Prospect Info: Kole Lind, Pt. II | Is not being taken, etcetera

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Bad Goalie

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i thought Lind missed most of December due to injury and started the year barely playing on a 4th line?

He had all of October and November to play after after a full off season to condition and work on strength and skating. He got 4th line time because that's where his play landed him. Yes he was hurt in December, but came back to play nearly every game of the remainder of the season when he did return. That totaled 51 of the team's 76 games and most of his points came in that span.

His situation was in no way similar to Shinkaruk's who played 74 of those 76 games his first season. The first part of that season was hard to watch as he was tuned up, knocked down, targeted, and just kept coming back every shift.
He put up 31 Pts and most of those came in the last 3rd of the season when he physically got himself back on track. He also played every one of the Comets 23 playoff games that season. His trajectory over that season was pretty amazing and it showed the next season when he lit up the AHL in the 1st half of the season and was selected to the AHL All-Star Classic. He also didn't have anywhere near the nucleus of star players Lind played with this season. Carter Bancks finished the season tied with Shinkaruk for 2nd place in team scoring. He had 39 points. That's the number Shink had when he was traded on February 22nd. Shink still led the team in Goals with 21. Man what he could have done with a lineup including Basertschi, Boucher, Goldobin, Bailey, and Rafferety. Shink on the left half boards and Boucher on the right. Holy ****. Now put Bailey in front and Baertschi in the middle (bumper) with Rafferty on top. Wow!
 
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M2Beezy

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Before I begin here let me say I never stated Lind played with top-notch AHL centers. The Comets didn't have a single one of those. They had 1 real good AHL center,but he would not be grouped with with the AHLs "top-notch centers". He is a career #2. Lind did play 1 more game with him than any other center. The next was Jasek who centered him in 1 less game. Lind centered 4 games himself in addition to playing games with 6 other middle men, none of whom are top notch AHL centers. IN fact most on that list rate somewhere between poor or worse AHL centers.

In October, Lind played the 1st 6 games on this line Boucher/Camper/Lind
Game 1 - 2 assists on 2 goals by Boucher on regualr shifts.
Game 2 - O PTs, but Boucher scored a goal assisted by Camper and another on the PP
Game 3 - 1 assist on a Boucher goal on a regular shift.
Game 4 - 1 assist on a Camper goal on a regular shift.
Scored 1 PPG assisted by Goldobin and MacEwen
Game 5 - 1 assist on a Boucher goal on a regular shift.
Game 6 - scored a goal assisted by Boucher and Camper on a regular shift albeit an empty netter.
That's 6GP with 7 Pts
2G (1 ENG with Camper and Lind assisting/1 PPG)
5A on 4 goals by Boucher and 1 by Camper)
I believe if this line had been kept together for most of the season, Lind would have had a very good season points wise. Unlike others who float on a good line like Dahlen did, Kole would work, could pass the puck, and knew how to get to the net when things were happening away from him, and could hit the net when given the puck when he got to those spots. He was an opportunist, but he worked to for those chances. He also dug the corners. His defensive end play needs lots of work.

Game 7 - Gaudette appeared and Lind found himself on new line Baertschi/Gaudette/Lind.
O PTs.

Game 8 - Perron replaced Gaudette. New line is Baertschi/Perron/Lind.
Lind scored 1 Goal assisted by Rafferty and Perron on a regular shift.
Camper was injured in this game. It was 10/30.

Game 9 - New line of Bailey/Perron/Lind. The team is shut out by Providence.
O PTs.

Game 10 - New line. Bancks/Hamilton/Lind. Cull was not pleased with Lind's 2-way game so he paired him up with the checking line. The team is shut out by Rochester. O PTs.
Game 11 - New line. Bancks/Malone/Lind. O PTs.

Game 12 - New line of Goldobin/Graovac/Lind. The checking lessons are over.
1 assist on a PPG by Eliot.
Game 13 - Goldobin/Graovac/Lind. O PTs.

Graovac is recalled and gets injured in Vancouver. Will be off the Comets roster until 2/29/20.

