KHL Season 2019/20

[Rogue Leader]

Can someone explain why the scoring is so much lower in the KHL than the NHL? The goalies are not better, also the defenseman. Most of the teams have some offensive firepower ... How are almost all games under 5 goals?

 

[EXTRAS]

How has daniil misyul looked this year?

 

[Section Netherlands]

Can someone explain why the scoring is so much lower in the KHL than the NHL? The goalies are not better, also the defenseman. Most of the teams have some offensive firepower ... How are almost all games under 5 goals?

Why is KHL such low scoring league?

 

[Rogue Leader]

Why is KHL such low scoring league?

I have read that thread and I still don't understand. Is it that coaches prioritize not to receive a goal, rather than score a goal?

 

[rohky]

Thoughts on the best players of the week as Bilyalov, Galenyuk. Lander, Marchenko?

Best Players of the tenth Week: Bilyalov, Galenyuk, Lander, and Marchenko

 

[rohky]

Mario Kempe is back. Former Vityaz Podolsk forward will play for CSKA Moscow. Any thoughts on this move?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Still can't understand why would CSKA take him. Because they can. Seems like the only answer.

How has daniil misyul looked this year?

He has been pretty good. Got a lot better with the puck, even compared to the last year. All the tools are there. Big, mobile, puck skills are coming along.. He is going to make the NHL one day.

 

[rohky]

The last action hero! Shipachyov scores within 1 sec to go in OT.

VIDEO

 

[Atas2000]

Can someone explain why the scoring is so much lower in the KHL than the NHL? The goalies are not better, also the defenseman. Most of the teams have some offensive firepower ... How are almost all games under 5 goals?

Goalies are relatively better. Where do the top 100 forwards play? Where do the top 100 goalies play? The goalie gap is much, much smaller

 

[Rogue Leader]

Goalies are relatively better. Where do the top 100 forwards play? Where do the top 100 goalies play? The goalie gap is much, much smaller

Ahhh, thank you!!! Now this really opens my eyes!

 

[SoundAndFury]

Ahhh, thank you!!! Now this really opens my eyes!

It would be true if good KHL goalies allowed fewer goals than bad/worse ones. Yet the results seem to be mostly team-dependant so even if Atas' argument holds some truth to it it also doesn't explain why some good teams score way fewer goals than the bad ones and some truly bad goalies have amazing Sv%.

Someone like Eddie Pasquale was a fairly mediocre AHL goalie for most of his career yet his numbers in the KHL vastly surpass those in NA. So if players in the AHL aren't better (which we know quite firmly they are not) the real difference is the way teams play.

Furthermore, if we were to believe Atas' argument, the lower down the hockey ladder we went the lower scoring would be. Because why not go "where top-1000 of shooters play and where top-1000 of goalies". Yet we, once again, know that isn't the case at all and the scoring varies between the leagues way more than the level of play there.

The argument Atas makes is completely debunked that way. It's not about top-100 or top-1000, it's about top-1% or top 5%. It's not like youth hockey teams have 30 goalies and only the best of them make the cut. 15 times less goalies play pro hockey but also they made it out of 15 times shallower talent pool.

To sum up, it doesn't explain team-dependancy, doesn't explain significantly varying scoring between leagues of a similar level of play, doesn't explain significant differences in Sv% between the same goalies switching leagues/teams and if the "overflow of good goalies" effect would indeed be true we would see it going further down the hockey pyramid than just between NHL and KHL.

 

[Rogue Leader]

It would be true if good KHL goalies allowed fewer goals than bad/worse ones. Yet the results seem to be mostly team-dependant so even if Atas' argument holds some truth to it it also doesn't explain why some good teams score way fewer goals than the bad ones and some truly bad goalies have amazing Sv%.

Someone like Eddie Pasquale was a fairly mediocre AHL goalie for most of his career yet his numbers in the KHL vastly surpass those in NA. So if players in the AHL aren't better (which we know quite firmly they are not) the real difference is the way teams play.

Furthermore, if we were to believe Atas' argument, the lower down the hockey ladder we went the lower scoring would be. Because why not go "where top-1000 of shooters play and where top-1000 of goalies". Yet we, once again, know that isn't the case at all and the scoring varies between the leagues they more than the level of play there.

