waaayyyy too many Habs fan had unrealistic expectations from Kostitsyn, and hyped him up so much that unless he kept up a point per game average, they were going to be dissapointed, that's your fault...any person with a level head that's followed him this year will tell you he's progressing at the right pace, don't discredit him just because you had unrealistic expectations of him...

he can't produce in the AHL, I mean come on HE JUST TURNED 20 YRS OLD, give it some time before writing him off, this is why Habs fans get the worse rep around here

 

[CH Wizard]

I'll end this.

Semin=


Kostitysn= :gobble

Very mature , response.

 

[417]

that's because it is a landslide. and it's not just about the stats. you could argue that semin has had more opportunities than kostitsyn, but then you could easily argue that semin has earned every single one of those opportunities. his impressive play in the RSL is why he was chosen to play in the 2003 WC as a teenager and why he was given an opportunity to make the caps roster last year. his impressive play in camp/preseason is why he stuck w/ the team, etc...

if someone jumps at every opportunity given to them, it's only natural to give them even more opportunities. this is not a matter of kostitsyn-bashing. if kostitsyn had done the same, he would've been given more opportunities. this is not about kostitsyn being bad, but rather semin impressing people more than anyone thought he would.

yes I agree he took advantage of his opportunity, and I give full credit to Semin (when will you all realize that i'm not downgrading Semin, he's one of my favorite prospects) he deserved everything that came to him lst year, and is obviously a better player for that today...

Was Kostitsyn really given an opportunity in Russia in the RSL, the answer to that question is a resounding no...

When Kostitsyn was brought over to NA to play with the Bulldogs, was he given an opportunity to play with the teams best players right away, the answer to that is also no...did he deserve it, the answer to that is also no, but not because he's not good enough, it was because he didin't know jack **** about defense...he's since then learned and gotten better, and is now playing among the top 6, and he is producing...

You guys have to stop thinking that I think he's better than Semin, I never said this, i'm just saying that before writing Kostitsyn off because of his stats, understand that he should have a better second half now that he's a more complete player, that's all, i'm not taking away anything from Semin...

he was more advanced than Kostitsyn was when he came over to NA, dosen't mean that he's better, he was just better prepared to handle the NA game and NA lifestyle...

Now I know i'm going to have to defend myself again, cause one idiot is going to read this post, and for some reason figure that I think Kostitsyn is better, so i'll say it again...RIGHT NOW, I WOULD TAKE SEMIN OVER KOSTITSYN

 

[Jacob]

I'll end this.

Semin=


Kostitysn= :gobble

I think that's the only language they'll understand.

 

[417]

I think that's the only language they'll understand.

Can you read???

For god's sake, mods close this thread

 

[txpd]

I am not sure what people expect of him. I am sure that noone expected Alexander Semin to lead the RSL playoffs in goals. THAT was far beyond expectations. I think that is the point.

Lets say it again. You say your guy is getting 4th line ice time. Well, Semin got 4th line ice time too and embarrassed the other team's 4th line players. That's who you move up in the pecking order. When he got first line playing time he turned and allstar defenseman inside out and an allstar goalie had to make an outstanding save to stop him. Thats how he got power play time in the nhl.

Maybe your guy is doing that and still sitting on the bench. I don't know, but I would have to say that its not likely...unless he is a pain to the coach too. which isnt good either. why is he on the 4th line?

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

and like I said, if you ask me today, i'd pick Semin over Kostitsyn (it's liek the 4th time I write this yet you and others always seem to forget that part )

My problem is when people say it's Semin in a landslide, and only bring Kostitsys's stats as an argument, my point is, there's alot more to production than just production, opportunity is one of them, that's all i'm saying

BEST POST OF THE THREAD

 

[Crusher20]

BEST POST OF THE THREAD

what ever, no one needs to know who is better, has anyone is in the nhl as of now anyway.. well see in hockey resumes.. if ever. i start to get bored around here, it isnt our fault, its PA faults.. they can all go to hell..


kostitsyn over semin by 3 billions light years by the way.




just kidding. lol

i dont care who is better but to show my no-homerism ill say semin.

 

[CH Wizard]

Maybe your guy is doing that and still sitting on the bench. I don't know, but I would have to say that its not likely...unless he is a pain to the coach too. which isnt good either. why is he on the 4th line?

MAAAAAN! OOOH GOOOD !

Have you read my post or this thread ?

HE ISN"T PLAYING ANYMORE ON THE FOURTH LINE.He played on the fourth line , like 20-25 games because he was new there and the coach didn't want to let too many goals by letting him play alot.He didn't produce because he didn't receive much icetime.NO BIG DEAL.He's now playing on teh 2nd/1st line and he had 1 goals , 1 assist , in his last game.He was playing with guys like Morgan , Milroy.He has IMPROVED in that AREA , PROOF , the coach is using him more often.

417 , you're doing a great job , I guess you shutted up a lot of mouth while saying Pleks doesn't even have 40 points....

CLOSE THIS THREAD.

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

at this point in their development, it'd be hard for anyone to pick kostitsyn over semin.

REMINDER: Who do you prefer?

That was the question of the thread...not who would you take right now!

 

[CH Wizard]

REMINDER: Who do you prefer?

That was the question of the thread...not who would you take right now!

You're right.Guys , read the first post.''WHO DO YOU PREFER'' , not who's better right now.Some , can prefer Kost because maybe they think he has a higher potential.Again , no big deal.

I think , the habs fans aren't the only who can't read.

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

what ever, no one needs to know who is better, has anyone is in the nhl as of now anyway.. well see in hockey resumes.. if ever. i start to get bored around here, it isnt our fault, its PA faults.. they can all go to hell..


kostitsyn over semin by 3 billions light years by the way.




just kidding. lol

i dont care who is better but to show my no-homerism ill say semin.

