Kitchener Rangers 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 3)

[MatthewsMoustache]

Connor Bunnaman with his first NHL goal against the Bruins tonight

 

[EvenSteven]

3 in 3 again this weekend. I’d start Pfiel vs NB and Ingham gets the back to back with Guelph.

Every point counts in this conference.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

I'm looking at Colin Purcell as an early candidate for the starting goalie spot next season. ranked 6th in NA goalies despite his underwhelming numbers in the USHL, so they obviously see that something's there. his team in Youngstown is also not great, and his Cleveland minor hockey team was really really bad IIRC.

maybe he's been waiting to come here until he could come in as the starter

 

[GeoBlue]

I'm looking at Colin Purcell as an early candidate for the starting goalie spot next season. ranked 6th in NA goalies despite his underwhelming numbers in the USHL, so they obviously see that something's there. his team in Youngstown is also not great, and his Cleveland minor hockey team was really really bad IIRC.

maybe he's been waiting to come here until he could come in as the starter

Personally, I can see Purcell and Wu coming next year. Should Ingham come back as an OA, the 2 would rotate as BU and off night, Ingham giving pointers until the trade deadline and then getting traded leaving the 2 to fight for the #1 starter position.

 

[EvenSteven]

Personally, I can see Purcell and Wu coming next year. Should Ingham come back as an OA, the 2 would rotate as BU and off night, Ingham giving pointers until the trade deadline and then getting traded leaving the 2 to fight for the #1 starter position.

But:

Should Ingham come back as an OA, he needs to be dealt ASAP for two reasons:

1) If there’s an asset that’s guaranteed to lose their value as the season wears on, it’s a goalie. Even more so for an OA goalie. Therefore, the minute he’s returned, if he’s returned, he needs to be dealt to maximize his return.

Lord knows we need the best return possible for anyone we deal since our draft pick cupboard is a shambles (a league worst one 2nd over the next five drafts).

If I’m MM, I’m having talks right away with teams who may need a #1 and I try to have a deal in place upon his return. That would help if his NHL team knows he’ll be going into a good situation. They may be quicker to assign him back to the OHL.

For instance, Oshawa dealt for Kooy who’ll return next year for his OA season. However, if Ingham is back in the league and available, you take him over Kooy every day if the week and twice on Sunday.


2) If we’re going to get Wu and Purcell to report, we have to promise them minutes. If I’m either one of those guys, and I have options, I’m not reporting to a team to be swapped out between being the backup and sitting in the press box for the first half of the year. If I’m them, the promise of sharing duties after an Ingham deadline trade won’t cut it either.

What happens if the Rangers find themselves in the same boat Guelph does this year? Do you think MM deals Ingham? I doubt it. If I’m these guys, I report when I know I’m sharing the net with each other. 50/50 split. That’s 34 games each with a few more appearances if guys are pulled or injured.

We’re rebuilding and preparing for an all in year in 21-22. We have to get the net straightened out by then. Screw around, and we’ll be forced to spend assets on goaltending instead of other areas.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

But:

Should Ingham come back as an OA, he needs to be dealt ASAP for two reasons:

1) If there’s an asset that’s guaranteed to lose their value as the season wears on, it’s a goalie. Even more so for an OA goalie. Therefore, the minute he’s returned, if he’s returned, he needs to be dealt to maximize his return.

Lord knows we need the best return possible for anyone we deal since our draft pick cupboard is a shambles (a league worst one 2nd over the next five drafts).

If I’m MM, I’m having talks right away with teams who may need a #1 and I try to have a deal in place upon his return. That would help if his NHL team knows he’ll be going into a good situation. They may be quicker to assign him back to the OHL.

For instance, Oshawa dealt for Kooy who’ll return next year for his OA season. However, if Ingham is back in the league and available, you take him over Kooy every day if the week and twice on Sunday.


2) If we’re going to get Wu and Purcell to report, we have to promise them minutes. If I’m either one of those guys, and I have options, I’m not reporting to a team to be swapped out between being the backup and sitting in the press box for the first half of the year. If I’m them, the promise of sharing duties after an Ingham deadline trade won’t cut it either.

