KHL is currently dominated by non-Russian players

[Yakushev72]

That was like 32 years ago. His thinking has clearly changed since then.

What evidence do you have to support your assertion? If he had a team that was 100% NA, and good enough to win the Stanley Cup, what evidence do you have that he would now prefer to have some Europeans in order to incorporate the European "no-hit" style? His comments strictly pertained to fan entertainment. Why do you think that he now concludes that fans would rather watch a gentler and prettier game?

 

[Sokil]

What evidence do you have to support your assertion? If he had a team that was 100% NA, and good enough to win the Stanley Cup, what evidence do you have that he would now prefer to have some Europeans in order to incorporate the European "no-hit" style? His comments strictly pertained to fan entertainment. Why do you think that he now concludes that fans would rather watch a gentler and prettier game?

This is all just baseless conjecture at this point. The proof is in the teams he's managed for the last 3 decades.

Since 2006 he's drafted 5 Russians, 4 Czechs, 2 Slovaks, 3 Swedes, and a Dane. Nobody put a gun to his head.

 

[Sokil]

While his name might sound European, Wayne Gretzky is actually a Canadian.

He's also a finesse player, apparently something you think North Americans hate.

 

[Yakushev72]

This is all just baseless conjecture at this point. The proof is in the teams he's managed for the last 3 decades.

Since 2006 he's drafted 5 Russians, 4 Czechs, 2 Slovaks, 3 Swedes, and a Dane. Nobody put a gun to his head.

You missed the point again! I was merely quoting him regarding his stated preferences for what constitutes entertaining hockey. He believed that NA fans vastly preferred to watch NA players because of their style. The only reason that he drafted or traded for Europeans was because they were better players than the NA's who were available to him, and his job was to put together winning teams. Alex Kovalev never hit anybody in his life, but he was a brilliant offensive player who helped win games!

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Alex Kovalev never hit anybody in his life, but he was a brilliant offensive player who helped win games!

Yet he has the most memorable hit in modern day when it comes to the oldest rivalry in the sport.

 

[Sokil]

You missed the point again! I was merely quoting him regarding his stated preferences for what constitutes entertaining hockey. He believed that NA fans vastly preferred to watch NA players because of their style. The only reason that he drafted or traded for Europeans was because they were better players than the NA's who were available to him, and his job was to put together winning teams. Alex Kovalev never hit anybody in his life, but he was a brilliant offensive player who helped win games!

As most know, anything past the first round is a crap shoot so taking a Russian or other European because they were better is not a valid reason, they just had a better gut feeling on whichever kid. The thing is, you can't be against Euro hockey and have a feeling a kid will be good, they wash each other out.

Brian Burke literally hates Europeans and their game, and his mandate was always to trade away all Euros from the team for no apparent reason (like trading Kubina for Exelby), and in drafting only selected 3 Swedes in the late rounds his entire tenure. With Anaheim, his first moves were to gut out Fedorov, Sykora, Bryzgalov, etc. This is a GM with a clear history and proof behind his philosophy.

Sather on the other hand, brought in plenty of European players and continues to draft them. He has no problem with Europeans.

 

[Jussi]

Wrong quote, I was tired, move along.

 

[Yakushev72]

Okay, that kind of response would mean that you're a mindreader which sets this whole discussion into the "pretty effed up territory". At least do everyone a favor and not put words/thoughts into another persons mouth/mind just because of something he said 32 years ago and from a completely different perspective. Seriously dude, you're gonna lose ever argument if you do that.

Seriously dude, I don't even consider this an argument! I respect your arguments about Finnish hockey, because you seem to have a lot of grasp on local hockey matters. But once you get past your borders, you're just another opinionated guy who doesn't really have a good feel for what you are talking about. If an NA hockey GM can't have a preference for the NA style of play, and, at the same time, draft a European if that is the best available choice in his mind, then he wouldn't be able to walk and chew gum at the same time either.

 

[Jussi]

Seriously dude, I don't even consider this an argument! I respect your arguments about Finnish hockey, because you seem to have a lot of grasp on local hockey matters. But once you get past your borders, you're just another opinionated guy who doesn't really have a good feel for what you are talking about. If an NA hockey GM can't have a preference for the NA style of play, and, at the same time, draft a European if that is the best available choice in his mind, then he wouldn't be able to walk and chew gum at the same time either.