The argument Atas makes is completely debunked that way. It's not about top-100 or top-1000, it's about top-1% or top 5%. It's not like youth hockey teams have 30 goalies and only the best of them make the cut. 15 times less goalies play pro hockey but also they made it out of 15 times shallower talent pool.

To sum up, it doesn't explain team-dependancy, doesn't explain significantly varying scoring between leagues of a similar level of play, doesn't explain significant differences in Sv% between the same goalies switching leagues/teams and if the "overflow of good goalies" effect would indeed be true we would see it going further down the hockey pyramid than just between NHL and KHL.

Hey, thanks! This also seems to make sense, but could you explain your theory of why scoring is down? Seems like this is very complicated.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Hey, thanks! This also seems to make sense, but could you explain your theory of why scoring is down? Seems like this is very complicated.

It is indeed complicated so it's hard to give a definite answer without more serious research.

But it is the way the teams play. Most KHL teams play at a very slow pace and try to keep it relatively risk-free. Defensemen aren't involved in either offensive zone or when breaking out. That's generally the problem with Russian D development, they are there to defend and shoot from the point once in a while, the tactic NHL has moved on from 10 years ago. Controlled breakouts, as we now call them, are a rarity. Mid zone trap is still very much a thing. Little to no offensive zone forecheck. Very cautious about double-screen 5 on 5 to not get trapped up the ice... And you can just see how slow and down-tempo the games are.

Ak Bars are playing probably the most NHL-like hockey in the league at the moment and they are leading the league in goals, points and only 2 of their games went to OT. With the roster that didn't look overly impressive in the summer either. That kind of hockey had its downsides on the big ice but now, with mostly smaller rinks, I think it's quite obvious how effective it is. Meanwhile, those trap and grind teams, even though the 2 point system keeps them very much afloat, are struggling. SKA has won 11 games in regulation and lost 9, with all that talent.

The thing about the KHL coaches, they really don't seem to adapt or evolve very much. They achieved some relative success coaching a certain type of game, most likely inspired by the way they had success in their playing days (this applies to Skudra, Skabelka, etc., that 40-50 y.o. generation) and they just keep at it. I tied a lot of low scoring woes to the big ice but we can see now the size of an ice sheet really doesn't play the major role. I'm afraid we will have to wait for the new generation of coaches, who have seen the way teams have success over the last 10 years, to bring in the change.

On that note, it's kind of amazing the way some NHL coaches work, like Barry Trotz, he has coached 3 very different teams and they have achieved success in 3 very different ways. Now that's a real master of his craft.

P.S. Just in case somebody gets mad at me again, this is arbitrary speculation, not a piece of serious research.

 

[Rogue Leader]

It is indeed complicated so it's hard to give a definite answer without more serious research.

But it is the way the teams play. Most KHL teams play at a very slow pace and try to keep it relatively risk-free. Defensemen aren't involved in either offensive zone or when breaking out. That's generally the problem with Russian D development, they are there to defend and shoot from the point once in a while, the tactic NHL has moved on from 10 years ago. Controlled breakouts, as we now call them, are a rarity. Mid zone trap is still very much a thing. Little to no offensive zone forecheck. Very cautious about double-screen 5 on 5 to not get trapped up the ice... And you can just see how slow and down-tempo the games are.

Ak Bars are playing probably the most NHL-like hockey in the league at the moment and they are leading the league in goals, points and only 2 of their games went to OT. With the roster that didn't look overly impressive in the summer either. That kind of hockey had its downsides on the big ice but now, with mostly smaller rinks, I think it's quite obvious how effective it is. Meanwhile, those trap and grind teams, even though the 2 point system keeps them very much afloat, are struggling. SKA has won 11 games in regulation and lost 9, with all that talent.

The thing about the KHL coaches, they really don't seem to adapt or evolve very much. They achieved some relative success coaching a certain type of game, most likely inspired by the way they had success in their playing days (this applies to Skudra, Skabelka, etc., that 40-50 y.o. generation) and they just keep at it. I tied a lot of low scoring woes to the big ice but we can see now the size of an ice sheet really doesn't play the major role. I'm afraid we will have to wait for the new generation of coaches, who have seen the way teams have success over the last 10 years, to bring in the change.

