Post-Game Talk: kings are bigger. habs almost win

[Moen is Gone]

So, any decent camels available?

How about Bourque and a conditional 3rd for this guy?

 

[Kriss E]

Gamebreaking talent. Not just talented. I mean, even DD has some kind of talent. Plekanec surely has some very good 2-way talent. But when you start analysing gamebreaking talent and elite players, the list goes smaller by the second. But then yes, there's also the kind of coaching that would believe in the players they have and not make those talented players pure grinders. But who on our team has the talent to take a game and put it on his shoulders. A Superior talent like Price just proved this year with his season and the Olympics that he could do it. Who else? We can't even put Subban in there yet with all the deficiencies he has to battle with. Will surely go there soon. Was there in the short season last year. A little tougher this team. We might have Markov on the back end. Up front.....you could put Pacioretty in there and Galchenyuk soon-to-be. But every top team has top players with gamebreaking abilities. We might be going there slowly at every position...but not there yet. Mind you....the weak Eastern Conference might show that you might not need to be that Elite to be a top team. But that would be by default. But that's how the league is made, I guess we can use that to our advantage.

Well, Boston won without any real gamebreaking talent up front either. However, he does up it up a notch in the POs.
But my point is, we do have talent. We have enough talent to play well with three productive line. I mean, don't tell me we can't create three productive lines out of Plek-Max-Gio-Galla-Gally-Eller-DD-Briere-Bourque, especially with Marky and PK on the back end. Really, our ES production is unacceptable.
Sure, it's not quite the Blackhawks, but we have enough to at least be average.
As I previously stated (and it's still true today), Alex Ovechkin has more goals than our scoring leader has points. This and we're not even playing in a defensive system.
It's a farce.

So when our forwards are under producing so badly, it's very tough to know just how much better we could be and how far off we are.

At the end of the day, our top 9 could be playing much better.

 

[Andy]

This team is not a fast team and does not think the game at a fast pace. But this is why we have the team that we have, coached by an average coach but that has to deal with the talent in place. A talent that could be better exploited, but would also demonstrate his limitations if we would go full not grinding.....

I disagree. It's disappointing the fans have bought into the team doesn't have enough talent narrative. I think the talent isn't being used properly. The coach is leaning on the wrong players and putting them in the wrong situations. The Habs could easily have 3 scoring lines, two of which can give the team good possession numbers, but for some reason he's insistent on having only 1 scoring line, and 2 shutdown lines and energy line when it doesn't have to be this way.

The coach had three strong puck movers with Diaz, Subban and Markov...now only two and doesn't use their ability to move the puck. A team with a Norris winner, one of the top PPQBs, an underrated two way centre, a vezina goalie, one of the best scoring LW wingers in the game, with good centre depth and a strong young forwards in Galchenyuk and Gallagher SHOULD NOT STRUGGLE to win games the way the Habs have, especially with the east being so weak.

The team is talented, it just isn't being used properly.

 

[patchface]

Gallagher should learn to take shorter shift, or to better dose his energy. He's completly exhausted at the end of every shift, more than any other player on the team.

I wondered the same thing for quite some time too, but it seems he has asthma - thanks 24CH - so that could be one explanation (that and the fact he kills himself working every shift).

 

[Runner77]

I was at the game, and I saw something totally different I guess.

First of all, I have lived in Southern California for the last four years, so I've seen a lot of the Kings. They were better than they have been for the last several months, but that is still not the best the Kings can play. They are still very sluggish and not physical. I don't think they took this game seriously.

Montreal look amped up to start the game, all the players were moving on the bench during the anthem. LA was flat. But Montreal rarely got to the net all game long. To beat LA you need to have speed and grit, we have a nice little passing game, but do not look much faster than LA...

Six minutes left in a one goal game and Therrien puts his fourth line out for a minute just before the TV timeout... uh, hello? Coach much? Maybe try loading up a line or something?

1- Murray got caught out of position a couple times, but got away with it. Otherwise, he did his job, especially against a big team. He's a #6 dman, we shouldn't expect more. He was great on the kill.

Tinordi made a couple mistakes getting pulled out of position for the hit, but otherwise, I really love the raw potential. He's fine on the third pairing - leave him there! One of the only guys with any energy last night. But I would think twice about pairing him with Murray, so something has to give. And isn't it a bad idea to be playing a young dman on his wrong side? Didn't we make that mistake with Emelin? I would use Murray against big teams and move Tinordi on his proper side (same with Emelin). Comparing Tinordi to Murray is pointless. Tinordi is a future first pairing guy, even as a stay-at-home, Murray is a #6-7 dman his whole career.