Game 14 - New line of Goldobin/Hamilton/Lind. O PTs

Game 15 - New line of Bailey/Jasek/Lind
1 Assist on Boucher PPG and 1 assist on Bailey PPG
Game 16 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind. O PTs

from game 7 - game 16 Lind has skate with 8 different line combinations and played with 2 of those lines twice each.

In the 10 games Lind scored 1 Goal on a shift with his line of Baertschi and Perron
Recorded 3 assists on PPGs by:
Eliot
Boucher
Bailey
1G/3 A/10 GP (3 of the points on the PP)
Boucher and Bailey accounting for 2 of the 4 PTs

Game 17 - Camper returns to the lineup. It's Nov 20.
New line of Bailey/Camper/Lind. O Pts.
Game 18 - Bailey/Camper/Lind. Camper has a 3 point night with 2 PP assists and an even strength goal of his own. Bailey and Lind O PTs.
Game 19 - Bailey/Camper/Lind. Lind 2 PTs.
Lind 1 assist on Gadjovich goal. Camper also an assist.
Lind 1 assist on Goldobin PPG.
3 games with this line and he gets 2 PTS:
1 Pt (Assist) with Camper on Gadjovich goal on a line change.
1Pt (Assist) on a PPG by Goldobin.

Game 20 - New line. Roussel/Camper/Lind. O PTs.
Game 21 - Roussel/Camper/Lind.
1 Goal assisted by Camper and Roussel on a regular shift.
2 GP with this line and he gets 1 PT, a Goal.

December 1 (3rd month of the season).
Game 22 - New line. Perron/Camper/ Lind
O PTs.

Game 23 - Bailey/Camper Lind put back together.
1 Assist on Bailey goal on a regular shift.
Game 24 - Bailey/Camper/Lind
O PTs

Game 25 - Camper goes with Goldobin/Camper/MacEwen on 12/9.
New line. Bailey/Jasek/Lind. 3 PTs.
2 goals/1 assist. All on the PP.
Lind from Boucher and Baertschi
Lind from Baertschi and Rafferty
Bailey from Lind and Baertschi
Game 26 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind. 2 PTs
1 assist on goal by Jasek. Bailey also assisted on a regular shift.
1 PPG from Rafferety and Baertschi.
Game 27 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind
O PTs.
3 game run with this line 5 PTS
2 PPG from Boucher and Baertschi/Baertschi and Rafferty
1 PPG from Rafferty and Baertschi
1 Assist on Bailey PPG also assited by Baertschi
1 Assist on a regular shift goal by Jasek also assisted by Bailey.


Game 28 - reunited with Camper again on 12/14.
Bailey/Camper/Lind.
O PTs.

Game 29 - Bailey /Jasek/Lind back together. 2PTs.
1 PPG from Baertschi and Rafferty.
1 PP assist on Boucher goal also assisted by Rafferty.
Game 30 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind. 1 PT.
1 Goal assisted by Rafferty at even strength.
Game 31 - Bailey/Jasek/Bailey.
O PTs.
Game 32 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind. 1 PT
1 Assist on Jasek Goal also assisted by Bailey on a regular shift.

Game 33 - New Line. Goldobin/Jasek/Lind. 1 PT.
1 Goal from Juolevi and Jasek on a regular shift.
Game 34 - Goldobin/Jasek/Lind.
O PTs.
Game 35 - Goldobin/Jasek/Lind.
O PTs.
3 games with this line 1PT, Goal on a regular shift.

Game 36 - Back with Camper (1/4/20)
Goldobin/Camper/Lind. 1PT.
1 Assist on Goal by Boucher on a line change.

Game 37 - Camper is a Vet Scratch. Short a center Lind moves into the middle.
New Line. Bailey/Lind/Goldobin. 1 PT
1 Assist on Bailey goal with Rafferty also assisting on a regular shift.
Goldobin would score 2 regular shift goals but Bailey and Lind did not assist on either of them.