On that note, it's kind of amazing the way NHL some coaches work, like Barry Trotz, he has coached 3 very different teams and they have achieved success in 3 very different ways. Now that's a real master of his craft.

P.S. Just in case somebody gets mad at me again, this is arbitrary speculation, not a piece of serious research.

Thank you very much! It’s very smart and well writen. Thanks for helping me understand the KHL better!!!

 

[SoundAndFury]

I must say if has been quite a while since Jokerit - Loko game felt like it's 2 good teams playing each other. Quite amazing those are 7th and 8th team in the conference.

 

[Poiquets]

Jokerit had a total of 2 minutes and 33 seconds of 5-3 Pp in the third period and it looked mostly bad. At the end of the second PP they were able to create some chances but overall a very bad pp. They also constantly gave Lokomotiv the chance to clear the zone on 5-3 due to their laziness in front of the net.

 

[Atas2000]

Damn, the KHL is so polarizing!!!

Of course.

This is a NHL first board. And the KHL is the only league that gets into comparison territory as the 2nd best league. A lot of spears will be broken.

I for my part am a Team Russia's and my KHL team's fan first and foremost. The NHL is to me a source of hockey entertainment(which it is less and less in recent years) and a place where Team Russia's players play. The KHL though I would probably still follow if my team plays bad for 20 years straight(it happenned back in the day). I don't think I have any other interests than young Russians becoming the best possible hockey players. As long as Team Russia would win I would be fine with them playing in China. And yes, I would like to see more russian stars stay at home, but I understand the league has to reach that level first to be enticing enough not only on the money side. I try to keep an eye on what's going on around the world too. But I try to keep it pragmatic with the analysis though. There are good and bad things everywhere. And a lot of bad things in the KHL are just due to the lack of talent(while it is of course superior to many other leagues, but in terms of top talent there are just not enough players there to play that beautiful game), not because of some stupid coaches who don't know how to make their supertalented lineups play great.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Of course.

This is a NHL first board. And the KHL is the only league that gets into comparison territory as the 2nd best league. A lot of spears will be broken.

I for my part am a Team Russia's and my KHL team's fan first and foremost. The NHL is to me a source of hockey entertainment(which it is less and less in recent years) and a place where Team Russia's players play. The KHL though I would probably still follow if my team plays bad for 20 years straight(it happenned back in the day). I don't think I have any other interests than young Russians becoming the best possible hockey players. As long as Team Russia would win I would be fine with them playing in China. And yes, I would like to see more russian stars stay home, but I understand the league has to reach that level first to be enticing enough not only on the money side. I try to keep an eye on what's going on around the world too. But I try to keep it pragmatic with the analysis though. There are good and bad things everywhere. And a lot of bad things in the KHL are just due to the lack of talent(while it is of course superior to many other leagues, but in terms of top talent there are just not enough players there to play that beautiful game), not because of some stupid coaches don't know how to make their supertalented lineups play great.

This is amazing! I have become a big fan of the KHL. Maybe someday we can chat in Russian.

 

[rohky]

Kirill Kaprizov can score from wherever he wants. I wonder if he is going to stay in KHL next season...

 

[rohky]

Born in the Far North, survived star fever, and now burns in the KHL. Who is Vladislav Kara?

Родился на Крайнем Севере, пережил звездную болезнь, а теперь жжет в КХЛ. Кто такой Владислав Кара [you can translate it using Google]

 

[SoundAndFury]

Barys won against Magnitka today but it marks 15th game without a regulation win for them. Also, they scored more than 2 goals 3 times over the last 21 games.

 

[rohky]

Best Players of the 11th Week: Kovar, Rukavishnikov, Soshnikov, and Galimov. Any thoughts?

 

[rohky]

Finnish-Russian job. Beautiful 2-on-1 by Kemppainen & Kagarlitsky

 

[rohky]

17-year Yaroslav Askarov will make his KHL debut tonight for SKA against HC Sochi. Big day for very talented goalie.

 

[tbassler]

Kirill Kaprizov can score from wherever he wants. I wonder if he is going to stay in KHL next season...

CAn he take those mediocre KHL goalies with him?