I guess it depends if you're talking about now, or in the future and over the course of their careers. Granted, most of these kids are ahead of Komisarek at this point, partly because they have been playing the game longer, and partly because they have less competition to overcome at the NHL level. But I think that he will catch and pass them all at some point. If I had to choose a single defenceman 22 or under to start a franchise with it would be Mike.
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Enoch
This is my boomstick
db23 said:
Who cares?
Stats aren't everything.
Stats aren't everything.
Stats aren't everything
Oh one more time.
Stats ARENT everything. In fact, they represent a very small portion of a players characteristics. Other than the point totals, a statistic sheet will not tell you how well a player TRULY plays defensively (the +/- is a half-hearted attempt at covering a players defensive ability but it really can't adaquetly measure a players worth defensively), his leadership capacity, his ability to make others better around him, his hockey knowledge, his raw talent, his physical play, or even his true ability to create offensive oppurtunities. Stats are cold and impersonal. They simply are there, and when using them to judge a players worth, you HAVE to have a balance between their on ice play and the stat sheet. I have noticed in EVERY post that you make, the only thing you use to back up your claims is stats! There are reasons players like Ladislav Smid can put up 7 or 8 points for their entire year, yet still be considered top end prospects.....even offensively. Its due to the several things I have mentioned earlier, as well as others - such as attitude, etc.....not stats.
Oh, one more thing. If you are going to use purely stats to back up your claims, its almost laughable when you make excuses for the players you like that have not even matched up the same STATISTICALLY as the player you are dismissing.
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O.K., if it makes you feel better, Komisarek will be the better player, JUST BECAUSE I KNOW HE WILL.
Satisified?
Satisified?
What? Bouwmeester has 2 years NHL experience. I don't get what you are talking about.db23 said:
It's homerism like this that gives habs fans a bad rap.db23 said:
Regardless of what you think, Komisarek is NOT the best denfensive prospect. I agree with what Mirzal said in the other thread about Komisarek.
That's funnyBouwmeester started playing hockey when he was 4, now he is 21. (17 years)19bruins19 said:
Komisarek started the game when he was 12. Now he is 22. (10 years)
Freaky Habs Fan
Registered User
Moskau said:
They put Komi on foward for one game. Reason: the habs had many injuries and was short on foward so they take Komi and put him on the fourth line. It was for one game and he have a roster spot secure for the next season so I don't understand your point with Grand-Pierre...
He will not play on foward again!
Thundermare
Registered User
- Aug 21, 2004
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db23 said:
Of course, by that logic Tomas Pock is going to be the greatest defenseman ever. He's only ben on the blue-line for two years!
You really think the 'development' time that Bouwmeester got playing pee wee is his big edge on Komisarek?
Obviously it makes a difference. I would be willing to bet that Bouwmeester (and Spezza) were already on the scout's "identification" list by the time Komisarek put on his first pair of skates.
As for Pock, he was already considered one of the best players in Austria before he came to North America. I think he had played for the Austrian national team before he played his first NCAA game. In the NCAA he was just an average forward so they moved him back as a "rover". I still don't think he will be an NHL defenceman.
As for Pock, he was already considered one of the best players in Austria before he came to North America. I think he had played for the Austrian national team before he played his first NCAA game. In the NCAA he was just an average forward so they moved him back as a "rover". I still don't think he will be an NHL defenceman.
nomorekids
The original, baby
db23, habs fans as a collective whole are on the phone.
they said, "please, stop. you're giving us a bad name"
they said, "please, stop. you're giving us a bad name"
db23 said:
O.k., I'm having trouble tracking your position.
Is it - Komisarek is better young defender than Bouwmeester, because even though he's older and not as good now, he's got less experience so he's got more upside. Is that the position you are really trying to take?
And if so, why doesn't Bouwmeester get credit for being a standout since he was a toddler while Komisarek's resume of achievement is commiserately so much shorter? Doesn't Bouwmeester get credit for being more proven, especially at a younger age?
Komisarek's late start at hockey makes him riskier than a player who started younger. How can you argue that it makes him better? He's never getting those years back. For every year of learning and experience he adds today, Bouwmeester adds the same. Unless Komisarek suddenly starts learning much, much faster, he can't catch Jay until they're in their 50's.
And I'm still waiting to hear why Komisarek is ahead of Tjutin, or a growing number of other more accomplished defensemen of similar vintage. How about Brooks Orpik? He's big, tough, and physical with limited offense. He played franchise minutes for a horrific franchise and while his +/- numbers stunk, he didn't crack under the pressure. Is he ahead or behind? Do you believe Komisarek would have done better in Orpik or Tjutin's shoes? And on what do you base that opinion, other than scouting reports from four years ago?
