Signing(s): Kings offer sheet Zach LaVine (4 years, $78 million) - Bulls match

[cgf]

Ok, I'll play along.

Name all the players who averaged 16.7 points a game averaging 27 minutes or less a game.

It's plenty, correct?

You clearly weren't a basketball fan during the Isiah era...this is literally how he GM'd and it made following the NBA so painful that diehard knicks fans had to take a season or two off from the team, for the first time in decades, until his ass was shitcanned.

The way the sport functions makes "scoring" massively easier in the NBA than NHL, shotclock, backcourt violations, no goaltending, the basic mechanics of the game, etc. So "somebody has to score" is much more applicable in this sport, especially when you ignore efficiency.

You made a horrible analogy by bringing up the best scorer (and player) in the NHL not making the playoffs when we were talking about a guy who'd have to score nearly twice as much to enter that conversation in the NBA. This is a player on a shitty team putting up 45+ points in the NHL with 2nd line minutes & 1st unit PP opportunities. Not the f***ing Art Ross winner.

 

[Voight]

Fox, Bagley, Cauley-Stein, Harry Giles, Frank Mason jr, getting Hield and Bogdan in trades.

Honestly have no clue what you're talking about wrt drafting. The Kings have done well the past few years.

That trade with Philly was bad, though.

Bismac, T-Rob, Stauskas, Georgios Papagiannis etc.

Giles has played 0 NBA games so lets not count him as good pick yet no?

 

[cgf]

Giles does look promising though, so their drafting does seem to be getting better...even if they still can't help themselves on the trade & FA front...

...and passing on Doncic is still unforgivable unless he told them that he'd never play in Sacramento...in which case they should've been the ones to trade down with Dallas...but kings gunna king, I guess.

 

[dahrougem2]

Ok, I'll play along.

Name all the players who averaged 16.7 points a game averaging 27 minutes or less a game.

It's plenty, correct?

J.J. Reddick has averaged 16 per game averaging 28 minutes in 15-16. Jeff Teague that same season averaged 15 in 28 minutes. Enes Kanter averaged 15 in 28 minutes in 14-15. Dion Waiters averaged 16 in 29 minutes in 13-14. Nate Robinson averaged 17 in 29 minutes in 08-09. Charlie Villanueva averaged 16 in 26 minutes that same season.

Like, do you honestly think by asking me to go searching for these players that it's going to help your cause? It's not like LaVine is putting up crazy assist/rebound numbers, either.

This is the group of players you've asked for.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

J.J. Reddick has averaged 16 per game averaging 28 minutes in 15-16. Jeff Teague that same season averaged 15 in 28 minutes. Enes Kanter averaged 15 in 28 minutes in 14-15. Dion Waiters averaged 16 in 29 minutes in 13-14. Nate Robinson averaged 17 in 29 minutes in 08-09. Charlie Villanueva averaged 16 in 26 minutes that same season.

Like, do you honestly think by asking me to go searching for these players that it's going to help your cause? It's not like LaVine is putting up crazy assist/rebound numbers, either.

This is the group of players you've asked for.

Now your struggling.

Last year, how many players averaged 16.7 points in 27 minutes or less?

The answer? Two. You stated there were many, and years before are irrelevant.

Even better, of those two players, they played a grand total of 8 games combined.

Kevin Love played 50 plus games with a 28 minute average, but that's still over 27 minutes if my math is correct. On top of him being alot older then 23.

Just take the L on this one. You earned it.

And no, that's not the list I asked for. I asked for 16.7 in 27 minutes. That's the list you tried to pass off.

 

[cgf]

Oh Nate. I remember how convinced Isiah was that that smurf, Starbury, Crawford, Zach, & Fatboy Eddy were going to turn us into what GSW is now.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

I'm just happy they didn't take Doncic. Don't want that kid getting ruined lol.

Is Lauri Markkanen getting ruined by Chicago Bulls?

 

[cgf]

Now your struggling.

Last year, how many players averaged 16.7 points in 27 minutes or less?

The answer? Two. You stated there were many, and years before are irrelevant.

Even better, of those two players, they played a grand total of 8 games combined.

Kevin Love played 50 plus games with a 28 minute average, but that's still over 27 minutes if my math is correct. On top of him being alot older then 23.

Just take the L on this one. You earned it.

And no, that's not the list I asked for. I asked for 16.7 in 27 minutes. That's the list you tried to pass off.

