Kitchener Rangers 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 2)

[bobber]

What is that comparison? Of course Murphy got away with more than Iafrate. Murphy was miles ahead in terms of his offensive game. Did he turn the puck over, yeah. But you take that knowing he was going to put up almost a PPG and open up the other team frequently with his quick feet or break out passes.

Iafrate was solid but he was never on that level offensively.

I agree with the other stuff said about Murphy but let's not pretend he wasn't elite offensively.

I always wished the coaches could have gotten more out of Murphy defensively. I am not sure they could have. Some of these players are what they are and a coach can't change them .

 

[EvenSteven]

What is that comparison? Of course Murphy got away with more than Iafrate. Murphy was miles ahead in terms of his offensive game. Did he turn the puck over, yeah. But you take that knowing he was going to put up almost a PPG and open up the other team frequently with his quick feet or break out passes.

Iafrate was solid but he was never on that level offensively.

I agree with the other stuff said about Murphy but let's not pretend he wasn't elite offensively.

Nowhere did I say Murphy wasn’t elite offensively. And nowhere did I say Iafrate was his peer as an offensive d-man.

But Murphy was also a gong show many nights in his own end and this was not corrected, or attempted to be corrected by his coach.

That was evident based on the fact it never stopped throughout his time here but rather pretty much encouraged by the repeated “We’ll take the good with the bad” point of view from the coach.

Based on the trajectory of Murphy’s career, maybe a little guidance in his time as a Ranger instead of allowing him to do whatever he wanted without repercussion would have gone a long way in his development.

 

[robertmac43]

Nowhere did I say Murphy wasn’t elite offensively. And nowhere did I say Iafrate was his peer as an offensive d-man.

But Murphy was also a gong show many nights in his own end and this was not corrected, or attempted to be corrected by his coach.

That was evident based on the fact it never stopped throughout his time here but rather pretty much encouraged by the repeated “We’ll take the good with the bad” point of view from the coach.

Based on the trajectory of Murphy’s career, maybe a little guidance in his time as a Ranger instead of allowing him to do whatever he wanted without repercussion would have gone a long way in his development.

True you didn't say that. But you did paint the players in the same light, when they were two very different cases and in that got two different sets of rules.

Murphy was a gong show for sure, still had some of the best offensive upside in the league though.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

Three in a row against three very good teams. Can the Rangers continue to play 60 minutes per game with the same intensity as that last game against Guelph? MM and team have had a few days to fine tune some more so we'll see. I like that they went to Windsor yesterday so bus legs won't be an issue. Going to miss Sebrango for a couple so the D will have to pick it up. Hopefully Ottaveinen will return. No mention in Brown's Game Day report.

 

[echothree]

4 games in 6 days. I'm guessing Ingham will start 3 out of the 4. Good test to see whether last weekend was real or a fluke. Unfortunate about the Sebrango suspension, I think that was more "2 guys getting tangled up together" than any sort of intentional slew-foot.

 

[EvenSteven]

OA F Matthew Struthers traded for 1x 2nd, 1x 3rd, 1x 6th. he had 81 points last year.

I can’t see a trade for Hawel, Meireles or Yantsis being that far off. 2nd, 3rd, 4th at best I’d say.

the way it’s going, I’m going to predict they only sell off 1 of the OAs, as well as Riley Damiani & Jacob Ingham (still not completely sold that Ingham will go however).

There’s been an amount of back-and-forth on here as to buying or selling. There were differing views on the value that our OA’s would bring in trade. I made my comparisons to what OA’s of comparable stature brought in return the past couple of years. Others pointed to the needs of contending teams and the glut of high-end OA’s that may be made available as to what would dictate trade value.

So I took a quick look. I looked at teams that I feel are contenders and should be buying at the deadline as well as teams that I feel should be selling.