Again, I like Komisarek a lot, and it's not my intent to turn this into a witch hunt against him. But so far he's proven himself to be nothing more than a big, pretty physical, 5th-6th defenseman. Sure, he's young and the Habs have a nice group of defensemen ahead of him. But it's not like it's an All-Star squad and he's a super unknown. They've been hyping him for years as one of the cornerstones of the franchise... now they won't give him minutes he deserves because they need to play Stephan Quintal?
Komisarek's resume and play is way behind Hamhius. Miles behind Bouwmeester. Well behind Tjutin. And I could probably look around and find another 10 guys in Komisarek's age range who are all more accomplished than he is, and have plenty of room to continue to improve. Until Komisarek:
A) Starts producing offensively; OR
B) Starts playing top four minutes
He'll be behind a lot of guys.
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
db23 said:
Just wondering -- do you actually think that where someone went in the draft matters at all 3 years later?
IMO, both Tyutin and Hamhuis appear to be more at ease with the speed of the NHL game. I'd love to have any one of the three on my team, but at this point their draft order has less than nothing to do with who will eventually become the better defenseman.
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
db23 said:
You remember on the other thread - you asked what's wrong with being a homer? This post drives that point home. How is someone supposed to respect your opinion when you don't back your point up at all?
So far, you seem to be saying that:
1) AHL stats from two years ago are much more reflective of a players potential than what they have produced since in the NHL.
I would point to an entire slew of players that dominated in the AHL, and proceeded to be total busts in the NHL. (I'm NOT saying that Komi will bust BTW).
2) Komi's NHL game will mature quickly because he's hasn't played as long as most other prospects.
I'm not even sure how you think this has any bearing whatsoever. This isnt't pee-wee or midget hockey.
3) An extra MPH on his slapshot makes him a better d-man than another prospect.
I think that the speed of a slapshot is about the most overrated aspect of player evaluation. Having a very hard shot doesn't mean squat if it takes forever for him to get it off, and if he can't get the shot on net.
I think that Komi is a great prospect. I wouldn't be surprised though if many of guys we're talking about here have a much better NHL career though.
Anyone with double digit I.Q. should realize that comment was sarcasm out of FRUSTRATION at being constantly being criticised for trying to use tangible points of comparison like stats, awards, size, etc.
As for Komisarek, yes I think he has at least as much upside as any of the prospects mentioned. Look at Zdeno Chara. If anyone had compared him to the likes of Wade Redden, Bryan Berard, Chris Phillips, Andrei Zyuzin etc. a few years ago they would be laughed off the boards. Now the Sens probably wouldn't trade him for any of those players.
Komisarek has some advantages that the others will never have. He has natural size and strength, he doesn't have to pump up or juice up. He is a right handed shot. He is tremendously durable. I don't think he has missed a game due to injury in the past 5 years at least. His skating is as good as anyone's this side of Boumeester, his shot and his passing are excellant as well. He can drop the gloves with anyone. He is very smart and a character kid. The only thing he lacks is experience and confidence. Once he gets those two things the sky is the limit. He will improve faster and longer than any of his contemporaries.
nomorekids
The original, baby
db23 said:
Anyone with double digit I.Q. should realize that comment was sarcasm out of FRUSTRATION at being constantly being criticised for trying to use tangible points of comparison like stats, awards, size, etc.
As for Komisarek, yes I think he has at least as much upside as any of the prospects mentioned. Look at Zdeno Chara. If anyone had compared him to the likes of Wade Redden, Bryan Berard, Chris Phillips, Andrei Zyuzin etc. a few years ago they would be laughed off the boards. Now the Sens probably wouldn't trade him for any of those players.
Komisarek has some advantages that the others will never have. He has natural size and strength, he doesn't have to pump up or juice up. He is a right handed shot. He is tremendously durable. I don't think he has missed a game due to injury in the past 5 years at least. His skating is as good as anyone's this side of Boumeester, his shot and his passing are excellant as well. He can drop the gloves with anyone. He is very smart and a character kid. The only thing he lacks is experience and confidence. Once he gets those two things the sky is the limit. He will improve faster and longer than any of his contemporaries.
Zdeno Chara is 6'9.
Ajacied
Stay strong Appie! ❤
db23 said:
Alexandre Daigle was drafted first overall in 1993, so there's NO WAY that pretty much the entire first round could carve out a better career than him.
Aarex
Registered User
N.Y. Orangeman
Registered User
db23 said:
Komisarek has some advantages that the others will never have.
Like being a Hab prospect on this board?
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