So you are new to basketball, that's cool. It's a really fun sport, you've just gotta learn that it's important to look at efficiency & usage rather than just raw points per 36 stats...especially with bad teams...to avoid the fake hustle of empty #s.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Why you gotta be like that? Couldn't we all just get along & laugh at the Kings for continuing to try to do stupid "knick things" instead?


Not for a lack of trying

But I guess that fact is more convenient to overlook for someone trying to defend them ;-)

They haven't been pursuing much in free agency. They stood pat while other teams were throwing money around. It was known before free agency that they were interested in Lavine and they made a calculated move to go after him. Thankfully the Bulls matched. If you have any other "facts" about them trying to woo fa's, I'd love to see it. Until then, it's just more old, played out "kangz gonna kang" nonsense.

Kings finally went full rebuild after they traded Cousins, and it was the best thing they could do. They finally have a direction and look like they'll be good sooner than later. Bagley was ranked higher than Doncic by multiple people (not a majority, obv) and people want to act like they reached. I can't wait until the move works and all the shit talkers get real quiet.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

So you are new to basketball, that's cool. It's a really fun sport, you've just gotta learn that it's important to look at efficiency & usage rather than just raw points per 36 stats...especially with bad teams...to avoid the fake hustle of empty #s.

So.....

Connor McDavids numbers are "empty #s" since, you know, he played on a bad team?

Mike Trouts?

See, you poor things can't get your way out of this.

 

[cgf]

So.....

Connor McDavids numbers are "empty #s" since, you know, he played on a bad team?

Mike Trouts?

See, you poor things can't get your way out of this.

...did you get dropped on your head as a child?

If not, try actually reading this post:

The way the sport functions makes "scoring" massively easier in the NBA than NHL, shotclock, backcourt violations, no goaltending, the basic mechanics of the game, etc. So "somebody has to score" is much more applicable in this sport, especially when you ignore efficiency.

You made a horrible analogy by bringing up the best scorer (and player) in the NHL not making the playoffs when we were talking about a guy who'd have to score nearly twice as much to enter that conversation in the NBA. This is a player on a ****ty team putting up 45+ points in the NHL with 2nd line minutes & 1st unit PP opportunities. Not the ****ing Art Ross winner.

 

[Morozov]

There's obviously someone I've got on ignore posting in here because all I see is cgf roasting someone repeatedly with no replies lol.

 

[cgf]

They haven't been pursuing much in free agency. They stood pat while other teams were throwing money around. It was known before free agency that they were interested in Lavine and they made a calculated move to go after him. Thankfully the Bulls matched. If you have any other "facts" about them trying to woo fa's, I'd love to see it. Until then, it's just more old, played out "kangz gonna kang" nonsense.

Kings finally went full rebuild after they traded Cousins, and it was the best thing they could do. They finally have a direction and look like they'll be good sooner than later. Bagley was ranked higher than Doncic by multiple people (not a majority, obv) and people want to act like they reached. I can't wait until the move works and all the **** talkers get real quiet.

If the Kings keep themselves from throwing a dumb contract at Smart, and don't make any dumb trades, I'll tip my cap to them at the end of the offseason. But so far they threw a horrible offer at Lavine & are rumored to be preparing a terrible contract to offer Smart, so it's looking like they're trying really hard to be "the same old kings".

If it makes you feel better I'm still somewhat shocked that the knicks only moves have been to sign a kid like Hezonja on a cheap 1 year deal, and getting a prospect on a two-way deal like Trier. I'm excited, but I've seen this song & dance before when Dolan pushed Walsh aside to f*** the team up himself. So I'm waiting for that other foot to drop when somebody tells Dolan that his kids can get him a new shiny-shiny NOW!

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

...did you get dropped on your head as a child?

If not, try actually reading this post:

You really seem to have a hard time understanding that bad is bad.

Ok, McDavids points mean more while playing on a bad team then LaVine, who averaged 16.7 points in 27.3 minutes a game who also played on a bad team?

Is this what your trying to say?

Because, no offense, as much as no team took the Bulls seriously in the NBA, nobody takes the Oilers seriously in the NHL.

Actually, what we're McDavids point totals after they were eliminated and teams just didn't care about playing them? It seems we have some bias on these forums where player one, who plays on a garbage team nobody look seriously gets a pass, but player two on a similarly garbage team gets blamed for actually signing a contract that he was offered on the open market.

I have to link this to my Twitter. This is comedic gold.

Only on these forums, can you say,"LaVine sucks, but sucks more then Connor McDavid because both played on bad teams that put both teams in the lottery, but McDavid gets a pass because he lead the league in scoring but that Evil LaVine, who led his team in scoring is bad even tho both lead their respective teams to the friggin basement

I hope this forum lasts forever....I really do

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Bismac, T-Rob, Stauskas, Georgios Papagiannis etc.