2- I thought Markov was ok. He looked a little disorganized at the point. He also looks like he is having trouble with his knee again to me. Cannot crossover to his right. I have a feeling we are seeing the last of him in a Montreal jersey. We have to move him if we can, or let him walk in the summer and hand over the #2 keys to Beaulieu.

3-Emelin was fine. I wouldn't get too excited about his potential, but he is probably landing as a #4 tops, as a complementary player to a #2 dman. Hopefully. He's not quite there yet. The gamble to give him all the money is not paying off.

4-Gorges is very slow now, but he plugs a lot of holes still. There aren't many dmen out there, so not sure about moving him, but on a contender he's third pairing or pressbox. Another overpaid guy as far as ability, but not effort.

5-PK looked great to me. I don't understand the backlash. One of the few dangerous players on the ice for us, with Gallagher and every now and then Galchenyuk.

6-Eller was very flat. Not sure if he's topped out as a third liner or not. If Kesler really is up for grabs, I'd think about it if I were them. Briere is small and very slow, but he does hunt and peck at the net. Not a fan of his game these days though. He's done.

7-Bourque has no hockey sense. I'm pretty sure that's his problem. And he inexplicably does not know how to use his size. He's just not an urgent, quick player. But we badly need his size ... third liner with very little hustle.

8-Gallagher can stay out there the entire game. He does ALL the heavy lifting on this team (with PK). Give him a couple guys with size and passing and maximize his scoring. He needs to get back with Galchenyuk, and maybe Prust to dig out pucks. Desharnais is pretty useless 5-on-5.

9-Galchenyuk is great one-on-one and has nice vision, but he often looks like he has no help.

10-I do not like DD. This is not pee-wee hockey. Yet another overpaid guy (tho he does give the effort).

One of the best in-game accounts I have read on these forums. Thanks much for sharing.

 

[Whitesnake]

Well, Boston won without any real gamebreaking talent up front either. However, he does up it up a notch in the POs.
But my point is, we do have talent. We have enough talent to play well with three productive line. I mean, don't tell me we can't create three productive lines out of Plek-Max-Gio-Galla-Gally-Eller-DD-Briere-Bourque, especially with Marky and PK on the back end. Really, our ES production is unacceptable.
Sure, it's not quite the Blackhawks, but we have enough to at least be average.
As I previously stated (and it's still true today), Alex Ovechkin has more goals than our scoring leader has points. This and we're not even playing in a defensive system.
It's a farce.

So when our forwards are under producing so badly, it's very tough to know just how much better we could be and how far off we are.

At the end of the day, our top 9 could be playing much better.

Boston is a different beast has their depth is incredibly producing, they had and still have a regular Norris candidate on the back end, a great goalie and a great system with a top 3 coach. Yet, I could even suggest that in his 2-way game, Patrice Bergeron is an all-star and has gamebreaking abilities, with his overall play and timely goals.

And no, you can't have 3 productive lines with players we want to get rid of. So you would actually retain all the players we have and only change the goalie to believe that we are a top talented team? If so, it means that Brière wasn't a mistake by Bergevin then. It's a mistake because of how Therrien uses him....but Bergevin gave Therrien a very good player? So Gionta, Bourque, Brière would do really well just with another system? I just don't believe it. Again, it's not all black or white, Therrien might not be the best coach, but we don't have the elite talent that you think we have. But then, we will never know that, as Therrien will keep being the coach.....and the day that he's not the coach, we will have change quite a few players from that list.

 

[tinyzombies]

I disagree. It's disappointing the fans have bought into the team doesn't have enough talent narrative. I think the talent isn't being used properly. The coach is leaning on the wrong players and putting them in the wrong situations. The Habs could easily have 3 scoring lines, two of which can give the team good possession numbers, but for some reason he's insistent on having only 1 scoring line, and 2 shutdown lines and energy line when it doesn't have to be this way.

The coach had three strong puck movers with Diaz, Subban and Markov...now only two and doesn't use their ability to move the puck. A team with a Norris winner, one of the top PPQBs, an underrated two way centre, a vezina goalie, one of the best scoring LW wingers in the game, with good centre depth and a strong young forwards in Galchenyuk and Gallagher SHOULD NOT STRUGGLE to win games the way the Habs have, especially with the east being so weak.

The team is talented, it just isn't being used properly.

I think this team has talent, but it's either aging or too small/slow. We definitely can play the game at a fast pace, we move the puck very well. Problem is, it's not fast enough. The top eams are big and take away time and space very fast if they play conservatively against us. We cannot get to the net. LA is the best defensive team in the league tho, so the takeaway should be measured.

