Confirmed with Link: Kinkaid to CLB for 5th

Triumph

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Oct 2, 2007
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You guys can say we have good team defense with a straight face. That is utterly hilarious.

Please tell me where I said the Devils have a good team defense. They don't. My point is that if your belief in defenses 'ruining' goalies were correct, we wouldn't see good goalies on bad teams, but in fact we do all the time.

'Bad' defenses can play deterministically and allow goalies to do their job. Really bad defenses play non-deterministically and make goalies guess.

Even the best of goalies cannot steal game after game behind bad defenses. They eventually get worn down and lose confidence unless they are elite.

No one is confusing KK with an elite goalie.

If any of you honestly believe you can plug MacBlack or any mid-tier goalie onto this team and get them to win - you're just insane.

That is why, time after time - we go through these two game periods where these guys are heros and look like they are amazing (because they have to be) and then we go back to them being complete scrubs and we get posts from Bleed about how much he hates them and how much they suck.

The team is especially terrible now so I don't think MacBlack turns this into a winning team, but he certainly has played far better than Kinkaid this season in his limited time for the Devils.
 
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billingtons ghost

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If this was at all true - if bad defenses 'ruined' goalies permanently - we wouldn't see great goalies behind bad defenses. But we have and we do. To you no goalie ever plays poorly, it's only defense. That's just not what's going on.

No one said permanently. Kinkaid could end up a solid backup goaltender (what he's suited for). Cory, on a good team, could potentially be a solid backup as well.

Within an 82 game season - damn straight you can ruin a goaltender - and with a young kid? You bet.
 

NjDevsRR

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Playing two games for Columbus isn’t going to resurrect his career. This is closer to a death nail then anything else.
And if stands on his head those games and their other goalies faulter he will have a chance at more games.
 

billingtons ghost

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Nov 29, 2010
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The team is especially terrible now so I don't think MacBlack turns this into a winning team, but he certainly has played far better than Kinkaid this season in his limited time for the Devils.

Yeah, and no. I can pick sample sets that break the above statement. I have no problem with MacBlack's game - but look at this:
He came in for the end of the shelling against Toronto.
His first few starts, fully turning himself on his head, he faced 40 against Boston, 38 against CBJ.
Then he faced dregs and did fairly well.
He faced a playoff team in Dallas and got shelled. He got eaten up by Chicago and didn't look very good against the Isles or Anaheim.

It's a 13 game sample set versus 41 games of horror.

I fear for the kid.
 

Bleedred

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Not true. Your 'regression' is just the stupidity in front of him getting into his head.

Dude, of all people - I thought YOU actually played a little goal and knew how much your game changes when you have even a single defenseman on your team who can't do his job and gets beaten and allows that pass across the slot.

I can't defend the weak shots that get past Kinkaid - he's been awful at times - but some people here seem to think he got to that point in a vacuum - like he wakes up one day and leads us to the playoffs and the next day he's a scrub.

Like anything, playing goal is a learning process - and just like batters or pitchers in baseball or running backs or quarterbacks in football -

Watching your Dman do something stupid is just the same as locking up when you see a curveball because your mechanics are off or not throwing your slider because it has been getting wracked. It's just like not hitting the hole hard because you've met a linebacker there 5 times in a row, or getting happy feet even when there's no pressure because you've been getting pounded into the turf.

These guys are human and all it takes is 3 or 4 games of REALLY bad defense to break their confidence and spirit.

This is somehow LOST on some people DESPITE THE FACT OUR OTHER GOALIE JUST WENT 400 something days without winning a game. Brilliant.
He led us to the playoffs last year, then became a scrub this year because he wasn’t really as good as his hot streak last year. Just like Scott Clemmensen wasn’t as good that year Marty was injured.

The guy probably isn’t as bad as he’s been this year either. If he was used in his proper role, which is a backup , odds are he would have played fine.

And you know how I feel about that other goalie that went 400+ days without a win. He’s the reasons Kinkaid had to be more than a backup this year. That’s definitely not lost on me.
 

Balance

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I am thankful for Kinkaid and last year.

I don't know what he looks like on the long term with a good team. But he didn't have a good defense in front of him, he never got any help. But is he more than a backup? Time will tell. I don't think he is, but his stretch of play towards the playoffs last year was phenomenal.
 

StvBroDan

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Thanks Keith for being a long time Devil, a great run last year and dealing with a difficult season this year. Some think you had to be perfect while Cory was in a slump. Everybody knows that wouldn't happen with the team put before you on many nights.
 
