GDT: Kings in CGY to get burned in the throne by the almighty FLAMES 7PM start time boyos

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OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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Guys? Is it just me or does Kylington look more impactful than Andersson has?

Naturally. Kylington is the superior player. He outproduced Andersson 5v5 last year too, but Andersson got all the press because

1) He had the better partner in Wotherspoon, which gave him the better +/- (a lol stat)
2) He played on the top power play unit for Stockton, which made people think he was producing more
 
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crackdown44

Cold milk cools down hot food
Dec 1, 2017
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Naturally. Kylington is the superior player. He outproduced Andersson 5v5 last year too, but Andersson got all the press because

1) He had the better partner in Wotherspoon, which gave him the better +/- (a lol stat)
2) He played on the top power play unit for Stockton, which made people think he was producing more

People thought he was producing more because he was producing more. That may have been because he was on the top powerplay unit but I’m sure there was a reason he was there over Kylington as well

Semantics aside I love them both and Valimaki, what a pleasant problem. I wish the log jam was on the right side instead of the left. I definitely don’t want to move anyone now but Stone/Brodie/Hammer are all more expendable down the line than Gio/Hanifin/Kylington/Valimaki

Can’t help but wonder if there would be a possibility down the line to move one of Kylington/Valimaki for an equivalent, young RHD. It would have to be another blue chip player coming back though and that rarely happens
 
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OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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People thought he was producing more because he was producing more. That may have been because he was on the top powerplay unit but I’m sure there was a reason he was there over Kylington as well

Yes, he is almost a year older, and has the slightly better draft pedigree, with a better "reputation" so it's natural he has been given the opportunities. I like Andersson and I'm glad he succeeded in the AHL and now the NHL, I'm just pointing out that Kylington was in fact more productive within whatever he could control.

Semantics aside I love them both and Valimaki, what a pleasant problem.

Indeed. It's a shame we can't just bury Valimaki in the minors until Mark Giordano's contract runs its course and he retires, (we burned a year of his ELC, so we could bury him until 2021, but Giordano's under contract until 2022). Also a shame that one of Hanifin, Kylington or Andersson will have to be exposed to the Seattle expansion (we can protect Giordano, plus two D, and Brodie/Hamonic should be able to sneak through as they are UFAs at that moment, unless we extend them before expansion).

I wish the log jam was on the right side instead of the left. I definitely don’t want to move anyone now but Stone/Brodie/Hammer are all more expendable down the line than Gio/Hanifin/Kylington/Valimaki

Although they are older, I would argue Brodie and Hammer are less expendable than Hanifin and Valimaki. They've both got about five years left of prime in them and that's our cup window.

Can’t help but wonder if there would be a possibility down the line to move one of Kylington/Valimaki for an equivalent, young RHD. It would have to be another blue chip player coming back though and that rarely happens

I would offer Valimaki or even Hanifin for Flyers prospect Philippe Myers, who I am extremely high on. Kylington-Myers would have the potential to be a premier pairing in the NHL. Myers would also make BOTH Hamonic and Andersson expendable IMO. Not that I want to get rid of either, just saying.

Giordano-Brodie
Kylington-Myers
Valimaki-Hamonic or Hanifin-Andersson or Hanifin-Andersson or Valimaki-Hamonic

Andersson returns an elite forward which we still need
 
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Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
Kylington is doing two things that he wasn't doing before - even in pre-season.

Moving the puck with purpose. I lost count of the times I've seen him with feather-weight passes, that were intercepted or caused the receiver to over-skate. He was used to adjusting to the slowness of lesser leagues.

He's making waa-aay better decisions on offense, particularly at the offensive blue-line. Pinching smarter, and joining the rush when appropriate. Way more alert defensively too - thanks to the time spent in the AHL.

Honestly if he was doing these things in September, he probably would have beaten out Valimaki for a roster spot.

As it is, it's looking like he's played his way onto the roster.
 

Mobiandi

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Jan 17, 2015
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I thought Kylington had a boring, unimpressive camp. He was doing none of the things that make him stand out as a player and was also at fault for a considerable number of goals against. It's sort of like he came into camp expecting to be sent down; it probably wasn't his actual mindset but his play reflected it

He's been really solid since coming up though. Better than Hanifin imo
 
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Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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There’s always been a stigma on our board that Oliver is just an offensive player, but is awful defensively and makes bad passes. While I admit that he had holes in his game when drafted (most kids do), there were numerous accounts from the Flames on his development over the last 3 years that he has leaps made in overall play. I think we are clearly seeing that. He’s made some mistakes, but he looks very impressive and tailor made for today’s NHL.

It’s pretty clear why he felt he was gonna make the team before the season started because he absolutely belongs in the NHL.
 

Nanuuk

Registered User
Nov 16, 2013
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I can't see making a trade for Meyers. At least not by trading a young defenceman. He was un-drafted and attended the Flames 2015 development camp and was not invited to the main camp. He attended Philly's the next year and impressed. He didn't impress here and that could be on the coaches we just turfed. Or not. Could have just been a bad camp. I'm a firm believer in the old saw that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Valimaki is proving himself as a 20 year old rookie in the NHL. Andersson as well. And now it seems the ugly duckling Kylington is turning into a swan. A very tough problem to have, but I wouldn't trade any of the young guys unless we stand to lose one of them in the expansion draft.

