Kitchener Rangers 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 2)

[Kenny Chu]

I wouldn’t expect Jay has any worries, at least to this point, and MM likely has about the same job security as Dale Hunter … be it here or somewhere else tomorrow.

We seemed fairly well prepared to start the season going 4-0-2 or similar and appeared in early national rankings. It’s a down year so falling off that initial pace &/or last year's high level achievement and going through prolonged losing streaks and such is to be expected.



I don’t see the lineup as being a forgone conclusion in August either Kenny; seems we have 6 rookies on the full roster including a 14th round pick and a FA plus we’ve added a Euro and 2 OAs since the season started. We had a surprise, compelling goalie option in Brock Baier at camp and a whack (18?) of FAs and hopeful prospects invited that ... right or wrong ... didn’t make the cut.



Stevie Bienkowski ...

Well if the fans are not happy with the direction of the team, I think Jay does have to worry. Its a community based team. Dale owns the Knights, whose going to fire him???
Second. You only had a Blue and White team in training camp, made up of your existing roster, your draft choices and a couple of invites. London will make six training camp teams with a handful of free agents and invites. And on top of that they generally carry two teams into exhibition play , one of the teams is a prospects team for kids who performed well in camp to show their stuff in exhibition play. Its a lot more complete than Kitchener. Third I have no idea why Baier was let go when he was, way to early, he out played Richardson at camp, why would you have not given him more of a chance? Quite frankly I saw better D than Xhekaj, York and Macpherson and I thought Desmond, whom you cut, is the type of player the fans on here are saying we need. So go figure.

 

[GeoBlue]

I have no idea why Baier was let go when he was, way to early, he out played Richardson at camp, why would you have not given him more of a chance?

I think there was a compensation factor here that had to be considered, as I recall, but I do not remember the details.

 

[EvenSteven]

I think there was a compensation factor here that had to be considered, as I recall, but I do not remember the details.

From what I understand, Baier was loaned here for camp by the Spits. He was still Spits property. It gave him a chance to get training camp minutes that he wouldn't have seen in Windsor. This was for the benefit of the player to give him a shot at getting picked up by another team in the league since he wasn't in Windsor's plans.

The Rangers, if interested in him, would have received first right of refusal in acquiring him since they did Windsor a favour and gave the player the opportunity.

I think I read somewhere that MM chose to go with the Richardson/Pfiel tandem as opposed to having Baier replace one of the two citing the compensation that Windsor wanted for Baier's rights was more than he wanted to pay. I don't believe it was ever revealed what that compensation was.

From all accounts, Baier was hands down the best goalie in Rangers camp start to finish and Richardson the worst. The reaction from Ranger fans that saw training camp ranged anywhere between surprised to shocked that we didn't keep Baier as the starter over Richardson. Both these guys are the same age.

According to hockeydb.com, Brock Baier is having a decent season in the BCHL with the West Kelowna Warriors:

10-3 record.
363 average
.905 save %

That's on a team that has a 19-14-0-1 record. So it look like he's having a good year out there.

 

[EvenSteven]

After watching Owen Sound put the screws to London tonight, maybe DD would be interested in Meireles/McHugh in yet another possible Lon/OS series. Interesting to see what he does with his star players this year.
Guelph has Kirwin/Ralph as their speedy checkers, who can also contribute offensively like M/M. Woolley has a late bd so won’t be drafted until 2020, the owners are probably already keeping an eye on that NHL draft money. Bertuzzi is interesting. At this rate he might be passed over in June, such a high pick, they will probably hope for the best. Poiriers OA spot should be replaced by Saigeon asap. A player George drafted in Belleville, would be reunited with Hanley, would push Hillis down, run the number one line and be another weapon for Merkley to use on their pp. They will either get caught sleeping on him or out bid by Ottawa/Niagara. If the Yantsis/Hugg deal doesn’t happen with Petes, it would make some sense with the Storm. Guelphs OA’s next year could be Popovich, Ralph and Yantsis. Hugg would help them in the playoffs this year more than Torpochenko. The Rangers and Blues have had a relationship for quite a few years.

Meant to get to this post earlier. Very informative. Wasn't thinking of Kirwan/Ralph. Good point.

As far as Woolley's draft $$ goes, trades have been made before in this league where a team still gets the draft money for a player after the player's been traded away. Certainly that would be worked out.

I don't really care where our vets go as long as they go for fair compensation. Yantsis/Hugg to Guelph would be fine with me too. Both are racking up the points and would certainly help your team as two thirds of a good second line behind the Radcliffe line.

Yantsis is on pace for 40+ goals and Hugg has been at or near the top of the Rangers scoring all year. He's having a hell of a year offensively and in his own end. Based on his season, it's no surprise he's been named to the preliminary WJC roster for the Sweden.