Giles has played 0 NBA games so lets not count him as good pick yet no?

Biyombo was immediately traded, and 3 of those 4 picks were made by gm's other than Divac.

Giles hasn't played a game but had top-5 potential and was a steal where the Kings got him. It was a savvy pick for a team looking ahead for the fiture.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

If the Kings keep themselves from throwing a dumb contract at Smart, and don't make any dumb trades, I'll tip my cap to them at the end of the offseason. But so far they threw a horrible offer at Lavine & are rumored to be preparing a terrible contract to offer Smart, so it's looking like they're trying really hard to be "the same old kings".

If it makes you feel better I'm still somewhat shocked that the knicks only moves have been to sign a kid like Hezonja on a cheap 1 year deal, and getting a prospect on a two-way deal like Trier. I'm excited, but I've seen this song & dance before when Dolan pushed Walsh aside to **** the team up himself. So I'm waiting for that other foot to drop when somebody tells Dolan that his kids can get him a new shiny-shiny NOW!

Hezonja is a guy the Kings were rumored to be looking at lol.

Vivek has seemed to cool off the gimmicks and is letting Divac and co handle the basketball decisions. Overall I believe Divac is getting better, but his downfall is he seems to get enamored with certain players. He loved Hield before the draft and made a deal without telling other teams that Cousins was on the block. It ended up being an okay deal for the Kings (so far), but bad asset management overall.

He let it be known that he liked Lavine, which likely gave him a bit of leverage in the deal. He can't get emotionally attached to these players, or else he won't be doing this for very long.

 

[cgf]

Hezonja is a guy the Kings were rumored to be looking at lol.

Vivek has seemed to cool off the gimmicks and is letting Divac and co handle the basketball decisions. Overall I believe Divac is getting better, but his downfall is he seems to get enamored with certain players. He loved Hield before the draft and made a deal without telling other teams that Cousins was on the block. It ended up being an okay deal for the Kings (so far), but bad asset management overall.

He let it be known that he liked Lavine, which likely gave him a bit of leverage in the deal. He can't get emotionally attached to these players, or else he won't be doing this for very long.

Hezonja is a bum, but what's important about his signing for the Knicks was that it was just for 1 year, not the multiple years you were offering him. That's what's different from what the Knicks usually do and what the Kings are still trying to do.

 

[cgf]

You really seem to have a hard time understanding that bad is bad.

Ok, McDavids points mean more while playing on a bad team then LaVine, who averaged 16.7 points in 27.3 minutes a game who also played on a bad team?

Is this what your trying to say?

Because, no offense, as much as no team took the Bulls seriously in the NBA, nobody takes the Oilers seriously in the NHL.

Actually, what we're McDavids point totals after they were eliminated and teams just didn't care about playing them? It seems we have some bias on these forums where player one, who plays on a garbage team nobody look seriously gets a pass, but player two on a similarly garbage team gets blamed for actually signing a contract that he was offered on the open market.

I have to link this to my Twitter. This is comedic gold.

Only on these forums, can you say,"LaVine sucks, but sucks more then Connor McDavid because both played on bad teams that put both teams in the lottery, but McDavid gets a pass because he lead the league in scoring but that Evil LaVine, who led his team in scoring is bad even tho both lead their respective teams to the friggin basement

I hope this forum lasts forever....I really do

Nope, not what I said. Try reading my post again...and again...and then read it one more time. If you still can't get it after that then let me know what your first language is & I'll try to be accommodating.

...though I'm only fully fluent in German & Russian, so if your native tongue isn't one of those we might be at an impasse.

 

[InjuredChoker]

lavine also put up medicore or even bad efficiency to go along with those scoring numbers, including below average PER. his TS was below 0.500 (bulls as a team had 0.529). 16 ppg with medicore efficiency is not good. he scores pretty well because he takes a lot of shots. but he doesn't score enough with those shots that it would help his team win a lot of basketball games.

some people aren't sold on devin booker even though he had better overall and rate stats and with better efficiency than lavine.

edit. bulls had almost identical ORTG whether lavine was on/off the court. DRTG improved alot when he was off the court. matches the eye-test. he can't defend, isn't a good playmaker, shooter nor does he had BB IQ. excellent athlete which occasionally leads to some great highlight reel plays.

 

[dahrougem2]

Now your struggling.

Last year, how many players averaged 16.7 points in 27 minutes or less?