As firm buyers, I have in the west London, Saginaw, and Flint. In the east I have Peterboro, Ottawa and Sudbury. I have Oshawa selling but in the market for an OA.
As sellers in the west, I have Kitchener, Sault Ste. Marie, Erie, Sarnia and Owen Sound. Guelph and Windsor tweaking at this point. In the east, I have Kingston, Hamilton, Northbay, Niagara, and Mississauga selling.

Of all the buyers across the league, I have Peterborough, Sudbury, and Ottawa as being firmly set with their overage groups. I have London who should look to upgrade two of their OA’s. They should be in the market for one high end OA and should Paul Cotter not return, a second high end OA.
Saginaw I feel should look to improve upon Webb as an overage defenseman. Flint I feel should be able to improve on Phibbs by bringing in a high-end forward. I don’t have Oshawa as an all in buyer. However, they already started selling (Antropov) and likely will Noel as well. But considering how good they are this year, I can see them upgrading on Walker’s OA spot to remain among the top four in the conference.

As far as sellers go, and the high end or better OA’s that they may make available, I have a total of 6 forwards (Josling, MacGregor, Meireles, Yantsis, Hawel, Lodnia) and 4 defensemen (Gordeev, Brahany, Ham and Landry) who may be made available by their teams. Of course, there may be others that aren’t as high end or that I missed.

Based on the needs of the teams that are buying, I think we can determine landing spots for one or two overage defenseman, and two or three overage forwards. (London may go with adding two forwards or a forward and a D).

Therefore, as others have said on here, there is a glut of high end OA’s out there with not enough landing spots for them. Therefore, it will be a buyers market for OA’s and teams will have to decide to either sell them at a drastically reduced rate or hang onto them.

As far as the Rangers go, they’ll have to decide to stand pat (in moving OA’s) or take what they can get for their OA players. As far as I’m concerned, based on our thin bank of draft picks, we cannot afford to stand pat this year and expect to be in good shape for contention going forward.

Looks to me that Stan Butler recognized this and moved Struthers for the best return that he could get avoid getting a worse return for him or not being able to move him at all.
I think that MacKenzie needs to jump on his horse and start making calls to the contending teams and try and get whatever he can for our OA’s. At this point, we should be lucky to get the return for them that NB got for Struthers.

If we only got a 2nd and 3rd each for all three, going forward, I feel we’d be a whole lot further ahead then if we stood pat. For me, a healthier bank of draft picks is better than only maybe winning a round in the playoffs this year.

Moving these players at that return may create a little egg on MacKenzie’s face. Not so much for the value that OA’s will be sold for at this deadline but more so for the fact that he seriously misread the calibre of team that we have this year that resulted in what now looks like an overpayment for Hawel.

For me, in my opinion, with all this in mind, a successful trade deadline this year for me would be moving Damiani and Ingham for good return and hopefully at least two of the OA’s.

 

[Jives]

There’s been an amount of back-and-forth on here as to buying or selling. There were differing views on the value that our OA’s would bring in trade. I made my comparisons to what OA’s of comparable stature brought in return the past couple of years. Others pointed to the needs of contending teams and the glut of high-end OA’s that may be made available as to what would dictate trade value.

So I took a quick look. I looked at teams that I feel are contenders and should be buying at the deadline as well as teams that I feel should be selling.

As firm buyers, I have in the west London, Saginaw, and Flint. In the east I have Peterboro, Ottawa and Sudbury. I have Oshawa selling but in the market for an OA.
As sellers in the west, I have Kitchener, Sault Ste. Marie, Erie, Sarnia and Owen Sound. Guelph and Windsor tweaking at this point. In the east, I have Kingston, Hamilton, Northbay, Niagara, and Mississauga selling.

Of all the buyers across the league, I have Peterborough, Sudbury, and Ottawa as being firmly set with their overage groups. I have London who should look to upgrade two of their OA’s. They should be in the market for one high end OA and should Paul Cotter not return, a second high end OA.
Saginaw I feel should look to improve upon Webb as an overage defenseman. Flint I feel should be able to improve on Phibbs by bringing in a high-end forward. I don’t have Oshawa as an all in buyer. However, they already started selling (Antropov) and likely will Noel as well. But considering how good they are this year, I can see them upgrading on Walker’s OA spot to remain among the top four in the conference.