I said BEST POST OF THE THREAD because 417 said exactly what I was thinking...

 

[417]

I am not sure what people expect of him. I am sure that noone expected Alexander Semin to lead the RSL playoffs in goals. THAT was far beyond expectations. I think that is the point.

Lets say it again. You say your guy is getting 4th line ice time. Well, Semin got 4th line ice time too and embarrassed the other team's 4th line players. That's who you move up in the pecking order. When he got first line playing time he turned and allstar defenseman inside out and an allstar goalie had to make an outstanding save to stop him. Thats how he got power play time in the nhl.

Maybe your guy is doing that and still sitting on the bench. I don't know, but I would have to say that its not likely...unless he is a pain to the coach too. which isnt good either. why is he on the 4th line?

Just more proof that people dont take the time to read others post, he's not on the fourth line anymore, and he's embarrased a bunch of defenseman in the AHL, not to mention the whole US junior team's defense...

just drop it guys, no one here wants to hear Habs fans opinions, because they just think that were homers and would take kostitsyn, when that's the total opposite of everything i've said in this thread

 

[Zednik]

What are you expecting the kid to do, lead his team in scoring as a 19yr old, on a already struggling offensive team, I mean Tomas Plekanec, a 2 time all star on the team doen't even have 40 points...

The problem here is waaayyyy too many Habs fan had unrealistic expectations from Kostitsyn, and hyped him up so much that unless he kept up a point per game average, they were going to be dissapointed, that's your fault...any person with a level head that's followed him this year will tell you he's progressing at the right pace, don't discredit him just because you had unrealistic expectations of him...

he can't produce in the AHL, I mean come on HE JUST TURNED 20 YRS OLD, give it some time before writing him off, this is why Habs fans get the worse rep around here

Yeah sorry, I thought the question was "who would you take right now".

I'd go with Kostitsyn for the long road.

 

[MS]

What are you expecting the kid to do, lead his team in scoring as a 19yr old, on a already struggling offensive team, I mean Tomas Plekanec, a 2 time all star on the team doen't even have 40 points...

The Portland team Semin played for in the AHL last year was *far* worse than the Hamilton team Kostitsyn is on this year. That team scored 156 goals, the lowest total in recent AHL history, and worst in the league. The leading scorer had 16 goals and 48 points. But Semin scored well over a PPG in his time there, and would have led that team in scoring in a cakewalk had he spent the whole year there.

The problem here is waaayyyy too many Habs fan had unrealistic expectations from Kostitsyn, and hyped him up so much that unless he kept up a point per game average, they were going to be dissapointed, that's your fault...any person with a level head that's followed him this year will tell you he's progressing at the right pace, don't discredit him just because you had unrealistic expectations of him...

he can't produce in the AHL, I mean come on HE JUST TURNED 20 YRS OLD, give it some time before writing him off, this is why Habs fans get the worse rep around here

No-one is bashing Kostitsyn. He's a good prospect, and there's nothing 'wrong' with his play this year in Hamilton. But there are other prospects who are better, and Semin is one of them. Quite easily.

And it's not about stats, either, as you're repeatedly stating. It's about performance, and ability to adapt to a higher level. Semin has stood out against men in the RSL, has stood out against men in the AHL, and has held his own quite nicely in the NHL. Kostitsyn has struggled against men at the same age, both in Russia and in the AHL. It's an easy, easy choice.

 

[borro]

Past a ship of Semin called the H.M.S. CapitalsSuck

No that would be an English ship...HMS means His Majesty's Service...

 

[jcpenny]

As a habs fan i'm tired to e Kostitsyn compared to every prospect in the league. Semin is way ahead of him right now, not so hard to realize. Time will tell for Kosts.

 

[417]

The Portland team Semin played for in the AHL last year was *far* worse than the Hamilton team Kostitsyn is on this year. That team scored 156 goals, the lowest total in recent AHL history, and worst in the league. The leading scorer had 16 goals and 48 points. But Semin scored well over a PPG in his time there, and would have led that team in scoring in a cakewalk had he spent the whole year there.




No-one is bashing Kostitsyn. He's a good prospect, and there's nothing 'wrong' with his play this year in Hamilton. But there are other prospects who are better, and Semin is one of them. Quite easily.

And it's not about stats, either, as you're repeatedly stating. It's about performance, and ability to adapt to a higher level. Semin has stood out against men in the RSL, has stood out against men in the AHL, and has held his own quite nicely in the NHL. Kostitsyn has struggled against men at the same age, both in Russia and in the AHL. It's an easy, easy choice.

Your able to make the assesment that Kostitsyn struggled vs. men at the same age? were you on hand to watch his 5 or 6 minutes of icetime per game?

again, i'll repeat my point, to produce you need icetime, and to get icetime, you have to earn it, for some reason his coach in Russia deemed it that Kostitsyn didin't deserve his icetime, and in the AHL, the coach deemed it necessary that Kostitsyn develp his defensive game, before being able to play with the best players, now that he's improved he's scoring, what's so hard to understand, i'm not talking about Semin, stop bringing up his name, I know what' he's done, i'm not arguing that

and i don't know what your talking about, I didin't bring up stats, contrary to what you said, you guys keep saying of he had 1 assist in 17 games, i'm trying to tell why he had 1 assist in 17 games, you guys say he only has 14 points in 30 or so games, i'm just trying to explain to you why, it's not excuses, it's facts, Kostitsyn is one of my favorites prospects, i'm just trying to dispell misconceptions about him...