Kostitsyn vs Semin

[Jacob]

Past a ship of Semin called the H.M.S. CapitalsSuck

Classic!

 

[PSUhockey34]

At the risk of being a "capitals homer", if Semin had seen the ice time he saw at the end of the season, there would be no question whose come along further in their development (not necessarily the better player down the road)...I'd take Semin right now b/c he's shown he's an offensive threat at every level he's played at and regardless if the capitals suck or not, he's shown that he's got a great chance at becoming and impact player at the NHL level

 

[PSUhockey34]

Classic!

pathetic and pointless

 

[Captain Conservative]

Classic!

Please tell me thats sarcasm Jacob.

 

[Jacob]

I thought it was humorous.

 

[Captain Conservative]

I thought it was humorous.

I can't disagree with that.

 

[txpd]

Past a ship of Semin called the H.M.S. CapitalsSuck

there is a clear sign of someone that has nothing of value to offer. did you think that one up by yourself?

 

[trentmccleary]

It's not like players are robots, just because Semin came here and played well right from the start and it's taking Kostitsyn more time, dosen't mean that one is better than the other,

Actually it does.
I'm not psychic and I'm not about to pretend that Kostitsyn has been hiding his talent in the AHL and the RSL... only to burst out of the gates once he gets NHL ice time.

RSL year after draft: Semin (47-10-7-17). Kostitsyn RSL totals (17-0-1-1)
AHL including playoffs: Semin (11-7-8-15). Kostitsyn (39-9-5-14)
NHL: Semin (52-10-12-22), including 9 points/14 games in march.
Oooh, forgot Semin racking up a ton of goals in the NHL infested RSL this season.

Semin is only 11 months older than Kostitsyn and has already done so much more to justify his draft position.
If this goes on the Poll Board... nobody should end up picking Kostitsyn.

Who do I choose? The guy who keeps proving himself in every league he plays in or the guy we all hope just does something... anything soon?

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

Actually it does.
I'm not psychic and I'm not about to pretend that Kostitsyn has been hiding his talent in the AHL and the RSL... only to burst out of the gates once he gets NHL ice time.

RSL year after draft: Semin (47-10-7-17). Kostitsyn RSL totals (17-0-1-1)
AHL including playoffs: Semin (11-7-8-15). Kostitsyn (39-9-5-14)
NHL: Semin (52-10-12-22), including 9 points/14 games in march.
Oooh, forgot Semin racking up a ton of goals in the NHL infested RSL this season.

Semin is only 11 months older than Kostitsyn and has already done so much more to justify his draft position.
If this goes on the Poll Board... nobody should end up picking Kostitsyn.

Who do I choose? The guy who keeps proving himself in every league he plays in or the guy we all hope just does something... anything soon?

Well, I'm pretty sure that Kostitsyn will become a better player...I follow his development and he have a good head on his shoulder. I tought he was a boom of bust type of propect but right now, I'm pretty sure he will become something for the Habs...

Also, don't forget that stat don't tell everything. Semin wouldn't be as succescfull if he was in Kostitsyn situation.

I'm drunk right now so my spelling might be pretty bad

 

[Defence first]

Kostitsyn, doesn't seem to be as much of a "trouble maker"

 

[eatwake]

Yes it does say alot about his progression, it says that he's a young player who's didin't have a clue about defense, he came to Hamilton to play under a coach who's known to be a defensive coach, Doug Jarvis, he spent the 1st 20 games or so improving his defensive game, adapting to a new culture, etc...he then left for the WJC's, excelled there, and since he's come back, he's now playing among the top 6, and his production is becoming more regular...

Some of you are funny, you know nothing about what Kostitsyn has been though this year, you don't know how he's become a much more complete player at the expense of his offensive game, but in the long run, it'll make him a much better player...

circumstances play a huge factor when it comes to prospects...why should it be different for Kostitsyn?

because while Kostitsyn is experiencing these circumstances in the AHL, semin had a remarkably similar experience in the NHL.

you don't think that semin had to play under a crazy coach, adapt to a brand new culture, learn english, and work on his defensive game, while producing enough to keep himself in the lineup? factor in his age and how f*cked up the capitals organization was under cassidy and the task is even more daunting.