As far as sellers go, and the high end or better OA’s that they may make available, I have a total of 6 forwards (Josling, MacGregor, Meireles, Yantsis, Hawel, Lodnia) and 4 defensemen (Gordeev, Brahany, Ham and Landry) who may be made available by their teams. Of course, there may be others that aren’t as high end or that I missed.

Based on the needs of the teams that are buying, I think we can determine landing spots for one or two overage defenseman, and two or three overage forwards. (London may go with adding two forwards or a forward and a D).

Therefore, as others have said on here, there is a glut of high end OA’s out there with not enough landing spots for them. Therefore, it will be a buyers market for OA’s and teams will have to decide to either sell them at a drastically reduced rate or hang onto them.

As far as the Rangers go, they’ll have to decide to stand pat (in moving OA’s) or take what they can get for their OA players. As far as I’m concerned, based on our thin bank of draft picks, we cannot afford to stand pat this year and expect to be in good shape for contention going forward.

Looks to me that Stan Butler recognized this and moved Struthers for the best return that he could get avoid getting a worse return for him or not being able to move him at all.
I think that MacKenzie needs to jump on his horse and start making calls to the contending teams and try and get whatever he can for our OA’s. At this point, we should be lucky to get the return for them that NB got for Struthers.

If we only got a 2nd and 3rd each for all three, going forward, I feel we’d be a whole lot further ahead then if we stood pat. For me, a healthier bank of draft picks is better than only maybe winning a round in the playoffs this year.

Moving these players at that return may create a little egg on MacKenzie’s face. Not so much for the value that OA’s will be sold for at this deadline but more so for the fact that he seriously misread the calibre of team that we have this year that resulted in what now looks like an overpayment for Hawel.

For me, in my opinion, with all this in mind, a successful trade deadline this year for me would be moving Damiani and Ingham for good return and hopefully at least two of the OA’s.

I agree but they need to sell all 3 OAs. What do I think they will do...nothing major. A minor tweak. Which puts us in not a good spot 2 years down the road when we will really want a cupboard filled of draft picks. Selling also would put us in bottom 2 to 5 (Kingston locker up last) to great a very solid 16 year old.

 

[EvenSteven]

I agree but they need to sell all 3 OAs. What do I think they will do...nothing major. A minor tweak. Which puts us in not a good spot 2 years down the road when we will really want a cupboard filled of draft picks. Selling also would put us in bottom 2 to 5 (Kingston locker up last) to great a very solid 16 year old.

Under the circumstances, I think we can move Damiani and Ingham for fair value. But if MM isn’t on the phones soon, he may lose his chance to move Ingham. I have Sudbury and Saginaw as teams who’ll look to bring in a number one. Windsor I doubt burns assets on a graduating goalie.

So if there are two teams who want to bring in a goalie, and Ingham is their 1st choice, we could get good value in a bidding war.

But, if Guelph, who has already started selling (Hawel/Lalonde), decides to continue to sell despite the standings, we could miss the boat getting large return for Ingham if Guelph decides to takes calls on Daws. If Daws goes to one of Sudbury/Saginaw, we’ll have to take what we can get for Ingham - or keep him in hopes he plays an OA season.

MM needs to get Ingham talks started ASAP in my opinion before Guelph decides to move Daws. There’s no guarantee that they keep Daws. His great season, WJC camp and all, could get him drafted and a job in minor pro next year instead of a return to Guelph for an OA season.

 

[EvenSteven]

I agree but they need to sell all 3 OAs. What do I think they will do...nothing major. A minor tweak. Which puts us in not a good spot 2 years down the road when we will really want a cupboard filled of draft picks. Selling also would put us in bottom 2 to 5 (Kingston locker up last) to great a very solid 16 year old.

