KHL (Kontinental Hockey League) 2012-2013 General Discussion part III

[SoundAndFury]

2. Let me take a wild guess. You haven't seen him or other russian prospects play on junior level much? My wild guess is I have a much better sample size on russian junior hockey than you.

3. Stats reflect a lot of stuff for ppl like you tio thrive on. You can make everything you need out of them. Your 1st line argument is the most laughable one.

Numbers are for geeks. How many points John Tavares would score once on a decent team? What would Pavel Datsyuk's point totals look like if he hat a decent winger? How many hits Alexei Yemelin would have if not in Montreal? Anfd how would all those players look on big ice?

You can compare whatever you want. Ovechkin sucks in the NHL, but he was the OV-Beast on the NT and with Dinamo Moscow, so I don't care. There are too many factors no stat will ever tell you.

First, I did and I have. Second, yes you may have a better sample size on Russian junior hockey which is absolutely irrelevant in this discussion because we are comparing players from all over the world (how is sample size on MHL relevant when you compare Nichushkin and MacKinnon?).

On the other hand, I doubt if you could tell 3 best teams in the CHL without looking them up on the Internet. Knowledge of Russian junior hockey doesn't make you an expert on the matter.

To quote Mr. Kekalainen, "Stats are facts...In the long run they hardly ever lie. Thorough analytical work is needed to make a proper evaluation of them.". And this fella drafted Hossa, Perron, Spezza, Pietrangelo, Tarasenko and etc. so by "making everything he needs from them" he's done a pretty good job. You may call these people geeks but in fact they can simply understand what the numbers are saying better than you and that's the direction hockey world moves to (although I guess these ideas will show up in Russia in no less than 10 years).

About your rhetorical questions regarding Tavares, Datsyuk, and Emelin - ever heard about advanced stats?

Same with Ovechkin but in his case I find it curious how you say I'm using some kind of twisted logics and at the same time you are pointing at how well Ovi performs against all this B-level opposition (I know, I know, here comes your belief about how good the KHL is)

I've seen those players with different coaches in different situations(also off the ice). I can tell a unique player from a very good one. Gretzky was unique, Crosby is unique(I don't like him as a person at all), but then there is a whole bunch of just great players.

So what's your point on this one? Russia has more unique players or you are brilliant at evaluating talent or there's just no point at all in this paragraph?

Also the fact that you stick with the NHL only speaks volumes. "1st line in the NHL = GOD. Not 1st line in the NHL = BUST" Great orwellesque logic.

What else should I stick with? It's the best league in the world where the best players in the world (even Russian ones) play. Also the quantity of information about the NHL is unmatched.

And this one - "1st line in the NHL = GOD. Not 1st line in the NHL = BUST" - I don't know what the hell are you talking about but if you truly misunderstand what people are saying to you this bad I don't know why do you bother coming to discuss here.

 

[VladNYC*]

Wrong thread guys...

 

[NotProkofievian]

Does anyone know if Buchnevich will be with the big club for tomorrow's game vs Lokomotiv?

 

[vorky]

Does anyone know if Buchnevich will be with the big club for tomorrow's game vs Lokomotiv?

He played 1st game against Lokomotiv today, ice time 2:57. IMO he will be there tommorow as well, at least on bench.

 

[NotProkofievian]

He played 1st game against Lokomotiv today, ice time 2:57. IMO he will be there tommorow as well, at least on bench.

Wow, that's really not a lot of ice-time. I think I'll catch the game anyways. Thanks.

 

[westernhome]

why no fighting??

compared to last year, there has been almost zero fighting in the khl

why is that?

 

[Vicente]

compared to last year, there has been almost zero fighting in the khl

why is that?

Because the sport is hockey, not ultimate fighting. People want to see nice matches not goons who beat the sh** out of their opponents.

And Vityaz has actually concentrated on playing good hockey than hiring another group of idiots.

 

[billcook]

Dunno. Maybe busy playing hockey? Mystery...