in response to the poster that said that semin only made the team because the caps suck, at teh beginning of last season, the caps had a star-studded lineup. sure, the blueline was questionable, but they were definitely loaded up front w/ bondra, lang, jagr, etc... yeah, that team had underachieved, but on paper it was a pretty good lineup.

and it's not like the caps gave him a ton of minutes towards the end of the season because they didn't have anyone else. you'll notice that he rarely got more than 15:00 a game and that hanlon was more than willing to bench him for a period or two for neglecting his resposibilities. but he still produced when given the chance. as another poster said, 9 of his 22 points were recorded in march, a month where the caps won a grand total of 3 games. and, as yet another poster mentioned, the PP run by semin was just about as effective as the star-studded power play they had before the trading deadline.

now, i haven't seen enough of kostitsyn either to pick one or the other but if you're gonna argue that kostitsyn had to carry team Belarus at the WJC, you could easily say that semin had to carry the caps at the end of last season.

 

[417]

Actually it does.
I'm not psychic and I'm not about to pretend that Kostitsyn has been hiding his talent in the AHL and the RSL... only to burst out of the gates once he gets NHL ice time.

RSL year after draft: Semin (47-10-7-17). Kostitsyn RSL totals (17-0-1-1)
AHL including playoffs: Semin (11-7-8-15). Kostitsyn (39-9-5-14)
NHL: Semin (52-10-12-22), including 9 points/14 games in march.
Oooh, forgot Semin racking up a ton of goals in the NHL infested RSL this season.

Semin is only 11 months older than Kostitsyn and has already done so much more to justify his draft position.
If this goes on the Poll Board... nobody should end up picking Kostitsyn.

Who do I choose? The guy who keeps proving himself in every league he plays in or the guy we all hope just does something... anything soon?

You still don't get my point do you?

It's about opportunity, you list RSL stats, did you know that Kostitsyn played about 5 or 6 minutes a game, i'm not sure what Semin status was in the RSL, but i'm sure he received a great deal more icetime, not to mention the fact that he's Russian compared to Kostitsyn who's from Belarus, there's a inferiority complex when it comes to those players in Russia...

You list AHL and NHL stats, Kostitysn first 20 games or so were spent playing on the 4th line with Benjamin Carpentier and Raitis Ivanans, M-A Thinel (yeah, who?), again, i'm not sure what role Semin had in last years playoffs, but i'm sure he was seeing top 6 icetime, was he not? and it's not to say that Kostitsyn didn't earn top line icetime, it's just that he needed to learn the defensive side of the game, since he's been moved to the top 6, he's produced...

Alenxander Perezhogin, struggled in the 1st half of last season in the AHL, only to become one of the better players in the AHL at the end of the season, and I believe he has about the same amount of points as Semin has this year in the RSL in less games...

Every player is different, every player has a different learning curve, i'll give credit to Semin to say that he's adjusted much quicker to the NA game, but he also benefited from playing a lot in Russia, as to Kostitsyn basically lost 1 year of development in CSKA last year because they didin't play him, i'm not saying that Kostitsyn is better than Semin, but stop looking at stats to determine who's better, give him some time, how many post did I read last year claiming that Perezhogin was a bust here after his slow start in the AHL...

Just give him some time, this year is a learning experience for Kostitsyn as one of the youngest players in the AHL (recently turned 20) for a player who hasn't played much vs. top notch competition throughout his career, instead of looking at his stats (9 goal and 5 assists) as a dissapointement, maybe you should consider all the circumstances and realize that for a yong player, he's actually doing quite well, and should only get better from here, anyone who's seen Kostitsyn play will tell you he's an extremely talented player, in fact if you have Sportsnet watch him tonight..

So like I said, yes, Semin is the better player now, but before saying it's not even close, just consider all the circumstances, and give it some time...