I’d love to see all three moved, but it’s all about finding land spots for them now. Once the music stops on deadline day, there won’t be enough seats left for all the high end OA’s. My fear is that one or more of ours will be left without a chair.

That and MM’s wanting to be competitive every year has me believing he’s not moving all three unless he’s overwhelmed by the return - which he won’t be based on what it looks like the market will bear.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

moving Damiani, Ingham & OA of your choice allows the team to remain watchable. I believe it’s Jonathan Yantsis if anyone. Meireles has played here (at least in parts) of all 5 of his eligible years here and is now dawning a C. and it’s an awful look for MM if he gives up what he did for Hawel, only to give him up for inevitably less picks a few months later. so if it is Yantsis, the team shakes out like this barring any players returning in the trades:

Pinelli-Meireles-McDonnell
Hawel-Langdon-Valade
Petizian-Serpa-Stepien
?-Fishman-Dickerson

Vuk-Sebrango
MacPherson-Ottavainen
Bergkvist-Motew
Xhekaj

Pfeil
Torchia

I assume a forward comes back in a Damiani/Ingham trade and maybe a fringe goalie to finish out this season (Christian Purboo in Sudbury?). potential of a Mitchell Martin signing (or someone of that nature)

 

[EvenSteven]

moving Damiani, Ingham & OA of your choice allows the team to remain watchable. I believe it’s Jonathan Yantsis if anyone. Meireles has played here (at least in parts) of all 5 of his eligible years here and is now dawning a C. and it’s an awful look for MM if he gives up what he did for Hawel, only to give him up for inevitably less picks a few months later. so if it is Yantsis, the team shakes out like this barring any players returning in the trades:

Pinelli-Meireles-McDonnell
Hawel-Langdon-Valade
Petizian-Serpa-Stepien
?-Fishman-Dickerson

Vuk-Sebrango
MacPherson-Ottavainen
Bergkvist-Motew
Xhekaj

Pfeil
Torchia

I assume a forward comes back in a Damiani/Ingham trade and maybe a fringe goalie to finish out this season (Christian Purboo in Sudbury?). potential of a Mitchell Martin signing (or someone of that nature)

Who we wind up making a deal with for that one OA (if it comes to that) will determine which OA we move. They will have needs.

A Saginaw may want a top end two way forward (and a goalie) as they score a lot of goals but have trouble keeping the puck out.

A Flint has nobody near the top of the scoring race so I’d expect them to look at a high end scorer.

Popular opinion on the London boards is a need for size/physicality. Hawel keeps getting mentioned.


If we move Ingham, I’m hoping to Saginaw with an OA or Damiani with Lennox being the primary return. But if it’s to Sudbury, we likely get Purboo back as part of the package.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Jake Tortora released from Barrie... pretty good haul they got for him

 

[bobber]

Rangers got their legs going against Windsor and came out hard and won a nice road game.

 

[three dog night]

Did they quit under the old coach seems to be a different team under the new coach.

 

[bobber]

Did they quit under the old coach seems to be a different team under the new coach.

I don't think they quit. These players had respect for McKee. Personally it looks like McKee just wasn't a good coach at this level. You can see a massive difference in the confidence of the players. They are defending better. Recovering pucks better. Passing has improved 100%. Also having a number one in net stablizes the team and gives them more confidence. Overall a more exciting brand of hockey with no quit so far.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

good to see Meireles put some points up last night. hopefully for him he can continue to build on that and work towards a pro contract with Florida

 

[moose311]

and it’s an awful look for MM if he gives up what he did for Hawel, only to give him up for inevitably less picks a few months later.