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Bleedred

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But is he more than a backup? Time will tell. I don't think he is, but his stretch of play towards the playoffs last year was phenomenal.
Don't think so. This year probably told that. He can be a starter short term if the starter is injured or over a few month stretch, but that's probably about it. He's 30 this July. Which is why I chuckled at the comment that he'd be just as good as Holtby, Even though it doesn't seem that way, he's actually 2.5 months older than Holtby is.
 

mtnet

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Not that we wouldn't just take anything we can get anyway but the return on this trade still cracks me up like

which-year-is-it-meme-300x257.jpg
 
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Nubmer6

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Figured I'd post this here (paywall)
Trade deadline frenzy: Behind the scenes with an NHL agent...

Reason being is that the first chunk is about the KK trade. It seems Kieth found out BEFORE his agent, and it was at 7:14 AM Central time. Apparently, the first reactions of most trades are "Who did I get traded for?", then "How do I fit in to the new team?".

At first, guys are disappointed that they’re leaving their team, then they’re excited because it’s a new opportunity. Then Keith is looking at the roster going, “All right, I’m going to be one of three goalies.” So he’s asking, “Do you think this is a good move? Do you think I’m going to play?” Now he’s in deep thought because he’s going to drive from New Jersey to Columbus, so he’s starting to think about the situation.

All in all, quite a fascinating article.
 

Call Me Al

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this part from the other article is a little concerning - why can't our guy spot this?

"He also met goaltending coach Manny Legace, who showed him some “bad habits” during a video session — things that partly contributed to Kinkaid’s 3.36 goals-against average and .891 save percentage this season.

“When I saw it on video, I was a little shocked,” he said. “We’ve already adjusted and fixed it, so it’s just hammering at it now.”
 
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Nubmer6

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this part from the other article is a little concerning - why can't our guy spot this?

"He also met goaltending coach Manny Legace, who showed him some “bad habits” during a video session — things that partly contributed to Kinkaid’s 3.36 goals-against average and .891 save percentage this season.

“When I saw it on video, I was a little shocked,” he said. “We’ve already adjusted and fixed it, so it’s just hammering at it now.”
I've REALLY not been a fan of Rollie. I know he's highly regarded, but the things I'm hearing is just... I dunno. If he's good for Cory, fine, but get a different coach for MacBlack and the others.
 
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Call Me Al

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my understanding is that our guys are pretty good with preparation and video but seems odd that they wouldn't pick up on bad habits that are "shocking" to kk
 

Devils731

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this part from the other article is a little concerning - why can't our guy spot this?

"He also met goaltending coach Manny Legace, who showed him some “bad habits” during a video session — things that partly contributed to Kinkaid’s 3.36 goals-against average and .891 save percentage this season.

“When I saw it on video, I was a little shocked,” he said. “We’ve already adjusted and fixed it, so it’s just hammering at it now.”

I’m going to guess they disagree on what is “correct”.

For me, I’m a fairly high level bowler and what I consider good form is different from what others think is good form. An example would be dropping your shoulder in your backswing; I would recommend it for flexibility and another coach would be horrified that the bowler wasn’t keeping their shoulder square.
 

NJDevils17

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Not to throw anyone under the bus but a guy who struggled with a team blaming a goalie coach for not showing him ths issues in his game is kind of unsurprising.

Not that Kinkaid was outright about it but that’s the type of shit where he is surreptitiously blaming the coach.
 
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Call Me Al

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he didn't blame the goalie coach, he didn't say anything about it here he just talked about settling in with columbus. and it was for a local columbus newspaper i doubt there was any intent to throw anyone under the bus
 

My3Sons

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Every position guru has their own areas of focus. Look at all the hocus pocus with golf swing coaches. I'm guessing this was some small thing on a few goals that their goalie coach didn't like. Doesn't necessarily mean the NJ coach didn't see it, but may have thought it of lesser importance than something else. Melanson had a decent year or two in the NHL but wasn't really anything special over the long haul. It wouldn't surprise me if the things he emphasizes were things he struggled with as a player that may or may not be things that KK struggled with.

As an aside, I've heard Chico make comments on the radio broadcast that he could tell whether KK was on his game by where he was holding his glove. Interesting and technical, but just one small piece in a big puzzle.
 

Bleedred

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I bet he was pointing out how he was off his angle a lot. That was a huge problem towards the end this year. Especially in that LA game. That game was especially annoying. They didn’t look like bad goals because they were deflections, but most goalies are gonna stop a slight deflection off a player’s hand from about 30 feet away.
 

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