KHL in the Champions Hockey League

[vorky]

@Jablkon

The KHL is Euroasian league right now. Or do you claim Helsinki, Bratislava, Riga or Minsk are not in Europe?

The KHL has not given up anything. There is just a pause because of external and internal reasons. I mean international politics, changing of the KHL leadership, reforming the KHL. The true is that the KHL is not interested in every European club.

 

[scud9]

There is more reasons for it.

The most important is schedulling. The KHL has similar schedule as the NHL, playing every day, travelling a lot. The CHL plays their games during IIHF breaks when SWE, FIN, RUS, CZ NTs play their tournament. So, if SKA played the CHL, half of a team could not play the CHL, because they are in NT. The KHL has said many times that they are ready to play one or two games with CHL champion, some series between CHL/KHL champions. But the CHL has refused such an idea all the time. Who is to blame?

Another aspect is financing. CHL clubs are in red numbers, why should the KHL support such a tournament? If there is no hope for a profit? You to know, CHL prize money is 1,5 million EURO and they plan to have 3 million EURO in 2022 or something like that.

Nobody cares about Euro hockey in Russia. CHL has very low attendance, but if SKA comes to some Euro CHL city, it would be sold out. So only a benefit for the CHL, not for the KHL.

CHL is de facto run by Swedes who (I mean their federation) are the biggest KHL haters. So, the KHL should support the CHL product, but Swedes (& other Euro federations) will do everything possible to stop KHL´s expansion to Europe? That are benefits for both sides? I do not think so.


I think these are the most important reasons for the KHL not being part of the CHL. And it wont change in near future. On the other hand, it seems the KHL will invite Euro clubs to the KHL preseason tournaments since next summer. This year HC Davos was invited to Astana´s tournament. If there is no interest from European federations or the CHL, the KHL can invite some Euro teams... case by case, it is more effective to negotiate with one club than one organisation (more interests from various sides).

Actually in FEL there is 60 games per team as in Russia 56 games. Travelling in Russia is a b***h. And when the leagues have started CHL is played on tuesday. International tournaments are played thursday-sunday and only two are played during the seasons. So your arguments are not valid. It is true that KHL have everything to lose if they join in.

 

[Jussi]

Another aspect is financing. CHL clubs are in red numbers, why should the KHL support such a tournament? If there is no hope for a profit? You to know, CHL prize money is 1,5 million EURO and they plan to have 3 million EURO in 2022 or something like that.

Citation needed.

Prize money was increased to 3,7 million euros for this season, as has been stated several times already.

 

[vorky]

Actually in FEL there is 60 games per team as in Russia 56 games. Travelling in Russia is a b***h. And when the leagues have started CHL is played on tuesday. International tournaments are played thursday-sunday and only two are played during the seasons. So your arguments are not valid. It is true that KHL have everything to lose if they join in.

KHL season starts in August, CHL starts at the same time. Yes, EHT are played thursday-sunday, but NTs mini-camps starts on Monday. No room for pariticipating in the CHL from KHL´s point of view. So I do not know what is wrong with my arguments. The most important question is why the CHL has refused to play a game or two between CHL/KHL champions? The schedulling can not be a problem.

 

[Rigafan]

The most important question is why the CHL has refused to play a game or two between CHL/KHL champions? The schedulling can not be a problem.

Ego? CHL wants to be THE European league - when the KHL already is and is much, much better at it too.

 

[Jussi]

Ego? CHL wants to be THE European league - when the KHL already is and is much, much better at it too.

CHL wants to be a tournament. It will never be a league (even though some Swedes might hope it could be but it's not going to be happen. There will never be a pan-European hockey league because neither the interest nor the moeny is there.

 

[Jablkon]

@Jablkon

The KHL is Euroasian league right now. Or do you claim Helsinki, Bratislava, Riga or Minsk are not in Europe?

The KHL has not given up anything. There is just a pause because of external and internal reasons. I mean international politics, changing of the KHL leadership, reforming the KHL. The true is that the KHL is not interested in every European club.