In my firesale, I had two young 01's coming over from Peterboro along with two 2nds and two 3rds - one of each conditional on Yantsis playing an OA season.

With that in mind, I'd be looking for comparable compensation.

How about:

To Guelph:
Yantsis.
Hugg.
4th in 20

To Kitchener:
Bertuzzi.
Woolley.
Torpochenko.
2nd in 19 (Sag)
3rd in 21
*2nd in 22 (NB)
*3rd in 22

Conditions are if Yantsis plays an OA season. I already covered draft money for Woolley above.

We get comparable compensation for Yantsis and Hugg as in the Petes trade. The 4th covers Torpochenko. Even though you'd be basically dumping him to make room for Hugg, his half season in Kitchener would hold some value. A second and 3rd for a Yantsis OA season would be a steal. We'd be taking somewhat of a gamble that Bertuzzi's game turns around.

You already have a decent top four D in Merkley, Samarukov, Hanley and Lalonde. Perhaps you just pick up a decent bottom pairing veteran D on the cheap to replace Woolley's minutes (example: last year Mitchell Byrne went to Kingston from Erie for a 6th and 13th) and go after Saigeon as you suggested.

Byrne was a solid D with a ton of playoff experience in Erie.

⁃ Nick King in North Bay.
⁃ Jakob Brahaney on Kingston
⁃ Josh Wainman in Hamilton.
⁃ Nick Grima in Sarnia.

These are the type of guys that may be available from teams that'll sell. They aren't stars, but they are veterans who could help a contender play bottom pairing minutes.

 

[bobber]

Even if you read a couple of recent posts on the Storm thread one says Bertuzzi has been invisible latley. Someone also pointed out Torpochenko is big but has the worse plus minus on the team and is not that good. Poster put up a list of players showing him at minus 13. Not sure I would go there. These post are from fans watching these players. I actually have family members with season tickets in Guelph so I hear the complaints. Just saying.

 

[SYWTom]

Second. You only had a Blue and White team in training camp, made up of your existing roster, your draft choices and a couple of invites. London will make six training camp teams with a handful of free agents and invites.

This is simply not true, there was 3 teams in Ranger camp. I personally attended these events.

Desmond looked far too slow and ineffective.
And most of the players who possibly could have made the cut were older then guys playing in our bottom 6.


My biggest gripe with this year is Chase Campbell playing in the top 6. Valade should be playing that role. He skates must better then Campbell, and actually has room to develop where as Campbell is what he is at this point.

 

[EvenSteven]

Even if you read a couple of recent posts on the Storm thread one says Bertuzzi has been invisible latley. Someone also pointed out Torpochenko is big but has the worse plus minus on the team and is not that good. Poster put up a list of players showing him at minus 13. Not sure I would go there. These post are from fans watching these players. I actually have family members with season tickets in Guelph so I hear the complaints. Just saying.

We'd take their import only because they have to make room for Hugg. He'd be just a throw in. Same deal as when we took Sudbury's import back when we sent them Faksa.

I mentioned Bertuzzi was a bit of a gamble for us. But if he lives up to his draft position it could be a big win for us.

 

[bobber]

This is simply not true, there was 3 teams in Ranger camp. I personally attended these events.

Desmond looked far too slow and ineffective.
And most of the players who possibly could have made the cut were older then guys playing in our bottom 6.


My biggest gripe with this year is Chase Campbell playing in the top 6. Valade should be playing that role. He skates must better then Campbell, and actually has room to develop where as Campbell is what he is at this point.

Rangers do a great job with their camps. The rookie camp includes a high tech experience for draftees and any invited players. They run computerize coloured lights for lack of a better term where it measures speed and other aspects of each players performance. There are only so many spots open in a given year and the management has to decide who takes them. Usually the first and second rounder are there. Doesn't usually leave much room for changes to the roster. On a side note I think Campbell is a fairly fast skater. Just has no size and therefore became expendable by the Attack as an OA. Third line player at best on a decent team IMO. I agree SYWTom that our number one pick should always get priority over these older players in a rebuild year.

 

[Kenny Chu]

This is simply not true, there was 3 teams in Ranger camp. I personally attended these events.

Desmond looked far too slow and ineffective.
And most of the players who possibly could have made the cut were older then guys playing in our bottom 6.


My biggest gripe with this year is Chase Campbell playing in the top 6. Valade should be playing that role. He skates must better then Campbell, and actually has room to develop where as Campbell is what he is at this point.

August 21, 2018 Kitchner Rangers announce training camp rosters, TWO TEAMS, BLUE AND WHITE, OMG!!