Galchenyuk looks ready to provide more and needs his role expanded. Gallagher needs more help. He cannot be saddled with DD anymore. Seems logical to put these two together. Maybe it's time to put EGG back together, because Eller looks lost out there, and I wonder if there is a lack of effort. In the warmup, I don't see much of a release, and I don't really see that he's working on his game. He was touted as a scorer in the draft. Occasionally he'll use his size, but he's not really that type of player naturally. He doesn't crave that. So, not sure what they can do with him. He doesn't really seem to cause teams a problem from the third line either. It's obvious they've told him to play defense first, as that is the style of this team, so not sure if he's discouraged?

But then that leaves a line of tiny players. We had Briere-DD-Gallagher out the last couple minutes and they did manage to set up a one-timer for DD... but that's not the guy you want taking that shot... and again that was Gallagher doing all the lifting.

I think coaching is an issue on this team as well, unless they are hiding as many shortcomings as they can for playoff time.

The Kings took the night off (as they have most of the year) and still won.

 

[Whitesnake]

I disagree. It's disappointing the fans have bought into the team doesn't have enough talent narrative. I think the talent isn't being used properly. The coach is leaning on the wrong players and putting them in the wrong situations. The Habs could easily have 3 scoring lines, two of which can give the team good possession numbers, but for some reason he's insistent on having only 1 scoring line, and 2 shutdown lines and energy line when it doesn't have to be this way.

The coach had three strong puck movers with Diaz, Subban and Markov...now only two and doesn't use their ability to move the puck. A team with a Norris winner, one of the top PPQBs, an underrated two way centre, a vezina goalie, one of the best scoring LW wingers in the game, with good centre depth and a strong young forwards in Galchenyuk and Gallagher SHOULD NOT STRUGGLE to win games the way the Habs have, especially with the east being so weak.

The team is talented, it just isn't being used properly.

Like I said to Kriss E, define talent. Are you also telling me that you'd keep this team intact because the only reason they are not playing well is because they are stiffled by Therrien's system? Gionta, Brière and Bourque? I choose to not buy Therrien's grinding system. But I also believe we are not as talented as we should be. True though, we should be able to take advantage of a weak Eastern Conference, yet.....it's pretty much what we are doing. Where are we in the standings? The idea is that do we want to do well in the regular season standings or the playoffs? What we've been doing for quite some time now is to do well in teh regular season standings, not do so well in the playoffs and draft too far. Rinse and repeat but then we got Galchenyuk and we're damn happy we did and can say that we might have a gamebreaking talent on our hands.

I keep hearing how that possession system, strangely, was used with Therrien and we were looking much better and nobody understands why he stopped using it. We were looking way much better and didn't seem to lack the talent until.....we were stopped in 5 by Ottawa. But then, we decided to believe that it was solely because of an incredible goalie.....same incredible goalie who after faced real gamebreaking talent and fell on his face.

 

[tinyzombies]

I keep hearing how that possession system, strangely, was used with Therrien and we were looking much better and nobody understands why he stopped using it. We were looking way much better and didn't seem to lack the talent until.....we were stopped in 5 by Ottawa. But then, we decided to believe that it was solely because of an incredible goalie.....same incredible goalie who after faced real gamebreaking talent and fell on his face.

I think he stopped using it because by the time we got to the playoffs we were all beat up. And how do you play possession in the playoffs with a small lineup and win? Defense and Carey is the only other option. Did Marc have any options to make this team better so MT could change the system? I dunno. But Markov is almost done imo, and Beaulieu is the only option to replace him at #2. Then we HAVE to play a defense-first style seems like.

The only big shakeup I could see is moving Eller for a high priced upgrade. Nobody is going to want Bourque, Gionta, Briere, DD. We might find a taker for Plekanec, but at what return? There are no UFA's, and we don't have much on the farm either.

 

[tinyzombies]

thank ****ing god none of you guys are pros in life or in any capacity. the amount you whine and your expectations are amateur.. there's no discipline, and so really there can't be much fun. just sick expectations and entitlement... suck it up. It's a loss. Move on.

I am a professional. And you don't sit there when something is broken. You revise your strategy and fix it. I have no doubt MB is doing this, we are just talking about what we'd do in his shoes. He doesn't have much to work with.

Entitlement to what? You mean the Cup? Isn't that what we're playing for, and not just playoff appearances and longshot strategies?

This team needs a full rebuild after this season, and not half-measures. And we need a new approach as to what style we are going to play, and build a team that can win in the playoffs.

If you don't like to talk hockey, you shouldn't be here.