 

[russianhockey]

Good so

 

[SoundAndFury]

Actually you could have figured it out yourself quite easily:

Is there any need for fighting in the KHL? -There is none or in extremely rare cases; >> So why was there some fights last year? -Because there was a team deploying a goon brigade to the ice every night which is well-documented in your avatar; >> Why is that no more? -They took their interest to actually winning some hockey games this year.

And that's basically it

 

[westernhome]

Actually you could have figured it out yourself quite easily:

Is there any need for fighting in the KHL? -There is none or in extremely rare cases; >> So why was there some fights last year? -Because there was a team deploying a goon brigade to the ice every night which is well-documented in your avatar; >> Why is that no more? -They took their interest to actually winning some hockey games this year.

And that's basically it

hmm, ok, thanks, but it seemed to me it wasn't just vityaz fighting last year, although vityaz were in fights almost every game it seemed

so just vityaz coaches telling their players not to fight has caused this league wide change?? seems really strange for me that things would change that drastically overnight like that, odd

 

[Vicente]

hmm, ok, thanks, but it seemed to me it wasn't just vityaz fighting last year, although vityaz were in fights almost every game it seemed

so just vityaz coaches telling their players not to fight has caused this league wide change?? seems really strange for me that things would change that drastically overnight like that, odd

It's a league wide policy to offer a good hockey product with few real violence in it so it attracts more people. We are not in North America where people can't see hockey without fights.

 

[SoundAndFury]

hmm, ok, thanks, but it seemed to me it wasn't just vityaz fighting last year, although vityaz were in fights almost every game it seemed

so just vityaz coaches telling their players not to fight has caused this league wide change?? seems really strange for me that things would change that drastically overnight like that, odd

It wasn't only Vityaz fighting last year and some fights broke out this year too. Counting fights of other teams than Vityaz number remained pretty much the same, I think. So it wasn't a league wide change to begin with.

Regarding Vityaz, it didn't happen overnight. It happened during the off-season and it's plenty of time to make policy decisions like this one. Furthermore, I think it was only the question of time until they realize you can't "play" like that in the KHL.

So at first, they got rid of their Canadian goons and Timkin is arguably the only good fighter left on the roster but since he's a top-6 forward he can't fight much. They hired a coach who is a fan of an old-school Russian hockey instead of rock 'em sock em' kind of thing preferred by previous head coach Nazarov who moved on to coach Severstal and still uses Gimbatov in the enforcer role from time to time there.

So Vityaz neither have a personnel nor the coach to play that kind of game anymore.

 

[vorky]

Maybe people know that Vityaz changed ownership last summer.. new owner does not support fights. And SoundAndFury wrote the rest of story.

 

[westernhome]

Maybe people know that Vityaz changed ownership last summer.. new owner does not support fights. And SoundAndFury wrote the rest of story.

oh ok thanks guys, I didn't know all that

I'm kind of disappointed to be honest, I'm more of a Canadian old school slapshot style of rough hockey fan, and really enjoyed the khl last year, this year not really finding a lot to get excited about to be honest

but I guess like anything, change will make some happy and some unhappy, you can't please everyone

 

[Vicente]

oh ok thanks guys, I didn't know all that

I'm kind of disappointed to be honest, I'm more of a Canadian old school slapshot style of rough hockey fan, and really enjoyed the khl last year, this year not really finding a lot to get excited about to be honest

but I guess like anything, change will make some happy and some unhappy, you can't please everyone

Don't get me wrong. I am not against fights in general but the Vityaz guys in previous seasons just started to beat everything out of far smaller guys who barely ever are involved in fights. That's just an terrible attitude.