Apologies, it was 5:19 am here, I completely misread/-understood it.

 

[metmag]

I see Yakushev72's point. I think in todays' game even if Don Cherry was GM he would not be able to avoid a few European players on the roster.

At the same time there are many Russian CHL graduates so it is difficult to determine which style to categorize players in, in terms of NA or European(or more specific) styles. More so to generalize traits by nationality.

From my experience, the overwhelming amount of time that I hear comment pertaining to 'soft, lazy Russians' it is usually from local fans who watch a rather small amount of games and would not be able to discern tactics and strategies, much less individual styles of players. It seems to me more of an expression of dissatisfaction to a person who's nationality is already not as 'favourable' as a local Canadian boy for example.

 

[Yakushev72]

Apologies, it was 5:19 am here, I completely misread/-understood it.

Thanks for acknowledging it. I do it all the time myself, and have offered many apologies later.

 

[Yakushev72]

I see Yakushev72's point. I think in todays' game even if Don Cherry was GM he would not be able to avoid a few European players on the roster.

At the same time there are many Russian CHL graduates so it is difficult to determine which style to categorize players in, in terms of NA or European(or more specific) styles. More so to generalize traits by nationality.

From my experience, the overwhelming amount of time that I hear comment pertaining to 'soft, lazy Russians' it is usually from local fans who watch a rather small amount of games and would not be able to discern tactics and strategies, much less individual styles of players. It seems to me more of an expression of dissatisfaction to a person who's nationality is already not as 'favourable' as a local Canadian boy for example.

It would be overly restrictive to try to form a Stanley Cup-contending team from NA players alone. There are plenty of great NA players, but the problem is trying to assemble a winning roster through the draft and trades without adding European players. There are too many great European players around these days, and if you don't acquire them someone else will, to your detriment.

 

[brec7]

I wonder if the inability of Russians to dominate the KHL will affect the selection of the Olympic team? Last time there was a healthy KHL contingent and the team underachieved. Poor league performance would be reason to take less of them, but the tournament is also on big ice. Will be interesting to see.

 

[obskyr]

I wonder if the inability of Russians to dominate the KHL will affect the selection of the Olympic team? Last time there was a healthy KHL contingent and the team underachieved. Poor league performance would be reason to take less of them, but the tournament is also on big ice. Will be interesting to see.

Yes, Kovalchuk and Radulov are going to lose their spots to Yakupov and Loktionov. ( sarcasm)

 

[brec7]

Yes, my post was clearly an attempt to say that those two particular players won't make the Olympic team.

 

[Atas2000]

I wonder if the inability of Russians to dominate the KHL will affect the selection of the Olympic team? Last time there was a healthy KHL contingent and the team underachieved. Poor league performance would be reason to take less of them, but the tournament is also on big ice. Will be interesting to see.

Just stop believing ppl of HF boards blind. Nearly every russian player you'd expect in the scoring top 30 in the KHL has been a lot or is on LTIR(Radulov, Kovalchuk, Morozov, Kuznetsov, Pestushko(if we go by this season), Popov is on PPG pace on a team that is falling apart). Same with D-men.

The only two russian stars healthy seem to be Zaripov and Mozyakin. Let me see... Oh, they are leading the league.

Some ppl obviously are trying to prove their wishful thinking, by ignoring the facts.

 

[obskyr]

Yes, my post was clearly an attempt to say that those two particular players won't make the Olympic team.

Then who exactly did you imply? Russian top 6 is just as determined as it was 4 years ago. Goalies are even less of a question. The rest is spots reserved for two-way/defensive forwards and defensemen, who aren't really fancy stats types of players to be discussed in this thread. Except for the ODs, ofc. And who are the decent Russian offensive defs we got in the NHL since 2010? Voynov. He's in the roster by default

 

[coyotechrisz]

this article sounds interesting... unfortunately translation porgramms doesnt make a lot of sense here :/

http://allhockey.ru/articles/164750/

could anyone give some cliffs please?

 

[Sokil]

I see Yakushev72's point. I think in todays' game even if Don Cherry was GM he would not be able to avoid a few European players on the roster.