Kole Lind scored 14 goals on the season.
Game 38 Bailey/Lind/Goldobin. 2 PTs.
1 Assist on Bailey's 2nd goal with Rafferty also assisting on a regular shift.
1 Assist on Bailey's 3rd goal with Goldobin also assisting on a regular shift.
Bailey had the hat trick with Rafferty assisting on his 1st goal, a PPG.

Game 39 - Camper is back and the line with Bailey is reunited. 1/11/20
Bailey/Camper/Lind. O PTS.
Team is shut out by Belleville. Team stinks up the ice in Utica.
That lasted 1 game.

Game 4o - Bailey/Jasek/Lind back together. 1 PT.
1 Assist on Bailey's 2nd goal, a PPG, with Rafferty also assisting.
Bailey had a hat trick but the 1st was a PPG from Rafferty and Goldobin and the 2nd was a regular shift goal assisted by Brisebois.
Jasek also scored at even strength, but assisted by Boucher and Rafferty. That was 4 goals by the linemates, but Lind was the only one to pick up a point other than the goal scorer. Go figure!
Game 41 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind. 3 PTs
1 Goal from Bailey
1 Assist on Bailey's 1st goal
1 Assist on Bailey's 3rd Goal, an ENG.
Bailey another hat trick
Game 42 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind. 2 PTs
1 Goal, a PPG, l assisted by Juolevi and Goldobin.
1 Assist on Jasek goal also assisted by Bailey on a regular shift.
Game 43 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind.
O PTs.
Game 44 - Bailey/Jasek/Lind. 1 PT.
1 Assist on Jasek goal with Bailey also assisting on a regular shift.

Game 45 - New line. Bailey/Stevens/Lind
O PTs.

Game 46 - New line. Gadjovich/Perron/Lind.
O PTs.

Game 47 -Camper back with Lind.
Perron/Camper/Lind. 1 PT.
1 Assist on Goldobin PPG with Rafferty also assisting.
Game 48 - Perron/Camper/Lind
O PTs. Camper did pick up a PP point.

Game 49 - New line. Pope/Stevens/ Lind.
O PTs.

Game 50 - New line. Goldobin/Stevens/Lind.
O PTs.

Game 51 - New line. Goldobin/Jasek/Lind. 1 PT.
1 Assist on Baertschi PPG with Boucher also assisting.

Game 52 - Lind back in the middle of another new line.
Goldobin/Lind/Boucher.
O PTs. Goldobon and Boucher both scored even strength goals but nothing from Lind.

Game 53 - New line. Goldobin/Jasek/ Lind.
O PTs.

Game 54 - New line. Bailey/Stevens/Lind. 1PT
1 Goal from Stevens and Bailey.
Bailey scored a PPG and an even strength goal assisted only by Jasek.
Game 55 - Bailey/Stevens/Lind.
O PTs.

Game 56 - New line. Bailey/Hamilton/Lind. 2 PTs.
1 Assist on Hamilton goal on a regular shift.
1 Assist on Bailey goal with Hamilton also assisting on a regular shift.
***Boucher recorded 5 points (3 goals and 2 assists) in this game to set a new single season Comets record for points breaking his own record from the previous season.
The Comets scored 7 goals and all were at even strength.
Game 57 - Bailey/Hamilton Lind.
O PTs.
Game 58 - Bailey/Hamilton/Lind.
O PTs.
Game 59 - Bailey/Hamilton/Lind.
O PTs.
Game 60 - Bailey /Hamilton/Lind. 1 PT. and it had 0 to do with his line.
1 Goal, the OT GWG assisted by Rafferty. This one had to be one of the easiest goals he's ever scored. Rafferty made a move crossing the blueline that sent him in nearly alone. He beat the lone man back and then drew the goalie to him and then slipped it tape to tape to Lind for the easy open net bang in winner.
Game 61 - Bailey/Hamilton/Lind
O PTs.

6 GP by this line and Lind put up 3 PTs. 1 goal and 2 assists. The 2 assists came in a 7 goal blow out and the goal was explained above. This line as anemic and proved why Hamilton should never center a line above the 4th checking line. Season ends for the Comets.