 

[417]

because while Kostitsyn is experiencing these circumstances in the AHL, semin had a remarkably similar experience in the NHL.

you don't think that semin had to play under a crazy coach, adapt to a brand new culture, learn english, and work on his defensive game, while producing enough to keep himself in the lineup? factor in his age and how f*cked up the capitals organization was under cassidy and the task is even more daunting.

in response to the poster that said that semin only made the team because the caps suck, at teh beginning of last season, the caps had a star-studded lineup. sure, the blueline was questionable, but they were definitely loaded up front w/ bondra, lang, jagr, etc... yeah, that team had underachieved, but on paper it was a pretty good lineup.

and it's not like the caps gave him a ton of minutes towards the end of the season because they didn't have anyone else. you'll notice that he rarely got more than 15:00 a game and that hanlon was more than willing to bench him for a period or two for neglecting his resposibilities. but he still produced when given the chance. as another poster said, 9 of his 22 points were recorded in march, a month where the caps won a grand total of 3 games. and, as yet another poster mentioned, the PP run by semin was just about as effective as the star-studded power play they had before the trading deadline.

now, i haven't seen enough of kostitsyn either to pick one or the other but if you're gonna argue that kostitsyn had to carry team Belarus at the WJC, you could easily say that semin had to carry the caps at the end of last season.

Playing with Robert Lang, Jaromir Jagr, Peter Bondra, Dainius Zubrus and company, it's alot easier to adjust than playing with Benjamin Carpentier, Raitis Ivanans, M-A Thinel, Gavin Morgan, Michael Lambert...just give it some time

 

[trentmccleary]

So like I said, yes, Semin is the better player now, but before saying it's not even close, just consider all the circumstances, and give it some time...

The first post in this thread asked a simple question. It did not ask people to make 50 excuses as to why the loser of the informal poll should really win.
Semin is better now. He's a much safer pick. Both have 1st line potential and one of them is a hell of a lot closer to the other one to reaching that potential.
I'm sure he has a lot of talent, but there are a lot of talented players who are terrible and a lot of ugly players who score a ton.
As for stats, he's not Bulis, Chris Kelly or Jere Lehtinen. He's going to score or he's going home. It's as simple as that.

 

[417]

The first post in this thread asked a simple question. It did not ask people to make 50 excuses as to why the loser of the informal poll should really win.
Semin is better now. He's a much safer pick. Both have 1st line potential and one of them is a hell of a lot closer to the other one to reaching that potential.
I'm sure he has a lot of talent, but there are a lot of talented players who are terrible and a lot of ugly players who score a ton.
As for stats, he's not Bulis, Chris Kelly or Jere Lehtinen. He's going to score or he's going home. It's as simple as that.

They're not excuses they're facts, I don't have a problem with people saying Semin over Kostitsyn, in fact I agree with that statement right now, but I have a problem with people saying it's Semin in a landslide just because Kostitsyn has ordinary stats in the AHL, my point, was not to make excuses for Kostitsyn, but to clarify misconceptions about him that people have, cause most just look at stats and think that's the whole story...

Actually, I think that should both players not realize their full potential, Kostitsyn has a better chance to become more of a two-way forward then Semin, to me, Semin it's score or bust, while Kostitsyn due to his size and strength at worse can become a Jan Bulis or Radek Dvorak type of player...

Either, good discussion

 

[txpd]

Playing with Robert Lang, Jaromir Jagr, Peter Bondra, Dainius Zubrus and company, it's alot easier to adjust than playing with Benjamin Carpentier, Raitis Ivanans, M-A Thinel, Gavin Morgan, Michael Lambert...just give it some time

I think what you are not getting is that most of Semin's points came after all of them were traded and he got some regular ice time. Most of his points came while playing with Jeff Halpern and Brian Willsie. Not bad, but a far cry from Jagr and Lang.

 

[txpd]

They're not excuses they're facts, I don't have a problem with people saying Semin over Kostitsyn, in fact I agree with that statement right now, but I have a problem with people saying it's Semin in a landslide just because Kostitsyn has ordinary stats in the AHL, my point, was not to make excuses for Kostitsyn, but to clarify misconceptions about him that people have, cause most just look at stats and think that's the whole story...

Actually, I think that should both players not realize their full potential, Kostitsyn has a better chance to become more of a two-way forward then Semin, to me, Semin it's score or bust, while Kostitsyn due to his size and strength at worse can become a Jan Bulis or Radek Dvorak type of player...

Either, good discussion

I really am not making and opinion one way or the other on Kostitsyn. I am mostly just standing up for Semin, who has a reasonable chance to be an elite player. I hope they both turnout to be fine players and Semin has a bit of a lead in developement. However, that lack of opportunity may or may not be a product of Kostitsyn's play. The opportunity that Semin has gotten was a result of his play. He was not projected as at all nhl ready two seasons ago, but when he lead the RSL playoffs in goals he had shown his progression ahead of schedule. That was where his NHL opportunity came from. Maybe Kostitsyn has never had that sort of opportunity to show growth, but i sort of doubt it. If he is a player of advanced skills, he should be overmatching 3rd line players in the leagues he is playing in.
don't you think?