And what is this answer? Some diplomatic talk? You really believe in what you responded? The way how it looks for foreigner is that you will have to stabilize teams and league as it is now and you dont have resources for expansion. So as there are not so many european bussinesmen willing to invest such amount of money to KHL club. Maybe in Germany.BUt even if you manage to attract club from every top euro hockey country, there still will be demand for euro competition including KHL teams. I guess any finnish club would say that they are more than ready and happy to challenge Jokerit on any venue.

Its not like in North America where second best league is farm league with teams under NHL franchises. This system is immpossible in Europe. Any euro league even without one team is not farm league. I understand that euro teams can have financial and schedule issue with travelling to Russia and KHL teams cna have schedule issue with CHL, and for sure there can be quality gap. But if they sort out these issues one day, there will remain only KHL to blame just because it insists on unrealistic ideas.

 

[Jablkon]

Ego? CHL wants to be THE European league - when the KHL already is and is much, much better at it too.

Better i what way? I dont see any czech, swedish, finnish,swiss team etc. in this league? Ou, hold on I used to see czech team and we all know what happen. Once CKD realized it does not help to their bussines in Russia and Gazprom closed money delivery, it all finished. CHL should be a tourney, but how can you say that KHL is better in being euro league?

I agree that ego played role there, but this is irrelevant to the fact, taht you guys built paralel reality around KHL. Dreams and targets are one thing, but their fullfilment in reality is the second thing which counts. Your league is truly second best league in the world. But these ideas around expansion just dont follow reality by any means.

 

[Rigafan]

Better i what way? I dont see any czech, swedish, finnish,swiss team etc. in this league? Ou, hold on I used to see czech team and we all know what happen. Once CKD realized it does not help to their bussines in Russia and Gazprom closed money delivery, it all finished. CHL should be a tourney, but how can you say that KHL is better in being euro league?

I agree that ego played role there, but this is irrelevant to the fact, taht you guys built paralel reality around KHL. Dreams and targets are one thing, but their fullfilment in reality is the second thing which counts. Your league is truly second best league in the world. But these ideas around expansion just dont follow reality by any means.

Personally, I'd be more than happy with a Russian KHL and the usual traditional teams like Riga, Minsk ect. I don't really wish to see Milan or Paris or any of these 'fake' teams. Look at what happened with Lev Proprad - that's not good for anybody.

You said it yourself, the only place with the right amount of money is the KHL - if you are talking about having a pan european league. No other country could pull that off - thats why I say the KHL is doing it better.

I enjoy the CHL as being a tournament but I envision a time when they start wanting more. They may look to soccer champions league or basketball Euroleague and think "we can do this with hockey!" but we know, right now, without the Russian money, it won't work

 

[vorky]

CHL CEO said that prize money will be around 1,5 million EUR in 2017/18, so the same money as last season. There is something wrong with Jussi´s math.

 

[Jussi]

Personally, I'd be more than happy with a Russian KHL and the usual traditional teams like Riga, Minsk ect. I don't really wish to see Milan or Paris or any of these 'fake' teams. Look at what happened with Lev Proprad - that's not good for anybody.

You said it yourself, the only place with the right amount of money is the KHL - if you are talking about having a pan european league. No other country could pull that off - thats why I say the KHL is doing it better.

I enjoy the CHL as being a tournament but I envision a time when they start wanting more. They may look to soccer champions league or basketball Euroleague and think "we can do this with hockey!" but we know, right now, without the Russian money, it won't work

Right now, their focus is on becoming more profitable for teams (which it already is for the succesful teams). The European clubs value the bottom line more than Russian KHL clubs and want to be involved in something where they don't have to operate in the red all the time.

 

[Jussi]

CHL CEO said that prize money will be around 1,5 million EUR in 2017/18, so the same money as last season. There is something wrong with Jussi´s math.

Source? Because last year he said the following:

https://www.mtv.fi/sport/jaakiekko/...ummia-mallia-jalkapallosta/6069920#gs._v7_7_Y

– Teimme uuden sopimuksen, joka kattaa tulevat kuusi vuotta. Sen myötä palkintorahat kasvavat. Nyt palkintosummat ovat yhteensä 1,5 miljoonaa euroa, mutta ensi vuodesta lähtien tuo summa on 3,7 miljoonaa. Se on iso parannus, Baumann avaa MTV Sportille.