Lind recorded 44 points on 14 goals and 30 Assists.
He scored 6 of his 14 goals on the PP.
1 - Assists by MacEwen/Goldobin
2 - Assists by Baertschi/Boucher
3 - Assists by Baertschi/Rafferty
4 - Assists by Baertschi/Rafferty
5 - Assists by Baertschi/Rafferty
6 - Assists by Juolevi/Goldobin
Only MacEwen and Juolevi with one assist each were not in the Top 5 team scorers.

The other 8 even strength goals were :
1 - assisted by Boucher and Camper
2 - assisted by Rafferty and Perron
3 - assisted by Camper and Roussel
4 - assisted by Rafferty
5 - assisted by Juolevi and Jasek
6 - assisted by Bailey
7 - assisted by Stevens and Bailey
8 - OT GWG assisted by Rafferty
4 of these assists came from D-men and 3 belonged to Rafferty.
2 came from Bailey, his most common opposite wing.
1 came from the center on that line, Jasek and he had 1. Considering how many games Lind played with Jasek and Bailey to only have Bailey contribute to 2 goals and Jasek 1 is not a hi-lite reel story. This is especially true when Roussel chipped in 1 with only 2 GP and Stevens contributed to 1 in only 5 GP. The thing we need to consider is that Lind's assists were mostly to the team's top scoring players.
You can see this fact in the next 2 lists.

He put up 10 of his assists on the PP.
1 - Goal by Eliot / Lind lone Assist
2 - Goal by Boucher / Lind lone Assist
3 - Goal by Bailey / Goldobin also assisted
4 - Goal by Goldobin / Camper also assisted
5 - Goal by Bailey / Baertschi also assisted
6 - Goal by Boucher / Rafferty also assisted
7 - Goal by Bailey/ Baertschi also assisted
8 - Goal by Bailey / Rafferty also assisted
9 - goal by Goldobin / Rafferty also assisted
10 - Goal by Baertschi / Boucher also assisted
Only Eliot was the odd man on this list of goal scorers and none of those who also picked up assists on these goals were not members of the elite point recorders.

The other 20 were on goals by and also assisted by:
1 - Boucher - 2nd assist by Camper
2 - Boucher - 2nd assist by Jasek
3 - Boucher - Lind lone assist
4 - Camper - Lind lone assist
5 - Boucher - 2nd assist Blujus
6 - Gadjovich - 2nd assist Camper
7 - Baertschi - 2nd assist Boucher
8 - Bailey - 2nd assist Camper
9 - Jasek - 2nd assist Bailey
10 - Jasek - 2nd assist Bailey
11 - Boucher - Lind lone assist
12 - Bailey - 2nd assist Rafferty
13 - Bailey - 2nd assist Goldobin
14 - Bailey - 2nd assist Goldobin
15 - Bailey - Lind lone assist
16 - Bailey -Lind lone assist
17 - Jasek - 2nd assist Bailey
18 - Jasek - 2nd assist Bailey
19 - Hamilton - Lind lone assist
20 - Bailey - 2nd assist Hamilton
There's 20 goals here and only Gadjovich and Hamilton were outliers. Jasek had 4 of the 20 but he was the center with Bailey and Lind and they were instrumental in setting up those 4 goals as both assisted on all 4 of them.
The most interseting stat here to my mind is that Boucher only played 6 games on Kole's line and was set up by Kole 4 times and a 5th on a line change. Bailey played 32 games with Kole and only managed 7. It's a testimony to how Boucher finds the open spots and finishes while Bailey spends way too much time trying to go it alone.

Lind lined up with 8 different centers and took to the middle himself for a bit.
1 - Camper was his #1 with 19 games.
2 - Jasek was right behind him at #2 with 18 games.
3 - Hamilton 8
4 - Stevens 5
5 - Perrron 3
6 - Graovac 2
7 - Gaudette 1
8 - Malone 1
For those who are adding these up you will be 4 short. That's because Lind himself played 4 games at center. His production with Camper was 13 even strength points. He only recorded 8 even strength points with Jasek. When you add in his 16 PP points, you get 37 of his 44 points. So, 7 came with his other lines in 24 GP.