What happens if the Rangers find themselves in the same boat Guelph does this year? Do you think MM deals Ingham? I doubt it. If I’m these guys, I report when I know I’m sharing the net with each other. 50/50 split. That’s 34 games each with a few more appearances if guys are pulled or injured.

We’re rebuilding and preparing for an all in year in 21-22. We have to get the net straightened out by then. Screw around, and we’ll be forced to spend assets on goaltending instead of other areas.

if it’s Purcell and Wu, I think Purcell is looking at 40 starts. he’s played junior hockey in the best league in the states below the NCAA. Wu is (maybe) playing midget AAA according to another poster on here earlier on. Purcell is also a guy who could potentially be an NHL drafted goalie by then

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

19. This season, Kitchener got G Jacob Ingham, F Liam Hawel, F Serron Noel and D Holden Wale for five second round draft picks, six thirds, one fifth, sixth, eighth, 15th and depth F Ryan Stepien. That's fewer seconds than the Tomasino package

from Brown’s OHL 21 today. yea Stepien and 6 3rds in there too but wow Ingham, Hawel & Noel

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I don't see Inham back as an OA. Ukka Pekka Lukkonen had a great season with sudbury, but didn't make his AHL team so they sent him to the ECHL instead of an OA season. I just think he's the kind of goalie that won't necessarily benefit from an OA season and is likely to move onto the pro ranks one way or another, unless he really wants to come back.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

I'm looking at Colin Purcell as an early candidate for the starting goalie spot next season. ranked 6th in NA goalies despite his underwhelming numbers in the USHL, so they obviously see that something's there. his team in Youngstown is also not great, and his Cleveland minor hockey team was really really bad IIRC.

maybe he's been waiting to come here until he could come in as the starter

I looked at Purchell a while back and agree....good goalie on a mid to low team. Hope he's still in the loop with MM. I have a feeling that Wu is.

 

[EvenSteven]

19. This season, Kitchener got G Jacob Ingham, F Liam Hawel, F Serron Noel and D Holden Wale for five second round draft picks, six thirds, one fifth, sixth, eighth, 15th and depth F Ryan Stepien. That's fewer seconds than the Tomasino package

from Brown’s OHL 21 today. yea Stepien and 6 3rds in there too but wow Ingham, Hawel & Noel

For me, apples and oranges. Oshawa came out the big winner at the deadline. They didn’t have to move high end youth to get there.

They are better now than they were before trading began, and they get an extra year of Tomasino and (likely) two extra years of Stepien who could eventually be a late bloomer (Cole Carter-ish?).

Tomasino could be the best pure scorer in the league next year - in a year they aim to host.

The only way this goes sideways for Oshawa is if Tomasino sticks in the NHL next year.

 

[ohloutsider]

I don't see Inham back as an OA. Ukka Pekka Lukkonen had a great season with sudbury, but didn't make his AHL team so they sent him to the ECHL instead of an OA season. I just think he's the kind of goalie that won't necessarily benefit from an OA season and is likely to move onto the pro ranks one way or another, unless he really wants to come back.

For goalies it is more about the prospects in front of him and does his NHL team have room for him next year? Patterson was a good goalie that there was nowhere for him so signed him and sent him back. So Ingham with one more year of eligibility gives them some options.

 

[Jives]

Goalie depth for Kings.

NHL
Quick - under contract for 2020-21
Campbell - under contract for 2020-21

AHL
Peterson - under contract for 2020-21
Villalta - under contract for 2020-21

ECHL
Kehler - contract ends this year

UNSIGNED
Ingham OHL - 19-4-4 /.926 / 2.59 - 6th round 2018
David Hrenak NCHC - 5-7-4 / .890 / 3.12 - 5th round 2018
Lucas Parik WHL - 11-3-2 / .914 / 2.73 - 3rd round 2019

Parik as an 18 year old 98% returns to WHL.

Kehler is putting up decent numbers but not great in the ECHL. 22 years old and never drafted. I think it comes down to what the Kings think they have in this kid. If they sign him and want to develop him more he starts in the ECHL and Ingham imo comes back as they have 5 goalies under contract and no way Ingham is going to ECHL to be a back up goalie. If this kid gets released Ingham takes the starting role in ECHL with a call up to AHL once in awhile due to injuries or good play.