Philly is in tough this year and needs help. They are playing a trio of young D right now, Hagg (23), Povorov (21), and Sanheim (22). Looking at their stats, they seem to be coming along quite nicely. After that there prospect depth at D isn't a lot, but more RD than LD. Philly has three LHS players playing RD (Gostisbehere, McDonald, Sanheim) so I think they'd be wanting an RD more than a LD.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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There’s always been a stigma on our board that Oliver is just an offensive player, but is awful defensively and makes bad passes. While I admit that he had holes in his game when drafted (most kids do), there were numerous accounts from the Flames on his development over the last 3 years that he has leaps made in overall play. I think we are clearly seeing that. He’s made some mistakes, but he looks very impressive and tailor made for today’s NHL.

It’s pretty clear why he felt he was gonna make the team before the season started because he absolutely belongs in the NHL.

I've said this many times: there are two kinds of hockey sense:

Hockey IQ - the capacity to learn and innate ability pick up concepts and know when to apply them

Hockey Knowledge - the habits built from having great coaching.

A lot of the time, guys who have pro hockey bloodlines - coach's son types like Leon Draisaitl, Connor McDavid, Rasmus Andersson, Johnny Gaudreau, Carey Price, Rasmus Dahlin, Jacob Chychrun, William Nylander, Max Domi, Matthew Tkachuk - guys who grew up around the game, have a serious edge in hockey knowledge early on.

Guys like Sam Bennett and Oliver Kylington, or elsewhere Jack Eichel and Nathan MacKinnon often have their inexperience mistaken for a lack of hockey IQ and these narratives grow out of control. They need more time to truly learn the game because they didn't learn it the same way at seven years old to the point where certain aspects of "pro hockey" were as instinctual. It's not a lack of hockey IQ, just a lack of hockey knowledge in players too talented to be playing against their agegroup peers. Kylington some may forget once had to choose between soccer and hockey. Giordano once had to choose between baseball and hockey. Bennett had to learn the fine details of the center position once he got to junior because prior to that he was always so talented that he played LW with McDavid, and Kingston was hardly an NHLer factory in terms of development.

It's way too easy to make sweeping declarations about hockey IQ. The coached side of hockey sense is too easily brushed under the rug. Not everyone lived and breathed hockey theory as a child. Some guys need time in video room. They need it explained to them what the correct play in a certain situation is, because they really don't know... yet. Some players are just more raw than others - it does not mean they lack hockey IQ. On the flip side, you can have all the Griffin and Max Reinharts who got by on their hockey knowledge at lower levels, but that doesn't mean their hockey IQ was anything special.

In Kylington's draft year, Hakan Loob basically said outright that his ceiling was skyhigh but he needed the structure of coaches who would put the time on with him. Hanifin's actually the same way - he admits not knowing how to play defense when he got to the NHL, but Peters has been working with him through Hurricanes fans' claims of low IQ.

Now we are seeing a more polished Oliver Kylington, where the hockey knowledge is now there. Some of it was built from experience, too. I think he will never forget the moment he coughed up the puck in the third period of a winner takes all game 5 against the Barricuda, up a goal. He didn't know why there are certain situations you need to go glass and out until he experienced why. It cost them a second round berth but it made him a better player.

Finally, as Kris Versteeg noted with regard to TJ Brodie during this game's intermission, often it is the players who CAN do more, that are crucified for it when the mistake doesn't "look" good.
 
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Flames Fanatic

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As one of the cautious optimists on Kylington, partially because I hate over hyping prospects, partially because you lot drove me mad before that draft and during it, I'm more than happy to eat crow. I always wanted him to succeed, but I felt the hype train was off the rails before he was ever even drafted and tried to be the cautious optimist and probably came across as purely pessimist.

He's played well. I need to see it sustained now. Lord knows we've had prospects come up for a handful of games, excel and then slow down.
 
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Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
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As one of the cautious optimists on Kylington, partially because I hate over hyping prospects, partially because you lot drove me mad before that draft and during it, I'm more than happy to eat crow. I always wanted him to succeed, but I felt the hype train was off the rails before he was ever even drafted and tried to be the cautious optimist and probably came across as purely pessimist.

He's played well. I need to see it sustained now. Lord knows we've had prospects come up for a handful of games, excel and then slow down.

To be fair, he had a dud game in Chicago; hence being stapled to the bench in the third.
I think he's a good prospect, still a ways to go with him in terms of development. Would rather him back in Stockton once Valimaki is healthy so he can continue playing 1D type minutes and working on all areas in the game. I still feel a lot more comfortable with Andersson or Valimaki on the ice than I do with Oliver; which isn't so much a slight on him, but more so a nod to our impressive depth.

Really liked what he's shown though, I think he could really round out to a really solid top 6D for us in the long term.
 