He tried this when he owned/gm'd the Mississauga Icedogs OHL team. There was a reason they were the worst team in the league.

Cherry was the part-owner and the former coach of the Ontario Hockey League's Mississauga IceDogs. As owner and general manager, he gained notoriety by refusing to take part in the CHL import draft, and only play North American born players. The IceDogs' first three seasons were difficult ones with the team winning a total of 16 games combined.

 

[brec7]

Then who exactly did you imply? Russian top 6 is just as determined as it was 4 years ago. Goalies are even less of a question. The rest is spots reserved for two-way/defensive forwards and defensemen, who aren't really fancy stats types of players to be discussed in this thread. Except for the ODs, ofc. And who are the decent Russian offensive defs we got in the NHL since 2010? Voynov. He's in the roster by default

Well, last time there were 8 KHL guys on the roster I believe. It obviously goes up one with Kovalchuk, but a guy like Morozov is four years older and closer to the end of his career. I'm not in Russia and don't follow the KHL super closely but try to learn more about the league by watching some highlights and reading what people here say here. If they're not dominating their own league domestically it would be logical to think some guys might lose their spots but Atas's post above would indicate that may not be the case. Regarding what a bottom 6 would like, in case of a team like Canada those are usually guys who are still putting up great numbers but are asked to play more of a defensive role, I could Russia putting together a team in a similar fashion.

 

[obskyr]

Well, last time there were 8 KHL guys on the roster I believe. It obviously goes up one with Kovalchuk, but a guy like Morozov is four years older and closer to the end of his career. I'm not in Russia and don't follow the KHL super closely but try to learn more about the league by watching some highlights and reading what people here say here. If they're not dominating their own league domestically it would be logical to think some guys might lose their spots but Atas's post above would indicate that may not be the case. Regarding what a bottom 6 would like, in case of a team like Canada those are usually guys who are still putting up great numbers but are asked to play more of a defensive role, I could Russia putting together a team in a similar fashion.

That's the thing with Bilyaletdinov, he's a very defensive minded coach. You will be more likely to see a hard-working grinder like Kokorin in his roster, than a KHL goal scoring primadonna like Mozyakin or a hot headed youngster like Yakupov. One could argue that his methods are outdated, inappropriate for the international level and even disgraceful to Russian hockey as a whole, but, at this point, it can't be helped.

 

[brec7]

Given the immense pressure for Russia to win he'll feel a heavy wrath if they flop I'd say! But the joke is on everyone else if the win gold, perhaps.

 

[Latgale_fan]

Well, last time the Olympics were on small ice and now we have Medvescak in KHL that proves by its stats on big vs small ice how really significant that is.

So I'd say with Vancouver there were a lot of problems for Russia but also one of which was that KHL reinforcements weren't that effective on small ice, meaning players like Zaripov, Zinovyev and others who are utter tools when it comes to physical game... But I don't see why they wouldn't be good in Sochi on IIHF ice, especially with the way they're playing this year (Zaripov, Morozov, Mozyakin)...

 

[Atas2000]

That's the thing with Bilyaletdinov, he's a very defensive minded coach.

Myths again. He expects resposible defensive play. Is that uncommon?

You will be more likely to see a hard-working grinder like Kokorin in his roster, than a KHL goal scoring primadonna like Mozyakin

Free your mind from nogomyach. It's poisoning you!

One could argue that his methods are outdated, inappropriate for the international level and even disgraceful to Russian hockey as a whole, but, at this point, it can't be helped.

One could argue some ppl should give their hate a rest and give Bill's system a look. His system is as modern as it gets. He also works with the assets he has, not trying to let players do things they can't do by design. His "inappropriate on international level"(wtf is that? if it works, it works, if it doesn't, it won't on any level) style won him a WC with half the guys he'll have in the Olympics.

The BS about "disgraceful to russian hockey" is as childish as it gets. You also probably have no idea of the systems Tarasov, Chernyshov or Tikhonov played. You'd be surprised about how "defensive minded" and "outdated" they were.

Yes, it can't be helped. Ppl on hockey boards will always be smarter than the NT coach

 

[Coramoor]

World championships isn't a great metric because the Canadian team is always incredibly diluted but I don't get the hate for a coach who holds his team to actually playing defense