Good news is they have 4 under contract. Bad new is that number isn’t 5 or 6.

 

[EvenSteven]

Goalie depth for Kings.

NHL
Quick - under contract for 2020-21
Campbell - under contract for 2020-21

AHL
Peterson - under contract for 2020-21
Villalta - under contract for 2020-21

ECHL
Kehler - contract ends this year

UNSIGNED
Ingham OHL - 19-4-4 /.926 / 2.59 - 6th round 2018
David Hrenak NCHC - 5-7-4 / .890 / 3.12 - 5th round 2018
Lucas Parik WHL - 11-3-2 / .914 / 2.73 - 3rd round 2019

Parik as an 18 year old 98% returns to WHL.

Kehler is putting up decent numbers but not great in the ECHL. 22 years old and never drafted. I think it comes down to what the Kings think they have in this kid. If they sign him and want to develop him more he starts in the ECHL and Ingham imo comes back as they have 5 goalies under contract and no way Ingham is going to ECHL to be a back up goalie. If this kid gets released Ingham takes the starting role in ECHL with a call up to AHL once in awhile due to injuries or good play.

Good news is they gave 4 under contract. Bad new is that number isn’t 5 or 6.

Good stuff!

With LA not being a very good team right now, I wonder if there’s any chance they move Quick at all? Is there an obvious “#1 in waiting” as there was when the Ducks moved Andersson and Gibson assumed the starting duties?

 

[HockeyPops]

Goalie depth for Kings.

NHL
Quick - under contract for 2020-21
Campbell - under contract for 2020-21

AHL
Peterson - under contract for 2020-21
Villalta - under contract for 2020-21

ECHL
Kehler - contract ends this year

UNSIGNED
Ingham OHL - 19-4-4 /.926 / 2.59 - 6th round 2018
David Hrenak NCHC - 5-7-4 / .890 / 3.12 - 5th round 2018
Lucas Parik WHL - 11-3-2 / .914 / 2.73 - 3rd round 2019

Parik as an 18 year old 98% returns to WHL.

Kehler is putting up decent numbers but not great in the ECHL. 22 years old and never drafted. I think it comes down to what the Kings think they have in this kid. If they sign him and want to develop him more he starts in the ECHL and Ingham imo comes back as they have 5 goalies under contract and no way Ingham is going to ECHL to be a back up goalie. If this kid gets released Ingham takes the starting role in ECHL with a call up to AHL once in awhile due to injuries or good play.

Good news is they gave 4 under contract. Bad new is that number isn’t 5 or 6.

You do realize that the Kings are without an ECHL affiliate? Kehler is playing out his last year of his contract for the Fort Wayne Komets (Golden Knights' affiliate). The Manchester Monarchs folded after last season.

It's a problem that muddies the waters when you talk about where Ingham will be next season, but if he can play in the OHL and give the Kings another year to get this figured out, it's quite likely that's what happens.

 

[PuckStop75]

I believe Ingham goes back into the draft if he is not signed by June 1

 

[GeoBlue]

I guess Pete DeBoer is not coming back. :-p Not that I seriously thought he would........

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

the Kings technically don’t have an ECHL team but Ingham could be loaned to another one. I would expect they only do that if the situation seems to be a perfect fit. if it’s not that, they would have to loan someone else to the ECHL or send Ingham back

 

[Jives]

You do realize that the Kings are without an ECHL affiliate? Kehler is playing out his last year of his contract for the Fort Wayne Komets (Golden Knights' affiliate). The Manchester Monarchs folded after last season.

It's a problem that muddies the waters when you talk about where Ingham will be next season, but if he can play in the OHL and give the Kings another year to get this figured out, it's quite likely that's what happens.

Kehler is in the ECHL under a Kings contract. Doesn’t matter to me if they have a ECHL team. Kehler is Kings property right now.

With the Kings not having a ECHL team this imo means Ingham has a better chance to come back as they really have 4 goalie spots to fill and not 6.

 

[HockeyPops]

With the Kings not having a ECHL team this imo means Ingham has a better chance to come back as they really have 4 goalie spots to fill and not 6.

Yes, this was my point. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Kehler is in the ECHL under a Kings contract. Doesn’t matter to me if they have a ECHL team. Kehler is Kings property right now.