The answer? Two. You stated there were many, and years before are irrelevant.

Even better, of those two players, they played a grand total of 8 games combined.

Kevin Love played 50 plus games with a 28 minute average, but that's still over 27 minutes if my math is correct. On top of him being alot older then 23.

Just take the L on this one. You earned it.

And no, that's not the list I asked for. I asked for 16.7 in 27 minutes. That's the list you tried to pass off.

Dude... your basketball knowledge is looking extremely limited the more you dismiss things. But please, continue.

 

[dahrougem2]

Is Lauri Markkanen getting ruined by Chicago Bulls?

You realize I was talking about Sacramento, right?

 

[MMC]

I guess the Bulls are to the Basketball section what the Leafs are to the main boards

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Hezonja is a bum, but what's important about his signing for the Knicks was that it was just for 1 year, not the multiple years you were offering him. That's what's different from what the Knicks usually do and what the Kings are still trying to do.

Kings are currently about 15 million under the cap floor. They have to add salary, and it will have to be by either overpaying a short-term option or taking on cap dumps for a pick. The deal Brooklyn just made would have been perfect for the Kings.

I doubt New York is in a similar situation.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

lavine also put up medicore or even bad efficiency to go along with those scoring numbers, including below average PER. his TS was below 0.500 (bulls as a team had 0.529). 16 ppg with medicore efficiency is not good. he scores pretty well because he takes a lot of shots. but he doesn't score enough with those shots that it would help his team win a lot of basketball games.

some people aren't sold on devin booker even though he had better overall and rate stats and with better efficiency than lavine.

edit. bulls had almost identical ORTG whether lavine was on/off the court. DRTG improved alot when he was off the court. matches the eye-test. he can't defend, isn't a good playmaker, shooter nor does he had BB IQ. excellent athlete which occasionally leads to some great highlight reel plays.

You do know LaVine missed almost an entire year from injury, correct? He was averaging .45 fg% up until his injury then after he came back he was under 4. Of course he's gonna shoot bad.

But, let's point out Harden, another guy who plays no defense who has a career fg% of .440 and he just won MVP.

Let me sum it up;
LaVine doesn't suck. He is what he is and that's a scorer. What he did playing limited minutes last year was just prove he's willing to shoot and still averaged 16.7 in 27 minutes. That, again, doesn't suck.

I was told what he did last year has been done by many, then was given a list of players from years past to try and justify a false claim. I was also told McDavids points mean more then LaVines even tho both players were on garbage teams and that "somebody has to score on bad teams" only applies to LaVine, but not McDavid.

What I DID do, was use common memes against those same pundits and made them look foolish, by and large, knowing, before I did this, that this was the same fourm where Kris Dunn was labeled a "bust" and that Markkanen was nothing more then the next Channing Frye or Raif Lafrenz. I am also told common bench players like Jerian Grant are "productive" players, but premium scorers like LaVine, who are productive, shouldnt be kept when a contract was signed with injury term placed into it by the Kings for the Bulls to take advantage of and pretty much covers them.

I am also learned in the art of letting your own talent just walk away without getting anything in return, and that the Bulls, with a decent contract with injury term, should just walk away from a guy who still has sky high potential, to boot.

Only on these forums, btw.

And lasty, it's not fair comparing LaVine to McDavid.

LaVine makes twice as much. It's not fair to Connor. At all. One bit.

 

[InjuredChoker]

harden has had one season when he had TS% (TS takes account different shot shot types, 2pt, 3pt and FTs) that was below lavine's best, harden's rookie year. his 2nd worst TS is better than lavine's best. his rookie years TS also beats lavine's 2nd best. harden's rookie year is the only year when he had below average PER. lavine has had that every year so far on his career. harden is better FT shooter, gets more FTs, shoots relatively more 3s compared to 2st than lavine and shoots 2s more efficiently. hardens teams also do better job at outscoring the opposing team when he's on the court vs when he's off. the opposite happens with lavine.

the post you quoted literally had another example in devin booker who many people aren't sold on despite scoring more and with better efficiency than lavine. it's not lavine vs. mcdavid, it's hockey vs basketball. lots of players in the past have put up points with bad efficiency on bad teams. exactly/about the same mins (27/g) and points (~17) as lavine is more rare. booker would be a lot more apt comp for mcdavid and he doesn't even come close.

i do agree he has more potential than what he's shown so far but not on skyhigh. not being great natural shooter and BB IQ issues put a limit on his potential.

it's not just on these forums were people are low on lavine and/or think this contract isn't good. check any major NBA forum and you have people saying the same thing.