He had 9 different LWs with Bailey's 32 games topping the list.
2 - Goldobin - 11
3 - Boucher - 6
4 - Perron - 3
5 - Baertschi -2
6 - Bancks - 2
7 - Roussel - 2
8 - Gadjovich - 1
9 - Pope - 1

This was an in depth look at Kole Lind's 2019-20 abbreviated season. The facts don't lie here. His production came from the time he spent on the ice with the Comets top 5 point producers and the center who finished 3 points behind Kole's #6 finish. Camper played 13 fewer games than Kole.

If the Comets have a season in 2021-21, Kole will not have the array of top notch goal scorers and play making wings that they had this past season. In fact the only one of the top 5 from whom he benefited most that might be here is Bailey. No Boucher, Baertschi, Goldobin, or Rafferty to help pad his point totals. He will be counted upon as becoming one of the players who has to grow quickly and move to the top of this year's crop. I am not sure he can do that. If he can't play this season, I am afraid his chances fall off a cliff. This season is really make or break for his NHL chances.
Source??
 

Bad Goalie

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The Bad Goalie extensive game by game lineups and stats. 100% as the games were played and I've seen every one of them.

Is that okay with you? Want to argue with any of it? Go research it yourself and curse yourself for wasting the hours of time it will take you to discover I was accurate. That would be if you could even find all of it.

Have fun. LOL LOl!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

VanJack

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The reality is that all young hockey players mature at different rates. A guy who looks like he'll never figure it out at 19, can sometimes turn the corner on an NHL career by the time he's 24. Would Brogran Rafferty have been good enough to even be a pro player at 21, much less an AHL star and one of the highest scoring d-man in the league? Not likely.

When Alex Burrows was plying his trade with the Columbia Inferno of the ECHL....did anyone predict he'd end up playing with the Sedins and scoring some of the biggest goals in Canucks playoff history?. Ah, no.

So while Kole Lind and Oli Jolevi might look like they're wallowing through quicksand at times right now, you just never know. We might be having an entirely different dialogue by the time they're 24 or 25.
 

Bad Goalie

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The reality is that all young hockey players mature at different rates. A guy who looks like he'll never figure it out at 19, can sometimes turn the corner on an NHL career by the time he's 24. Would Brogran Rafferty have been good enough to even be a pro player at 21, much less an AHL star and one of the highest scoring d-man in the league? Not likely.

When Alex Burrows was plying his trade with the Columbia Inferno of the ECHL....did anyone predict he'd end up playing with the Sedins and scoring some of the biggest goals in Canucks playoff history?. Ah, no.

So while Kole Lind and Oli Jolevi might look like they're wallowing through quicksand at times right now, you just never know. We might be having an entirely different dialogue by the time they're 24 or 25.


If they aren't showing that promise a lot sooner than 24 or 25, that turnaround won't be with Vancouver, not if Benning is still there. Ask Boucher, Baertschi, Goldobin, etc. He doesn't have the patience to wait that long and neither would most teams. Maybe a replacement might not hold out much longer either. That's how Vancouver has been able to take shots on players other teams have already given up on - Baertschi, Goldobin, Boucher, Vey, Granlund, etc.

Olli is already make or break and Lind has one more year having to produce without a surrounding cast of the AHL's best fellow wingers. If he regresses without them, his stock drops like a rock.

You also have to recognize that Lind and Bailey never went up against their opponent's best. They were not first line players. The way things are at the moment they would become 1st line. An even tougher row to hoe.
 
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Pip

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You can’t really compare late bloomers like Burrows and Rafferty to high draft picks like Juolevi and Lind. Stagnation for the later group into their mid twenties typically means they will bust. If they do find their game it will be with a different team.
 

Bad Goalie

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You can’t really compare late bloomers like Burrows and Rafferty to high draft picks like Juolevi and Lind. Stagnation for the later group into their mid twenties typically means they will bust. If they do find their game it will be with a different team.

Yep, on the same page my man. That's what I said.
 