 

[OHLFan90]

From what I understand, Baier was loaned here for camp by the Spits. He was still Spits property. It gave him a chance to get training camp minutes that he wouldn't have seen in Windsor. This was for the benefit of the player to give him a shot at getting picked up by another team in the league since he wasn't in Windsor's plans.

The Rangers, if interested in him, would have received first right of refusal in acquiring him since they did Windsor a favour and gave the player the opportunity.

I think I read somewhere that MM chose to go with the Richardson/Pfiel tandem as opposed to having Baier replace one of the two citing the compensation that Windsor wanted for Baier's rights was more than he wanted to pay. I don't believe it was ever revealed what that compensation was.

From all accounts, Baier was hands down the best goalie in Rangers camp start to finish and Richardson the worst. The reaction from Ranger fans that saw training camp ranged anywhere between surprised to shocked that we didn't keep Baier as the starter over Richardson. Both these guys are the same age.

According to hockeydb.com, Brock Baier is having a decent season in the BCHL with the West Kelowna Warriors:

10-3 record.
363 average
.905 save %

That's on a team that has a 19-14-0-1 record. So it look like he's having a good year out there.

Honestly I believe that Baier wasn't brought in because the organization needed to save face


Never looks good on a scouting staff if a 19 year old camp invitee who is on loan from another team takes the starting gig.


Couldn't have been a cost thing. They essentially let him walk to BC for nothing. And if the cost wasnt anything higher then a 6th or 7th round pick then shame on MM for not paying it. Baier still has this year and next. Would have paid for itself.

 

[K2]

Well if the fans are not happy with the direction of the team, I think Jay does have to worry. Its a community based team. Dale owns the Knights, whose going to fire him???

Jay & Co got new contracts in May &, while I don't recall that the duration was announced, 2-3 years is typical. Rangers Hockey Ops being a highly insulated old boy thing with a strong historical disconnect from shareholder (STH)/fan opinion over the decades that I've observed ... Jay would have to go insubordinate/adopt stark 'philosophical differences' to be fired mid-season; he probably just wouldn't get renewed whenever or, more likely, he would move on early. Suck as play does at times, the 2018-19 'performance goal' is only to make the playoffs and we quite possibly will manage that. MM is a 'golden boy' & could make an upward step anytime or stay as long as he wants.

I suppose Basil & Mark could relieve Dale as HC but can't see that happening outside of failing health, etc.

Second. You only had a Blue and White team in training camp, made up of your existing roster, your draft choices and a couple of invites. London will make six training camp teams ... Its a lot more complete than Kitchener.

I thought the Knights did four teams at camp ... did they add more colours to the logo or are the other two teams based in Flint? While that obviously works for them (except last year) I think we're already flush with fringe prospects at camp to add double + the candidates.

Third I have no idea why Baier was let go when he was, way to early, he out played Richardson at camp, why would you have not given him more of a chance?

You would think WR might have taken a late pick vs nothing when he had 5+ goalies in the cards ahead of Baier before BB went West & I don't know that he had to be waived through the O to play BCHL hockey? Anyways, he was the best G at our camp and we either choose not to ante up or simply to keep the guys we knew (ugh).

Quite frankly I saw better D than Xhekaj, York and Macpherson and I thought Desmond, whom you cut, is the type of player the fans on here are saying we need. So go figure.

I liked Desmond too but thought Xhekaj was at least equivalent and that he improved more through camp. I guess Kobe could still get signed as a Ranger draftee (U18?) if he's having a strong season and we shed/lose a roster D.

 

[WolvesFanSudbury]

If Yantsis moves what would be your guys expectations of a return

 

[bobber]

Jay & Co got new contracts in May &, while I don't recall that the duration was announced, 2-3 years is typical. Rangers Hockey Ops being a highly insulated old boy thing with a strong historical disconnect from shareholder (STH)/fan opinion over the decades that I've observed ... Jay would have to go insubordinate/adopt stark 'philosophical differences' to be fired mid-season; he probably just wouldn't get renewed whenever or, more likely, he would move on early. Suck as play does at times, the 2018-19 'performance goal' is only to make the playoffs and we quite possibly will manage that. MM is a 'golden boy' & could make an upward step anytime or stay as long as he wants.

I suppose Basil & Mark could relieve Dale as HC but can't see that happening outside of failing health, etc.



I thought the Knights did four teams at camp ... did they add more colours to the logo or are the other two teams based in Flint? While that obviously works for them (except last year) I think we're already flush with fringe prospects at camp to add double + the candidates.



You would think WR might have taken a late pick vs nothing when he had 5+ goalies in the cards ahead of Baier before BB went West & I don't know that he had to be waived through the O to play BCHL hockey? Anyways, he was the best G at our camp and we either choose not to ante up or simply to keep the guys we knew (ugh).