 

[afrobomber11]

khl allstar team

if you could send a team made of guys from all the khl teams to represent it, who would be on your team?


im thinking something like:

barulin
garnett
ramo

medvedev-nikulin
dallman-koltsov
mamashev-kalinen
kronwall

mozyakin-thoreson-radulov
frolov-kuznetsov-morozov
thornberg-kontiola-popov
dawes-stapleton-artyukhin
kokarev

please criticize

 

[vorky]

it is always subjective to choose a league selects. Your picks are good, I would consider:

G Janus if prooves quality next season

D Korneev, Jalasvaara?, Granak, Kudroc?

F Thoresen, Kucheryavenko, Kontiola, Martensson, maybe Soin as two way F, Sipachyov, maybe Kazionov

just a few guys, maybe I missed someone

 

[Spektanto]

Don't know why, but it reminds me the thing I thought of about a year ago - superseries between Gagarin and Stanley winners (last season - LA Kings vs Dynamo Msk).

As for the rosters, your one seems to be workable, but there can be as many variants as people writing here in the KHL section of the boards.

 

[Spektanto]

Next season schedule gonna be mad

I've read this interview with Kochevrin - the part about the next season schedule, conferences, and international breaks, and agree with him completely: it will be a sort of nightmare next year.

Season starts at first days of September. And we have:
- September 7. Lokomotiv memory day.
- February 6 to 23. Sochi Olympics.
- May 9. Start of WC.
- 4-5 days for the KHL All-Star game
- and some kind of Eurotour (4-nation tournament or maybe 16-teams Euro Championship).

Gagarin Cup finals have to finish at 5-6 of May, if there will be no Eurotour; one or two weeks earlier if it will be.

Kochevrin said the conferences in the future season will be reformed. Medvescak has good chances to join the league; Milano's are noticeable as well; don't forget about Vladivostok. All in all we'll have up to 29 teams. When to play?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Less games, more inter-conference matches and no such ridiculous things like games between for example Milano and Amur would put everything in place. It's just about KHL board's willingness to sacrifice some regular season games and everyone-plays-everyone system to get things right.

 

[vorky]

Season starts at September, 2nd

how do you know? This season started at 4th

 

[Jussi]

I've read this interview with Kochevrin - the part about the next season schedule, conferences, and international breaks, and agree with him completely: it will be a sort of nightmare next year.

Season starts at September, 2nd. And we have:
- September 7. Lokomotiv memory day.
- February 6 to 23. Sochi Olympics.
- May 9. Start of WC.
- 4-5 days for the KHL All-Star game
- and some kind of Eurotour (4-nation tournament or maybe 16-teams Euro Championship).

Gagarin Cup finals have to finish at 5-6 of May, if there will be no Eurotour; one or two weeks earlier if it will be.

Kochevrin said the conferences in the future season will be reformed. Medvescak has good chances to join the league; Milano's are noticeable as well; don't forget about Vladivostok. All in all we'll have up to 29 teams. When to play?

Euro Hockey Tour will still be there next season, the February tournament will obviously be dropped though. Maybe the April one as well? Wouldn't it also be smart to copy the NHL and not have the All-star game during Olympic years?

 

[Spektanto]

how do you know? This season started at 4th

Hah, looked through previous seasons - I thought all them started at the first Monday of September, but it wasn't actually so. My fault

Less games, more inter-conference matches and no such ridiculous things like games between for example Milano and Amur would put everything in place. It's just about KHL board's willingness to sacrifice some regular season games and everyone-plays-everyone system to get things right.

That's what I expect, too. And the alteration of conferences gives hope that more games will be played within.

Euro Hockey Tour will still be there next season, the February tournament will obviously be dropped though. Maybe the April one as well?

I suppose, they'll play the first two tournaments at October-November, and the rest - right before WC and Olympics. Nevertheless, they'll cancel all the EHT rather than just two tournaments.

Wouldn't it also be smart to copy the NHL and not have the All-star game during Olympic years?

Would be, but I think the KHL is not going to even think about it.

 

[Acallabeth]

Because of stupid 15-game suspensions, even Arty got 3 for only taking Jalasvaara out for a couple of weeks