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Mr Snrub

I like the way Snrub thinks!
Oct 12, 2016
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It's tough because I actually think that Kylington has looked better than Valimaki and is altogether more ready, but you don't want to send the message to Valimaki that he's doing anything wrong by sending him down.

One of our defensemen is likely moving this offseason in a deal to pick up a goaltender, there's some real depth back there that the Flames should use to plug another hole.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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Against Chicago, Kylington had five shifts in the first, four shifts in the second, and five shifts in the third. There was no benching. He's not getting any time on special teams at the moment, hence the limited minutes (second period had that five minute major to Kunitz and a few Flames penalties).

Peters has him pretty clearly demarcated as the sixth defenceman right now but at the same time, Kylington's shown that the fear mongering around his game was just that.
 
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SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
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Against Chicago, Kylington had five shifts in the first, four shifts in the second, and five shifts in the third. There was no benching. He's not getting any time on special teams at the moment, hence the limited minutes (second period had that five minute major to Kunitz and a few Flames penalties).

Peters has him pretty clearly demarcated as the sixth defenceman right now but at the same time, Kylington's shown that the fear mongering around his game was just that.

I would disagree there in that in the third there were 2 occasions against Chicago where he was caught pinching when he maybe should not have been. If Smith was not clutch he could have cost us the 2 points. He was also gliding in the O-zone on a shift looking for the offense when he should have been changing.
 
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Calculon

unholy acting talent
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If you're expectations are that he play flawlessly well then you're always going to be disappointed. There were mistakes yes, but mistakes no different than what Valimaki, Andersson, and Hanifin have made this season.

It was the fifth NHL game of his career. Some things will come with experience but you can't deny the obvious talent and potential. Not unless you fixate on the mistakes while ignoring everything else.
 

InfinityIggy

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Jan 30, 2011
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If you're expectations are that he play flawlessly well then you're always going to be disappointed. There were mistakes yes, but mistakes no different than what Valimaki, Andersson, and Hanifin have made this season.

It was the fifth NHL game of his career. Some things will come with experience but you can't deny the obvious talent and potential. Not unless you fixate on the mistakes while ignoring everything else.

True, the concern with Kylington is and continues to be that we see those kind of mistakes just about every game he plays. This issue is also somewhat prevalent at the AHL level as well. The question is if as he imroves those lapses will start to disappear. It's the biggest knock on his game by far at this point. His talent is self evident.
 
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Flames Fanatic

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True, the concern with Kylington is and continues to be that we see those kind of mistakes just about every game he plays. This issue is also somewhat prevalent at the AHL level as well. The question is if as he approves those lapses will start to disappear. It's the biggest knock on his game by far at this point. His talent is self evident.

Also to add to this II, a 3 game sample size isn't anywhere near enough to definitively show that the "fear mongering" was only that, and I heavily dispute that terminology. There was talk of #1D from the day we drafted him at 60th.
 
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SKRusty

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Jan 20, 2016
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True, the concern with Kylington is and continues to be that we see those kind of mistakes just about every game he plays. This issue is also somewhat prevalent at the AHL level as well. The question is if as he approves those lapses will start to disappear. It's the biggest knock on his game by far at this point. His talent is self evident.
Kylington is one of the most talented D-men Calgary has under 30. The only D-man that has more talent IMO is Valimaki.

That said Kylington really has to learn to let the game to come to him and quit forcing the game. Once he learns that patience he has the opportunity to become one of the leagues best.
 
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Mobiandi

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How did Kylington drop to 60 in the first place? Did he turn teams off him after they interviewed him or something
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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True, the concern with Kylington is and continues to be that we see those kind of mistakes just about every game he plays. This issue is also somewhat prevalent at the AHL level as well. The question is if as he imroves those lapses will start to disappear. It's the biggest knock on his game by far at this point. His talent is self evident.
This feels more like reputation than anything because that hasn't been the case at all this year. Or even last season.

But I guess it just comes down narratives and those are hard to shake off.
 

InfinityIggy

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This feels more like reputation than anything because that hasn't been the case at all this year. Or even last season.

But I guess it just comes down narratives and those are hard to shake off.

I mean he made one of those exact gaffs just last night, sometimes reputations are earned. There is more than one narrative going on when it comes to Kylington, that's for sure.
 
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Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
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This feels more like reputation than anything because that hasn't been the case at all this year. Or even last season.

But I guess it just comes down narratives and those are hard to shake off.

Considering his AGM and GM both pointed it out whenever they spoke about Kylington over the past number of years, I don't think it's just down to narrative and those hard up on shaking it off.

I think Oliver is a great talent, and I think the minute it clicks for him Calgary will gain a solid top 6D with some good upside.

Saying it hasn't been the case is a bit of a stretch. This preseason was leaky and so far 1/3 games has been questionable. He'll get there, he's somewhere between where both ends seem to place him. He's not that elite 1D greater than 1/2 of the people currently on our NHL team rank him, and he's not AHL fodder either. He's a good young prospect with some decent upside who has an incredible toolset, but is still trying to tie it all together.

I really don't think a season of playing as Stockton's 1D would hinder him. It did wonders for Andersson.
 
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