Prospect Info: Kole Lind, Pt. II | Is not being taken, etcetera

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LickTheEnvelope

Time to Retool... again...
Dec 16, 2008
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Nobody really talks about how bad of a 1st round pick Brendan Gaunce was. 1st round pick, and Skeji / Pearson went a couple picks after him. Add him to the list with Hodgson / Juolevi / Virtanen / Jensen/ White of wasted 1st round picks.

Taylor Ellington is still the worst pick I've ever seen the Canucks make. Might be up there with the worst picks of any team ever.

An average sized defensive d-man from Victoria with almost zero numbers and he went 10 picks before PK Subban.

Stats:

Ellington 6'1, 200 lbs:
5 goals, 8 assists, 13 points, +5
Taken 33rd Overall

Subban 6'0, 200 lbs
15 goals, 41 assists, 56 points, +13
Taken 43rd Overall

Also that year the Canucks took Patrick White at 27 Overall over David Perron and Jamie Benn (another Victoria guy) somehow went in the 5th round.

Nuts.
 

Jevo

Registered User
Oct 3, 2010
3,485
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You are forgetting that Ellington looked great in practice. Who needs to play good in games when Ron Delorme can see your obvious talent at the practice sessions.
 
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DFAC

Registered User
Jan 19, 2008
7,061
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Taylor Ellington is still the worst pick I've ever seen the Canucks make. Might be up there with the worst picks of any team ever.

An average sized defensive d-man from Victoria with almost zero numbers and he went 10 picks before PK Subban.

Stats:

Ellington 6'1, 200 lbs:
5 goals, 8 assists, 13 points, +5
Taken 33rd Overall

Subban 6'0, 200 lbs
15 goals, 41 assists, 56 points, +13
Taken 43rd Overall

Also that year the Canucks took Patrick White at 27 Overall over David Perron and Jamie Benn (another Victoria guy) somehow went in the 5th round.

Nuts.

Agreed, that Ellington pick made no sense then and still doesnt today. He turns 30 this year.... boy does that make me feel old :laugh:

Edit: Just lurked his linkedin, seems like he quit pro hockey 4 years ago and is back in school and doing volunteer work. Sounds like a good guy, wish him all the best
 

Johnny Canucker

Registered User
Jan 4, 2009
17,750
6,116
True. Patrick white was horrible too.

Has any team botched more 1st round picks than us? Honestly.


Taylor Ellington is still the worst pick I've ever seen the Canucks make. Might be up there with the worst picks of any team ever.

An average sized defensive d-man from Victoria with almost zero numbers and he went 10 picks before PK Subban.

Stats:

Ellington 6'1, 200 lbs:
5 goals, 8 assists, 13 points, +5
Taken 33rd Overall

Subban 6'0, 200 lbs
15 goals, 41 assists, 56 points, +13
Taken 43rd Overall

Also that year the Canucks took Patrick White at 27 Overall over David Perron and Jamie Benn (another Victoria guy) somehow went in the 5th round.

Nuts.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
The Fridge wasn't a great pick by any means but the pickings were pretty slim in that spot that year.

If kole Lind turns out like Brendan Gaunce most people will consider that a great success even while simultaneously considering Gaunce a flop, despite them being picks like 5 spots apart. All because of silly "first round pick!!!" propaganda
 

timw33

HFBoards Sponsor
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Nov 18, 2007
25,709
19,426
Victoria
Taylor Ellington is still the worst pick I've ever seen the Canucks make. Might be up there with the worst picks of any team ever.

An average sized defensive d-man from Victoria with almost zero numbers and he went 10 picks before PK Subban.

Stats:

Ellington 6'1, 200 lbs:
5 goals, 8 assists, 13 points, +5
Taken 33rd Overall

Subban 6'0, 200 lbs
15 goals, 41 assists, 56 points, +13
Taken 43rd Overall

Also that year the Canucks took Patrick White at 27 Overall over David Perron and Jamie Benn (another Victoria guy) somehow went in the 5th round.

Nuts.

2007 was unique in that not only was it historically awful (I believe we managed 0 NHL GP and 40 AHL GP total from the group), but that it was clearly a horrendous draft seconds after the draft finished. We also had 3 2nd round picks before Nonis lost the plot at the deadline yet again trading 2nd 2nd 4th for Smolinski and Sopel.

But I remember how excited everyone was that we had the 25th and 33rd pick, only to make two of the worst selections of the draft.
 
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VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,049
14,079
Ah yes...Taylor Ellington...great name, bad pick...but not convinced he's the worst Canuck second rounder ever....Yann Sauve, Alexandre Mallet and MA Bernier in that legendary 2003 draft where almost every guy drafted in the first and second round went on to an NHL career...they might have been worse....but what's shocking when you check is how many times Canucks traded their second rounders in ill-advised band-aid deals.

But on a positive note and back to Lind....what's his ETA in the NHL?....a full-year in Utica or does he get a cup of coffee this year?
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
If kole Lind turns out like Brendan Gaunce most people will consider that a great success even while simultaneously considering Gaunce a flop, despite them being picks like 5 spots apart. All because of silly "first round pick!!!" propaganda
This is especially nonsensical when applied without regard to the number of teams, so that Jiri Slegr (23) is a second-rounder, but Gaunce (26) is a first-rounder.
 