I liked Desmond too but thought Xhekaj was at least equivalent and that he improved more through camp. I guess Kobe could still get signed as a Ranger draftee (U18?) if he's having a strong season and we shed/lose a roster D.

Many many moons ago the Rangers would have 60 players or so in camp. I remember being at a camp in the old Lions arena and seeing eight or ten kids out in the lobby told they were being cut. They all looked shocked. I think the Rangers cut back because its more fair than giving kids false hopes that they may play in the OHL. We as long time fans have seen our bottom line guys struggle to put up points or have a hard time adjusting to the speed and size of OHL players. Some kids look like they might set the world on fire in camp but when they get to exhibition with seasoned vets they just can't cut it.

 

[K2]

How about:

To Guelph:
Yantsis.
Hugg.
4th in 20

To Kitchener:
Bertuzzi.
Woolley.
Torpochenko.
2nd in 19 (Sag)
3rd in 21
*2nd in 22 (NB)
*3rd in 22

Fair enough though I wonder if we want two additional D at this point and Bertuzzi's current trajectory is possibly on the verge of 'epic bust'. Somehow, I'd bet George is probably too stingey to offer up quite that much ... "because it's Kitchener"

 

[three dog night]

Oshawa tonight go Rangers.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I thought Desmond, whom you cut, is the type of player the fans on here are saying we need. So go figure.

I remember you complaining that we should have cut Yantsis and kept Desmond.

 

[EvenSteven]

Fair enough though I wonder if we want two additional D at this point and Bertuzzi's current trajectory is possibly on the verge of 'epic bust'. Somehow, I'd bet George is probably too stingey to offer up quite that much ... "because it's Kitchener"

The only D coming over in this "deal" is Woolley. As far as Bertuzzi goes, I doubt he'd be as bad as a Mitchell Dempsey type 1st round epic bust. He could turn into a late bloomer and crank it up with a change of scenery or wind up being at worst, a five year OHLer who could top out as a fixture on the second line.

An OHL career comparable to, say, a Nick McHugh. That may be considered an epic bust as a second overall pick, but not as a solid OHLer.

Brent Pederson, who some on here including me called a first round bust, was a serviceable OHLer who brought very good return at the trade deadline in his 19 year old year.

 

[EvenSteven]

If Yantsis moves what would be your guys expectations of a return

Personally I would like an 01 player back in return plus a couple picks plus a couple conditional picks because Yantsis will likely play an OA season.

The quality of picks coming our way would be determined by the quality of the 01 player coming our way.

 

[EvenSteven]

Still no mention on the OHL website of a suspension to Riley Damiani.

 

[Kenny Chu]

I remember you complaining that we should have cut Yantsis and kept Desmond.

Yes. At one point Yantsis was going to go to London but they didn't want him because of his skating. Guys score in streaks which he has done. Lets see where he goes the rest of the season. I also said Joey was in for a down year because his numbers were artificially inflated last year due to playing with Mescarian. Had I been in charge I would have traded Joey at the beginning of the year when his value was at its maximum, now they will get less. I thought we could have initiated a few older picks like Desmond and been better off than what we have now, starting fresh face rookies who are new to junior hockey with little or no points . My God send them to JrA and B and let them develop.

 

[EvenSteven]

I also said Joey was in for a down year because his numbers were artificially inflated last year due to playing with Mescarian. Had I been in charge I would have traded Joey at the beginning of the year when his value was at its maximum, now they will get less. .

Very good point.

 

[moose311]

Still no mention on the OHL website of a suspension to Riley Damiani.

Josh Brown just tweeted that he's getting the expected 5 game suspension.

 

[bobber]

Damiani five game suspension

 

[K2]

The only D coming over in this "deal" is Woolley.

Sorry ... excess vs additional D I suppose with Woolley sitting beside JackEye eating popcorn most nights unless JoeyG has a change of heart (etc).

As far as Bertuzzi goes, I doubt he'd be as bad as a Mitchell Dempsey type 1st round epic bust

Big name kid picked 2nd overall sets a tough expectation to meet and while there is plenty of time, his upside has yet to really make any appearance ... heck, they could have drafted Grayson Ladd instead and been a few scoring points ahead this season. Dempsey ... fooled most everyone briefly & I suppose when you think about all the 1st rounders we had at times during the 'Paxton Leroux' season:
Marcantuoni, Pedersen, Iafrate, Robinson, Davies, Teskey, Teichmann & Dempsey (?) there were a few punching at around the same level as Bertuzzi. Dempsey did manage to score as many career OHL goals as Paxton Leroux but only half as many as notorious 1st round bust Devereaux Heshmatpour

 

[Generalsupdates]

Oshawa tonight go Rangers.

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