"We just signed a new contract which will cover 6 years. With it, the prize money will increase. Now the total price money is 1,5 million euros, but beginning next year, that amount will be 3,7 million. That is a huge improvement, says Baumann to MTV Sport."

 

[vorky]

What a great logic - wanting every European club to be as poor as possible.

The source for CHL prize money. CHL CEO had a presser in Czech rep yesterday.

V nadcházejícím ročníku se mezi účastníky rozdělí celkem 1,54 milionu eur a nový šampion dosáhne na 300 tisíc eur. Postupně budou odměny vzrůstat, až se na konci současného kontraktu v sezoně 2022/23 vyšplhají na 3,46 milionu eur celkově a na 720 tisíc eur pro vítěze.

Translation: CHL prize money are 1,54 million EUR in upcoming season, new champion will get 300 000. We will increase a prize money according to our new deal, we will have a prize money of 3,46 million EUR in 2022/23, champion will get 720 000.

As I have said many times, CHL wants to double prize money by 2022. I guess prize money for champion includes all season, not only for winning the title. Frolunda got 143 000, including prize money for winning the title, in 2016/17. Majority of teams got 20 000 which did not cover costs.

 

[Jussi]

As I've mentioned/posted many times, last year he said to Finnish media that the prize moeny would increase this year already. That statement he made in Czech Rep. is a contradiction of last year's statement. I've also said that the longer you make it in the torunament, the more money you will make. If you're not successfull, you're not making money. That is a principal European clubs understand.

 

[QnebO]

CHL wants to be a tournament. It will never be a league (even though some Swedes might hope it could be but it's not going to be happen. There will never be a pan-European hockey league because neither the interest nor the moeny is there.

KHL could do it but currently I'm not sure if it's well enough led League to do it. But it's going to right direction, stop overpaying ect.

I think there is / would be interest for pan-european league, even if it's the "current CHL" that would do it. But for interest to be there every team needs to stop playing any national series, and play ONLY the european one. There can be only one serious league per team, that's the true limiting factor. There is interest, but there is no interest for two "equal" league. There can be only one most important league per team.

Currently it is used as pre-season practice, and it feels as plastic as it can be. Like it would be something big, but in reality they're using it as pre season for national leagues thing mainly and trying to make something out of that, plus playing couple games in winter that are already by spoiled by the fact that National League is the #1 thing and that the group stage was played where otherwise would be normal pre season games.

 

[Jussi]

KHL could do it but currently I'm not sure if it's well enough led League to do it. But it's going to right direction, stop overpaying ect.

I think there is / would be interest for pan-european league, even if it's the "current CHL" that would do it. But it needs to every team stop playing any national series, and play ONLY the european one. There can be only one serious league per team, that's the true limiting factor. There is interest, but there is no interest for two "equal" league. There can be only one most important league per team.

That won't happen either, the Swedes don't want to leave their domestic league as the rivalries mean too much for them. Plus the new tv conract which guarantees each team almost 5 million euros per season.

 

[CPFC]

As I have said many times, CHL wants to double prize money by 2022. I guess prize money for champion includes all season, not only for winning the title. Frolunda got 143 000, including prize money for winning the title, in 2016/17. Majority of teams got 20 000 which did not cover costs.

They need to increase their revenue if they want to give out more money and that probably requires a better TV deal and more corporate support.

I don't see it happening, the attendance numbers are mostly terrible and so are the ratings I guess. I don't even know which channel shows CHL in Finland, no adverts for it anywhere. No-one is going to get a TV package just to see CHL.

 

[Jussi]

They need to increase their revenue if they want to give out more money and that probably requires a better TV deal and more corporate support.

I don't see it happening, the attendance numbers are mostly terrible and so are the ratings I guess. I don't even know which channel shows CHL in Finland, no adverts for it anywhere. No-one is going to get a TV package just to see CHL.