VanJack

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You can’t really compare late bloomers like Burrows and Rafferty to high draft picks like Juolevi and Lind. Stagnation for the later group into their mid twenties typically means they will bust. If they do find their game it will be with a different team.
I'm not really getting it....what does it matter where a kid is drafted when it comes to being a 'late bloomer'?

I guess the theory is that un-drafted guys like Burrows and Rafferty work harder at their craft and are more determined to prove they belong in the NHL

But where does it say that players drafted in the first and second rounds can't show the same kind of work rate and willingness to do whatever it takes to make it in the NHL-- even it takes them two or three seasons? Of course there's no reason they can't.
 

Peter10

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I'm not really getting it....what does it matter where a kid is drafted when it comes to being a 'late bloomer'?

I guess the theory is that un-drafted guys like Burrows and Rafferty work harder at their craft and are more determined to prove they belong in the NHL

But where does it say that players drafted in the first and second rounds can't show the same kind of work rate and willingness to do whatever it takes to make it in the NHL-- even it takes them two or three seasons? Of course there's no reason they can't.

Early picks are normally close to NHL ready, if they dont make it within a few years it usually means their development is stuck. If there is barely any improvment from the age 18 to 22, chances are the player wont get any better.
Late picks are far away from the NHL and need constant improvement, if you a player shows that until 22-23 it is reasonable to expect he might still develop further at the ages of 24-25.
 

The Iron Goalie

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I don't think I can agree with the idea Lind has stagnated since he was drafted. His game improved, and production exploded in his draft +1 WHL season. His 1st AHL season was tough, but still a valuable learning experience. This season he didn't make a quantum leap forward, but he took a step or two in the right direction for sure.

We'll see if he continues to improve this season (if there is an AHL season), but I'm actually fine with his progression so far.
 

Blue and Green

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His situation was in no way similar to Shinkaruk's who played 74 of those 76 games his first season. The first part of that season was hard to watch as he was tuned up, knocked down, targeted, and just kept coming back every shift.
He put up 31 Pts and most of those came in the last 3rd of the season when he physically got himself back on track. He also played every one of the Comets 23 playoff games that season. His trajectory over that season was pretty amazing and it showed the next season when he lit up the AHL in the 1st half of the season and was selected to the AHL All-Star Classic. He also didn't have anywhere near the nucleus of star players Lind played with this season. Carter Bancks finished the season tied with Shinkaruk for 2nd place in team scoring. He had 39 points. That's the number Shink had when he was traded on February 22nd. Shink still led the team in Goals with 21. Man what he could have done with a lineup including Basertschi, Boucher, Goldobin, Bailey, and Rafferety. Shink on the left half boards and Boucher on the right. Holy ****. Now put Bailey in front and Baertschi in the middle (bumper) with Rafferty on top. Wow!

Shinkaruk scored on 20% of his shots on goal in his 45 games with Utica during his second season. Inevitable shooting % regression occurred thereafter and he never again compiled goals and points at the same rate in the AHL, amplifying why his NHL career consisted of 15 games and why he couldn't even get a two-way contract last season. (Bailey scored on 20% this season and likewise figures to be re-introduced to the downside of shooting % vagaries next season.) Lind might not turn out any better than Shinkaruk, but he's not any less of a prospect than Shinkaruk was at the same stage.
 

tyhee

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Shinkaruk scored on 20% of his shots on goal in his 45 games with Utica during his second season. Inevitable shooting % regression occurred thereafter and he never again compiled goals and points at the same rate in the AHL, amplifying why his NHL career consisted of 15 games and why he couldn't even get a two-way contract last season. (Bailey scored on 20% this season and likewise figures to be re-introduced to the downside of shooting % vagaries next season.) Lind might not turn out any better than Shinkaruk, but he's not any less of a prospect than Shinkaruk was at the same stage.

1. Where can one find AHL shooting percentages?

I'm interesting in looking at what they were for both players, and in general for other players as well.

2. You have an interesting take. The reasoning you stated was simply that Shinkaruk's 2015-16 shooting percentage was unsustainably high so he wasn't any better prospect than Lind is now.