 

[417]

I think what you are not getting is that most of Semin's points came after all of them were traded and he got some regular ice time. Most of his points came while playing with Jeff Halpern and Brian Willsie. Not bad, but a far cry from Jagr and Lang.

Jeff Halpern and Brian Wilsie is still alot better than the players I listed in Hamilton

 

[417]

I really am not making and opinion one way or the other on Kostitsyn. I am mostly just standing up for Semin, who has a reasonable chance to be an elite player. I hope they both turnout to be fine players and Semin has a bit of a lead in developement. However, that lack of opportunity may or may not be a product of Kostitsyn's play. The opportunity that Semin has gotten was a result of his play. He was not projected as at all nhl ready two seasons ago, but when he lead the RSL playoffs in goals he had shown his progression ahead of schedule. That was where his NHL opportunity came from. Maybe Kostitsyn has never had that sort of opportunity to show growth, but i sort of doubt it. If he is a player of advanced skills, he should be overmatching 3rd line players in the leagues he is playing in.
don't you think?

Yes your right, but what's the point of putting kostitsyn in right away on the 1st line if he had no clue of where his own defensive zone is...he's improved enough in that area that now, he's among the top 6, and he's producing

 

[EroCaps]

Jeff Halpern and Brian Wilsie is still alot better than the players I listed in Hamilton

And the defense he's facing in the AHL is a lot worse than what Semin faced in the NHL.

 

[eatwake]

Yes your right, but what's the point of putting kostitsyn in right away on the 1st line if he had no clue of where his own defensive zone is...he's improved enough in that area that now, he's among the top 6, and he's producing

you make it sound like semin came in to washington and was given free reign on the top 2 lines. he was scratched a majority of the games before hanlon, and when he did play, he played on the 4th line w/ stephen peat and kip miller; hardly quality linemates. the only time he played w/ the langs, bondras, jagrs, was on the powerplay, because he rightfully earned his spot there. one game that stands out in my memory was back in january, right after he came back from the WJC and his first game under hanlon. he played sparingly on the 4th line for the majority of the game, and saw minimal 2nd unit PP time for the first two periods. i specifically remember al koken saying that hanlon noticed the PP was completely ineffective, and so at the next opportunity, he put semin in there in place of halpern on the top unit.
30 seconds into the PP, semin pots the eventual GWG.

anyway, i think the point is that semin has taken every opportunity given to him and ran w/ it, whether it was in the RSL playoffs after his draft year, in the NHL last year, in the AHL playoffs, and in the RSL this year. kostitsyn, at this point, has not done that.

 

[mvp76]

Lets just wait till Kost plays in the nhl.

 

[417]

you make it sound like semin came in to washington and was given free reign on the top 2 lines. he was scratched a majority of the games before hanlon, and when he did play, he played on the 4th line w/ stephen peat and kip miller; hardly quality linemates. the only time he played w/ the langs, bondras, jagrs, was on the powerplay, because he rightfully earned his spot there. one game that stands out in my memory was back in january, right after he came back from the WJC and his first game under hanlon. he played sparingly on the 4th line for the majority of the game, and saw minimal 2nd unit PP time for the first two periods. i specifically remember al koken saying that hanlon noticed the PP was completely ineffective, and so at the next opportunity, he put semin in there in place of halpern on the top unit.
30 seconds into the PP, semin pots the eventual GWG.

anyway, i think the point is that semin has taken every opportunity given to him and ran w/ it, whether it was in the RSL playoffs after his draft year, in the NHL last year, in the AHL playoffs, and in the RSL this year. kostitsyn, at this point, has not done that.

Never said that, I was talking about Kostitsyn not Semin

 

[417]

And the defense he's facing in the AHL is a lot worse than what Semin faced in the NHL.

So your expecting Kostitsyn to play 1 on 5??

whatever, if you don't understand what I mean, you never will, so let's just give it up, Semin is a god, Kostitsyn sucks...happy

 

[Jacob]

You're trying to convince us why producing moderately at the AHL level is better than producing moderately at the NHL level. I just don't see the logic.