MTV Sport, which explains why it's poorly marketed. They ruin just about every sport they have. Though they will have UCL exclusively for Finland starting next year so it'll be easier to sell the CHL packaged with that

 

[CPFC]

MTV Sport, which explains why it's poorly marketed. They ruin just about every sport they have. Though they will have UCL exclusively for Finland starting next year so it'll be easier to sell the CHL packaged with that

Yeah, MTV Sports is hot garbage. Maybe Yle should bid for the CHL rights, they cannot be that expensive and it would give great exposure to CHL, which is something they desperately need at this point. I also noticed that in Sweden SVT has the rights for CHL.

 

[bordshockeypampen]

I found an article about the price money from the new participant Brynäs:
http://www.brynas.se/artikel/jeo5aj4tj-1ekad/stora-prispengar-i-potten-nar-brynas-spelar-i-chl

The CHL prizes are divided so that every time a team progresses in the league, ie from group play to 16th finals, from 16th to final to quarter final, from quarter to final to semi final and semi final to final, the team earns prize money. The team that is the champion after the 17/18 finale game wins a total of 300 000 Euro (about 3 million SEK).

There is already a clear economic picture for how CHL's prize money will grow in the coming seasons, 18/19 the prize money is estimated to be about 3.6 million, in the 19/20 season the champion will get about 4.3 million, and for the 22/23 season the price money has risen to about 7.2 million SEK. Each year, the CHL Board will confirm the exact figure before the start of the season.

So, if Frölunda got 143 000 Euro the last season, the price money has doubled for this season when the winner will get 300 000.

 

[vorky]

I found an article about the price money from the new participant Brynäs:
http://www.brynas.se/artikel/jeo5aj4tj-1ekad/stora-prispengar-i-potten-nar-brynas-spelar-i-chl



So, if Frölunda got 143 000 Euro the last season, the price money has doubled for this season when the winner will get 300 000.

Ad 3.6 million & 4.3 million - is it in SEK?

No, it will not double for 17/18. There is less teams now (48 vs 32), which will free around 320 000 EUR (participating prize money was 20 000 EUR). That "extra" money will be redistributed to 32 teams, who will get a bit more money than last season, but total prize money will stay at 1,5 million EUR.

 

[bordshockeypampen]

Ad 3.6 million & 4.3 million - is it in SEK?

Yes.

 

[Mayuu]

Ad 3.6 million & 4.3 million - is it in SEK?

No, it will not double for 17/18. There is less teams now (48 vs 32), which will free around 320 000 EUR (participating prize money was 20 000 EUR). That "extra" money will be redistributed to 32 teams, who will get a bit more money than last season, but total prize money will stay at 1,5 million EUR.

According to aftonbladet that cites Bo Lennartson the upcoming prize pools is as follows

2018: 15 miljoner totalt, 3 miljoner till vinnaren
2019: 17 miljoner totalt, 3,5 miljoner till vinnaren
2022: 33 miljoner totalt, 7 miljoner kronor till vinnaren


2018: 15 million in total, 3 million to the winner
2019: 17 million in total, 3.5 million to the winner
2022: 33 million in total, 7 million kronor to the winner

this is in sek

 

[QnebO]

Amount of teams is dropped to 32 this year, and winners price is bit over double the last year.

Winners price evolution season by season for next years in €uro (I always get confused with SEK so I think we need this too):
2017-18: 300 000
2018-19: 365 000
2019-20: 430 000
2020-21: 575 000
2021-22: 645 000
2022-23:720 000

Those prizes in end of table are worth trying for most Liiga teams. Typical player budget is 1,5-2M I think. For KalPa that 300 is something already this year.

https://www.mtv.fi/sport/jaakiekko/...-kasvavat-rajahdysmaisesti/6540640#gs.FBfG2kc

 

[hansomreiste]

I haven't been following the discussion closely so sorry if already mentioned but how is CHL planning to increase the revenue in years to come? I mean, we're talking about an increase of over %100 in five years. Do they have concrete plans in place to make it work or are these numbers just what they'd like to achieve?