Obviously at first glance to those of us who don't see Comets games, one starts with the view that someone who was an AHL all-star in 2016 with 51 pts in 62 AHL games and been called up more than once for 8 NHL games and who was a higher regarded junior rates more highly as a prospect than the less highly regarded junior who 2 seasons after leaving junior has a total of 62 pts in 118 games (44 pts in 61 game in 2019-20) with no hint of being on the callup list.

I'm sure you haven't included all of your reasoning as obviously the little bit stated can't be enough to base that opinion on. Could you give more detail on what it is about Lind that makes him as good a prospect now as Shinkaruk was four years ago?
 

Blue and Green

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1. Where can one find AHL shooting percentages?

I'm interesting in looking at what they were for both players, and in general for other players as well.

2. You have an interesting take. The reasoning you stated was simply that Shinkaruk's 2015-16 shooting percentage was unsustainably high so he wasn't any better prospect than Lind is now.

Obviously at first glance to those of us who don't see Comets games, one starts with the view that someone who was an AHL all-star in 2016 with 51 pts in 62 AHL games and been called up more than once for 8 NHL games and who was a higher regarded junior rates more highly as a prospect than the less highly regarded junior who 2 seasons after leaving junior has a total of 62 pts in 118 games (44 pts in 61 game in 2019-20) with no hint of being on the callup list.

I'm sure you haven't included all of your reasoning as obviously the little bit stated can't be enough to base that opinion on. Could you give more detail on what it is about Lind that makes him as good a prospect now as Shinkaruk was four years ago?

Shooting percentages are quite easy to find in the Stats section of the AHL's web site.

Shinkaruk and Lind (birthdays Oct 13 and Oct 16) were drafted on approximately the same tier, produced about equally in their D+1 seasons, both struggled in their AHL rookie seasons, both improved in their second seasons-- I've already explained that Shinkaruk's goals total was propped by unsustainable shooting. There were doubts expressed about his 200-foot game and his ability to handle physicality, just as there are legitimate doubts about Lind's skating and strength. Lind has the type of lanky build that seems on average to take a bit more time to develop, so even if Shinkaruk was slightly ahead of Lind in D+3 I don't think that means that Shinkaruk was a better prospect. Shinkaruk being traded for Markus Granlund was an indicator of what the Canucks thought of his probable career arc.

Watching the games really helps. You only need to go back a few pages in this thread to find me explaining that Lind's lofty place (8th) in the AHL scoring race in mid- January exceeded his actual ability, that he was a second-line calibre of player this season rather than a top player. Almost on cue his points per game and place in the scoring race declined over the following two months. I wasn't watching the AHL during Shinkaruk's stint in Utica but I suspect that the flaws wouldn't have been too difficult to spot.
 

Bad Goalie

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Shinkaruk scored on 20% of his shots on goal in his 45 games with Utica during his second season. Inevitable shooting % regression occurred thereafter and he never again compiled goals and points at the same rate in the AHL, amplifying why his NHL career consisted of 15 games and why he couldn't even get a two-way contract last season. (Bailey scored on 20% this season and likewise figures to be re-introduced to the downside of shooting % vagaries next season.) Lind might not turn out any better than Shinkaruk, but he's not any less of a prospect than Shinkaruk was at the same stage.

Maybe not, but he sure was a better player during that 45 game span and he never saw anything like the players Lind has been attached to. Gaunce was his center.

I don't have any negative feelings towards Kole. I simply said his age was not that big of a deal. There are a lot of kids who enter the AHL at 19 and turn 20 before the required December date. A lot of them do much better in year one than Kole did.

I also stand by my opinion that he is going to have to produce at an even better rate than he did last season and t will be without the 4 top shelf forwards he got to play with this season and most of it on the 2nd line. He will also probably have to do it on the 1st line vs the best the other teams have to offer. He has not had any success when attached to lesser forwards than Baertschi, Boucher, Goldobin ,and Bailey, not to mention being on the ice with Rafferty for a host of his shifts. As you said, he gobbled up a lot of points being on a highly successful PP as well.