With the Kings not having a ECHL team this imo means Ingham has a better chance to come back as they really have 4 goalie spots to fill and not 6.

they can loan him out to any ECHL team if there’s a fit. I suspect they will try to do that before they send him back. if they can’t find a good suitor, back he comes.

 

[Ward Cornell]

they can loan him out to any ECHL team if there’s a fit. I suspect they will try to do that before they send him back. if they can’t find a good suitor, back he comes.

While that could be an option, I suspect most NHL would reluctant to loan a goalie to another NHL's ECHL team. That team would be playing their own goalies prospects before another teams. The Raptors went through this with their prospects sitting on the bench until they got their own G-League team in the 905.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Goalie depth for Kings.

NHL
Quick - under contract for 2020-21
Campbell - under contract for 2020-21

AHL
Peterson - under contract for 2020-21
Villalta - under contract for 2020-21

ECHL
Kehler - contract ends this year

UNSIGNED
Ingham OHL - 19-4-4 /.926 / 2.59 - 6th round 2018
David Hrenak NCHC - 5-7-4 / .890 / 3.12 - 5th round 2018
Lucas Parik WHL - 11-3-2 / .914 / 2.73 - 3rd round 2019

Parik as an 18 year old 98% returns to WHL.

Kehler is putting up decent numbers but not great in the ECHL. 22 years old and never drafted. I think it comes down to what the Kings think they have in this kid. If they sign him and want to develop him more he starts in the ECHL and Ingham imo comes back as they have 5 goalies under contract and no way Ingham is going to ECHL to be a back up goalie. If this kid gets released Ingham takes the starting role in ECHL with a call up to AHL once in awhile due to injuries or good play.

Good news is they have 4 under contract. Bad new is that number isn’t 5 or 6.

If LA doesn't sign him, that might be worst case scenario for KIT fans. Then Ingham would sign with a team who doesn't have goalie depth and almost surely would be in the AHL or ECHL next year because he'd sign somewhere where there's little goalie depth and he can step in right away

 

[Petes1987]

For me, apples and oranges. Oshawa came out the big winner at the deadline. They didn’t have to move high end youth to get there.

They are better now than they were before trading began, and they get an extra year of Tomasino and (likely) two extra years of Stepien who could eventually be a late bloomer (Cole Carter-ish?).

Tomasino could be the best pure scorer in the league next year - in a year they aim to host.

The only way this goes sideways for Oshawa is if Tomasino sticks in the NHL next year.

Actually I believe Peterborough won the trade deadline. They got a huge upgrade at forward with Akil Thomas. They gave up a good forward but very few draft picks. They don’t have to go into a full rebuild next year and they retained two, 2nd round draft picks this upcoming draft. They also improved their defence with Jack York at a reasonable price. Oshawa in contrast gave up a star forward and traded for a year younger star forward for a lot of high draft picks and added a depth forward and an average goaltender. Oshawa may be better than they were before the deadline, but Peterborough is even better.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Actually I believe Peterborough won the trade deadline. They got a huge upgrade at forward with Akil Thomas. They gave up a good forward but very few draft picks. They don’t have to go into a full rebuild next year and they retained two, 2nd round draft picks this upcoming draft. They also improved their defence with Jack York at a reasonable price. Oshawa in contrast gave up a star forward and traded for a year younger star forward for a lot of high draft picks and added a depth forward and an average goaltender. Oshawa may be better than they were before the deadline, but Peterborough is even better.

You're comparing apples to oranges

The Gens made moves to be elite next year. While the Petes HAVE to win this year (about to lose everyone but Robertson after this year) and didn't address their depth at all. In a must win year they're going to have a bottom 6 that consists of Grondin/Little/Parker-Jones/Hinz/McMullen/Avon, that's really not good.

And if Hunter Jones gets hurt, forget about it, they wouldn't even win a round in the playoffs

 

[dirty12]

Petes-Gens ROS should be fun.
Little-Grondin-Hinz are all in their 4th season as bottom six; they are pretty good at it. Grondin is arguably the best checking line C in the league.
The best deadline though, may have been by Barrie as they completely re-tooled. They went from one useable 2nd to 8-2nds, 8-3rds, 5-4ths and loaded with good players having 2-3 more seasons.