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iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
7,603
3,959
Ah yes...Taylor Ellington...great name, bad pick...but not convinced he's the worst Canuck second rounder ever....Yann Sauve, Alexandre Mallet and MA Bernier in that legendary 2003 draft where almost every guy drafted in the first and second round went on to an NHL career...they might have been worse....but what's shocking when you check is how many times Canucks traded their second rounders in ill-advised band-aid deals.

But on a positive note and back to Lind....what's his ETA in the NHL?....a full-year in Utica or does he get a cup of coffee this year?
Impossible question to answer right now. It will depend entirely on his play in Utica. He looks stronger and faster so that bodes well. If he flys out of the gate and is one of the better forwards in Utica, I think he will earn a call-up when injuries occur. That said, I think it's their plan to have him in Utica all year. There just isn't enough room on the roster even with multiple injuries..
 

RobertKron

Registered User
Sep 1, 2007
15,413
8,500
Ah yes...Taylor Ellington...great name, bad pick...but not convinced he's the worst Canuck second rounder ever....Yann Sauve, Alexandre Mallet and MA Bernier in that legendary 2003 draft where almost every guy drafted in the first and second round went on to an NHL career...they might have been worse....but what's shocking when you check is how many times Canucks traded their second rounders in ill-advised band-aid deals.

But on a positive note and back to Lind....what's his ETA in the NHL?....a full-year in Utica or does he get a cup of coffee this year?

Are you just picking names at random out of a list of Canuck 2nd rounders? Sauve was a far better pick than Ellington. Hell, Mallet - who was a really bad pick - probably made more sense than Ellington.
 

M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
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This is especially nonsensical when applied without regard to the number of teams, so that Jiri Slegr (23) is a second-rounder, but Gaunce (26) is a first-rounder.
How does that make any sense
 

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
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This is especially nonsensical when applied without regard to the number of teams, so that Jiri Slegr (23) is a second-rounder, but Gaunce (26) is a first-rounder.

there is a large initial gradation between picks, but a consistent fairly gentle slope is pretty much established by about pick 25. this chart tracking forward ppg outcomes suggests the difference in pick value between 60 and 25 is about the same as 25 to 15, or 15 to 10.


chart22.jpg
 
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ChilliBilly

Registered User
Aug 22, 2007
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Its interesting that we keep complaining about giving up draft picks for useless bandaids, but also complain that when we keep the picks we don't pick decent players ....
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,875
3,570
Vancouver, BC
If kole Lind turns out like Brendan Gaunce most people will consider that a great success even while simultaneously considering Gaunce a flop, despite them being picks like 5 spots apart. All because of silly "first round pick!!!" propaganda
I don't know about that. Lind seems to be a special case in that many people seem to have unrealistic expectations about in general, such that not being at least a 30+ point player would be unreasonably disappointing to them. On top of that, many people also don't appreciate the type of thing that Gaunce does, period, and would probably be similarly under-appreciative of Lind if he's effective in the same way.

But in general, I agree that if Gaunce was an early 2nd instead of a late 1st, the perception of his progress would be very different. People seem to have this ridiculous binary cut-off point with the label of 1st rounders vs. everything else, such that with the former (even with the 31st overall pick), anything less than top six is a bust across the board, and with the latter (even with the 32nd overall pick, anything that gets a sniff as a journeyman NHLer is a win.
 
Last edited:

M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
45,287
30,123
There are more teams in the league than there used to be. The first round is now 31 spots. When I was growing up, 22 onward was the second round.
O right. Duh. I should have thought of that haha thanks for clearing that up! :)
 

LickTheEnvelope

Time to Retool... again...
Dec 16, 2008
37,985
5,349
Vancouver
Its interesting that we keep complaining about giving up draft picks for useless bandaids, but also complain that when we keep the picks we don't pick decent players ....

If the Canucks had averaged out the players wanted by people just from this forum over the last 15 years they would have drafted far far better.

They'd have missed a Boeser but would have picked guys like Perron, Kopitar, Subban, etc.
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
Its interesting that we keep complaining about giving up draft picks for useless bandaids, but also complain that when we keep the picks we don't pick decent players ....
Issue is certainly taken with a few specific picks (and Lind isn't one of them), but (1) why can't a person be bad at two different things, and anyway (2) how would the solution to questionable drafting be... drafting less? :laugh:
 

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
16,772
9,427
Issue is certainly taken with a few specific picks (and Lind isn't one of them), but (1) why can't a person be bad at two different things, and anyway (2) how would the solution to questionable drafting be... drafting less? :laugh:

allocating scouting resources to targeting less players for more intense scrutiny to be more sure of the ones you take?
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,630
5,893
Taylor Ellington is still the worst pick I've ever seen the Canucks make. Might be up there with the worst picks of any team ever.

An average sized defensive d-man from Victoria with almost zero numbers and he went 10 picks before PK Subban.

Stats:

Ellington 6'1, 200 lbs:
5 goals, 8 assists, 13 points, +5
Taken 33rd Overall

Subban 6'0, 200 lbs
15 goals, 41 assists, 56 points, +13
Taken 43rd Overall

Also that year the Canucks took Patrick White at 27 Overall over David Perron and Jamie Benn (another Victoria guy) somehow went in the 5th round.

Nuts.

What's even more nuts is that at one time we possessed 3 2nd round picks in that draft and one of those picks ended up being Wayne Simmonds.
 
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