 

[Pricef*]

I can't wait until 5pm tomorrow when Bergevin basically stands pat (smartest move). The whinning here will be EPIC

 

[tinyzombies]

I can't wait until 5pm tomorrow when Bergevin basically stands pat (smartest move). The whinning here will be EPIC

It's only the smartest move because we have nothing to trade. Not something you should be pounding your chest about.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I can't wait until 5pm tomorrow when Bergevin basically stands pat (smartest move). The whinning here will be EPIC

He should make a move....whether it's selling or buying. Standing pat is dumb when you consider the upcoming UFAs that have no future with the team.

 

[LastRide]

Close, but no cigar.

 

[Kriss E]

Boston is a different beast has their depth is incredibly producing, they had and still have a regular Norris candidate on the back end, a great goalie and a great system with a top 3 coach. Yet, I could even suggest that in his 2-way game, Patrice Bergeron is an all-star and has gamebreaking abilities, with his overall play and timely goals.

And no, you can't have 3 productive lines with players we want to get rid of. So you would actually retain all the players we have and only change the goalie to believe that we are a top talented team? If so, it means that Brière wasn't a mistake by Bergevin then. It's a mistake because of how Therrien uses him....but Bergevin gave Therrien a very good player? So Gionta, Bourque, Brière would do really well just with another system? I just don't believe it. Again, it's not all black or white, Therrien might not be the best coach, but we don't have the elite talent that you think we have. But then, we will never know that, as Therrien will keep being the coach.....and the day that he's not the coach, we will have change quite a few players from that list.

Well all the talent you listed aside from Briere had no issues providing some scoring last year, so I don't see why it's impossible for them to have done so again this year.
My lines are roles would be rearranged. Would they have worked? Who knows. But I think so. It doesn't mean we would have been in the top scoring teams again, but we could be much better than today, that's for sure.

Gallagher was scoring at a 30G pace early this year and I see no reason why that's an unreachable number for him. Having him on one line, and another great scorer in MaxPac on another, that alone would help us. People were saying to split Cole and MaxPac 2 years ago as well. The difference between then and now is we're healthier, have more depth and our goalie is playing awesome. Otherwise it's the same damn thing.
This team is completely disorganized.

 

[Born in 1909]

For the exact same reason that Koivu should have never left...

Teams should reward loyal players with loyalty. Let him finish his career here.

Yep.

Find a way,

 

[sandysan]

I can't wait until 5pm tomorrow when Bergevin basically stands pat (smartest move). The whinning here will be EPIC

the signing of briere shows that, much like the people who buy stuff they didnt need in the supermarket because they have a coupon, if he's expected to move he will, and we can all worry how it addresses the teams weaknesses later.

There's one thing you can count on on trade deadline day as a habs fan, buyers remorse.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Almost win? That's a distortion. The Habs were totally outplayed and lucky not to be shut out.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

I am a professional. And you don't sit there when something is broken. You revise your strategy and fix it. I have no doubt MB is doing this, we are just talking about what we'd do in his shoes. He doesn't have much to work with.

Entitlement to what? You mean the Cup? Isn't that what we're playing for, and not just playoff appearances and longshot strategies?

This team needs a full rebuild after this season, and not half-measures. And we need a new approach as to what style we are going to play, and build a team that can win in the playoffs.

If you don't like to talk hockey, you shouldn't be here.

Entitlement to constant satisfaction, otherwise there wouldn't be this much *****ing when a pebble drops in the water (for example, Weaver).

Full rebuild? No, it won't happen. You can't have this expectation unless you're not understanding the business model of the Montreal Canadiens. It's not going to happen on purpose. It can't happen. We all know what SHOULD happen. It's inherent in everyone.. everyone has their own idea about what SHOULD happen.. but that's not life.. that would be life if you lived by yourself on the planet, and there were not social and business realities to deal with (English Coach? Because.. nothing will change about our strategies until we get the best coach out there, not just the best francais coach... and if two years ago was any indication, this business' identity depends on the french... even though its most successful runs had english coaches and management for the most part).

Hockey talk? I love it. Whining and complaining about every move..? that's what this board is. I come here for news and try to stay out of the other stuff... sometimes though.. Half this stuff isn't hockey talk... unless you consider clucking around the roost like a bunch of chicken hens clucking, cluck, clucking.. it's annoying.. Discussion is different. It's not just flipping out and being angry at every loss, deprecating after a win. Spending more time *****ing about how the other team's fans are *****ing about us. Ew. I love hockey talk. Not ********.

 

[HABS win CUPS*]

So, any decent camels available?

How about Bourque and a conditional 3rd for this guy?

and Therrien will bench that camel if it doesnt perform

 

[macavoy]

the signing of briere shows that, much like the people who buy stuff they didnt need in the supermarket because they have a coupon, if he's expected to move he will, and we can all worry how it addresses the teams weaknesses later.

There's one thing you can count on on trade deadline day as a habs fan, buyers remorse.

Confirmed lol