I don't think it's that awful if McKenzie gets back less than he paid - when he traded for Hawel, he was getting one season's worth. If he trades him away, it's only 50-60% of a season. Unless there's an OA bidding war to drive up the price, there's no way he can get the same price that he paid.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

I don't think it's that awful if McKenzie gets back less than he paid - when he traded for Hawel, he was getting one season's worth. If he trades him away, it's only 50-60% of a season. Unless there's an OA bidding war to drive up the price, there's no way he can get the same price that he paid.

he obviously wouldn’t have got full price, but i don’t even think it would be close based on how the OA markets gone

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I agree but they need to sell all 3 OAs. What do I think they will do...nothing major. A minor tweak. Which puts us in not a good spot 2 years down the road when we will really want a cupboard filled of draft picks. Selling also would put us in bottom 2 to 5 (Kingston locker up last) to great a very solid 16 year old.

I highly doubt you get a good return and all 3 OAs. Trading Damiani is the more important move imo. There aren't going to be 3 contending teams with open OA slots looking to spend decent assets on them at this point. Maybe 1, very lucky if 2 get moved for any kind of return. If I'm not mistaken, Meireless also has a no trade clause as a former 1st rounder and could block a trade (as is rumored last year).

For trading Ingam, I'm on the fence. It kind of depends how many other trades we make, if we can't move an OA, I'd trade him, but if we move an OA or 2 and Damiani, I might keep him if the price isn't overwhelming. He's a good goalie and a real battler, the team looks more confident (even back to the beginning of the season) with him behind them than they ever did with Richardson. Keeping him might be nice for the young guys trying to develop, without having to worry about the puck going in any time they give up the puck.

 

[EvenSteven]

I highly doubt you get a good return and all 3 OAs. Trading Damiani is the more important move imo. There aren't going to be 3 contending teams with open OA slots looking to spend decent assets on them at this point. Maybe 1, very lucky if 2 get moved for any kind of return. If I'm not mistaken, Meireless also has a no trade clause as a former 1st rounder and could block a trade (as is rumored last year).

For trading Ingam, I'm on the fence. It kind of depends how many other trades we make, if we can't move an OA, I'd trade him, but if we move an OA or 2 and Damiani, I might keep him if the price isn't overwhelming. He's a good goalie and a real battler, the team looks more confident (even back to the beginning of the season) with him behind them than they ever did with Richardson. Keeping him might be nice for the young guys trying to develop, without having to worry about the puck going in any time they give up the puck.

I agree on Damiani. On Ingham, I move him too if the return is right. MM should have knowledge as to LA’s goaltending situation regarding who signed to contracts in the organization etc. That way, he could get a read on the possibility of him returning for an OA season and conduct himself accordingly in the way of conditionals if he’s moved or not moving him at all.

Your points on the advantages of keeping him make a lot of sense though. That would be a factor if it’s a proposed trade to Sudbury but if it’s a trade to Saginaw where Lennox comes our way, I do the deal regardless.

 

[sbpointer]

So is the sell off cancelled now? What a crazy year in the Western Conference

 

[Jives]

So is the sell off cancelled now? What a crazy year in the Western Conference

I think lots are still hoping the sell off is not off. Although the team is playing well right now we just don’t have the top end 19 year old talent teams that win have. In order to get those we would have to sell off too much which would hurt us for when our group of 16/17 year olds are 18/19 and this being what a lot of people believe it’s very solid core that could improve with some adds if we trade are vets this year.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

So is the sell off cancelled now? What a crazy year in the Western Conference

Still hopefully sell, but winning is nice in the meantime for more entertaining games and to hopefully establish the value of our top tradable assets.

 

[EvenSteven]

Often with coaching changes, there’s always a surge in winning percentage for the very short time. After that, the winning percentage tends to level out to where it should be. This may go back to where we were before the coaching change or little better. I don’t expect us to all of a sudden become a true contender this year.

Therefore, in my opinion, a sell off is still in order.

 

[bobber]

Kenny Rogers old song You got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them comes to mind with the Rangers. The Ranger cupboard is thin. If an opposing franchise has a ton of assets and is hot going into the deadline it would be prudent of the Rangers to get younger and build on the future by aquiring picks and young players if possible. It's not worth cleaning out your assets for a round or two of play off hockey and set the team back for years. Just an opinion.