Oh, and right now there are no top quality centers of any kind inked for the roster. I fear Covid is going to see a lot of those AHL level tweeners head to Europe for a season. Right now the only signed center is Hamilton. If John Stevens, Lukas, Jasek, DavidPope, Seamus Malone, and Wacey Hamilton are Johnson's idea of an AHL team's top centers, I feel sorry for any wings looking to make a claim as top NHL prospect.

I hope he does it. It will earn him a deserved shot at the big show.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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Reid Boucher, just now on 1040, said Lind is a chippy player, that opponents hate. Skill, size, skating, scoring, and nasty. I like hearing he’s a prickly player. I wonder if the team is holding off bringing him up, because he’s still physically developing, and his style of play (chippy pain in the arse) is better suited to a fully developed guy?
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,626
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Shinkaruk and Lind (birthdays Oct 13 and Oct 16) were drafted on approximately the same tier, produced about equally in their D+1 seasons, both struggled in their AHL rookie seasons, both improved in their second seasons-- I've already explained that Shinkaruk's goals total was propped by unsustainable shooting. There were doubts expressed about his 200-foot game and his ability to handle physicality, just as there are legitimate doubts about Lind's skating and strength. Lind has the type of lanky build that seems on average to take a bit more time to develop, so even if Shinkaruk was slightly ahead of Lind in D+3 I don't think that means that Shinkaruk was a better prospect. Shinkaruk being traded for Markus Granlund was an indicator of what the Canucks thought of his probable career arc.

I agree. Shinkaruk wasn't that small by today's NHL standards but wasn't as fast and shifty to get back not developing other aspects of his game. Lind at least has the type of frame and game that you could put on the bottom lines at the NHL level. But the ability to skate and win puck battles is paramount.
 
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VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
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Frankly, other than a statistical comparison in their first couple of AHL seasons, I don't really see much in common between Lind and Shinkaruk.

Shinkaruk was really mostly a perimeter player, and his skating seemed to regress every year he spent as a pro. Lind is a physical agitator who goes to the high traffic areas and plays like he has a burr under his saddle.

According to my count, Shinkaruk has drifted to his third for fourth NHL organization in the past few seasons. And spent part of last year with the Charlotte Checkers, posting underwhelming numbers in the AHL. Then it was on to the KHL, where he scored just four times in 20 games. He's probably well on his way to being out of hockey altogether.

Not sure what happened to him, but he seemed to regress every year. Maybe the hip injuries were a factor, but who knows?

So even the most bearish posters on Lind, have to expect a better career trajectory than that.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
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Still stand on my prediction
He would make his nhl debut after his ELC expires
And he would be come a full time nhler by 2021-22
How much will Lind get paid on his first NHL level contract?
Will he contribute more than that salary costs?
 

Lindgren

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
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The Bad Goalie extensive game by game lineups and stats. 100% as the games were played and I've seen every one of them.

Is that okay with you? Want to argue with any of it? Go research it yourself and curse yourself for wasting the hours of time it will take you to discover I was accurate. That would be if you could even find all of it.

Have fun. LOL LOl!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was kidding. LOL indeed.
 

David71

Registered User
Dec 27, 2008
16,962
1,398
vancouver
Reid Boucher, just now on 1040, said Lind is a chippy player, that opponents hate. Skill, size, skating, scoring, and nasty. I like hearing he’s a prickly player. I wonder if the team is holding off bringing him up, because he’s still physically developing, and his style of play (chippy pain in the arse) is better suited to a fully developed guy?
so a bit of brad marchand? minus some dirty antics? whats the chance of kole lind suiting up for a playoff game if nucks had an injury in their bottom 6?
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
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so a bit of brad marchand? minus some dirty antics? whats the chance of kole lind suiting up for a playoff game if nucks had an injury in their bottom 6?
Maybe next year? He’s still physically got some maturing to do. Truly great players, like Petey and Quinn, can be great in the NHL even though they clearly have physically not matured. I think Lind is a good player, who will need to be fully a man to compete against the men of the NHL.
How did Jersey do with rushing a physically immature (but fabulously talented) Jack Hughes into the NHL?
 
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