KHL Expansion Part VIII

[Section Netherlands]

Swedes care infinitely more about their own teams. There's been numerous polls to verify that. They're not going to travel to Germany to watch KHL teams. NHL teams they might.

I am not saying that these KHL games would be the reason people would go to Germany. I am saying that people already go to these cities, and I see it as likely that a KHL game with top teams would be of interest for many already going there, which is a lot. I am quite aware of Swedes interests in hockey, being one myself. Whether or not people from Czechia and other countries could have the same interest is pure speculation.

 

[Section Netherlands]

Why would people with interest in hockey go to Berlin or Hamburg to watch hockey when they can literally catch the ferry or flight to either Helsinki or Riga to watch the same quality of hockey in a shorter distance. People going to Germany for a weekend are more likely to watch Bundesliga, or if people are hockey interested might watch DEL. Having a KHL team in Germany would not really increase the interest.

See my post above. Helsinki and Riga is very different cities than Berlin and Hamburg, at least in the majority of Swedes eyes. People are already going to Manchester, Barcelona, etc while watching football and doing other stuff in the cities. As Berlin and Hamburg are already popular destinations I can see a lot of people including a KHL game while being there.

Also my post discusses World Games in Germany, not a permanent KHL team.

Teams that would attract attention of Sweden would be something like CSKA, SKA, Dynamo Moscow, Jokerit, Lokomotiv + any team with a number of well known Swedes.

 

[mkev400]

I am not saying that these KHL games would be the reason people would go to Germany. I am saying that people already go to these cities, and I see it as likely that a KHL game with top teams would be of interest for many already going there, which is a lot. I am quite aware of Swedes interests in hockey, being one myself. Whether or not people from Czechia and other countries could have the same interest is pure speculation.

There is certainly an argument that a (very) small number would decide to take in a game if they were already in the city. But I think most people that take a city trip to a city like Berlin, would rather do as much sightseeing as possible, than go out of their way to get to an Arena and watch a Hockey game. Speaking from personal experience, when I visited Riga a few years back, I did not take the opportunity of going to a Dinamo Riga game because I was there to see the city and there were too many sights to see instead.
For the vast majority of people, fitting in a hockey game will mean that everything will be scheduled around the game, i.e. a specific visit for the game and any sightseeing will be done to kill time. In all likelihood you are a diehard fan of a team thats playing in the Novelty showcase, or this isn't your first visit to the city and you know you'll have plenty of time to spare.

Also, I am of the opinion that drawing comparisons to football isnt really a great measure. Football teams that attract the "Premier League Tourism" (i.e. hopping over to Manchester take in a game and go home; its a big enough industry in Ireland) are huge global brands and have bucket list status for many ManU, Liverpool and Barca fans in Sweden, Austria, Finland, Ireland etc...
The same cant be said about spending a weekend in Berlin, Vienna, Zurich to see two teams that you you likely know little about, unless its SKA, CSKA or maybe Jokerit, from a league that isn't worlds better than your own national league. There just isnt much of an allure there. Much like I doubt that the World Games in Zurich and Vienna attracted large crowds traveling down from Germany or France. Vienna would have attracted a lot of Slovakian fans, but those would have been Slovan Bratislava fans anyways. If you want to attract Swedish people to a KHL World Game, I think the only way of doing it is to hold it in Sweden.

 

[Jussi]

See my post above. Helsinki and Riga is very different cities than Berlin and Hamburg, at least in the majority of Swedes eyes. People are already going to Manchester, Barcelona, etc while watching football and doing other stuff in the cities. As Berlin and Hamburg are already popular destinations I can see a lot of people including a KHL game while being there.

Also my post discusses World Games in Germany, not a permanent KHL team.

Teams that would attract attention of Sweden would be something like CSKA, SKA, Dynamo Moscow, Jokerit, Lokomotiv + any team with a number of well known Swedes.

One of these things is not like the other.

 

[Section Netherlands]

There is certainly an argument that a (very) small number would decide to take in a game if they were already in the city. But I think most people that take a city trip to a city like Berlin, would rather do as much sightseeing as possible, than go out of their way to get to an Arena and watch a Hockey game. Speaking from personal experience, when I visited Riga a few years back, I did not take the opportunity of going to a Dinamo Riga game because I was there to see the city and there were too many sights to see instead.
For the vast majority of people, fitting in a hockey game will mean that everything will be scheduled around the game, i.e. a specific visit for the game and any sightseeing will be done to kill time. In all likelihood you are a diehard fan of a team thats playing in the Novelty showcase, or this isn't your first visit to the city and you know you'll have plenty of time to spare.

Also, I am of the opinion that drawing comparisons to football isnt really a great measure. Football teams that attract the "Premier League Tourism" (i.e. hopping over to Manchester take in a game and go home; its a big enough industry in Ireland) are huge global brands and have bucket list status for many ManU, Liverpool and Barca fans in Sweden, Austria, Finland, Ireland etc...
The same cant be said about spending a weekend in Berlin, Vienna, Zurich to see two teams that you you likely know little about, unless its SKA, CSKA or maybe Jokerit, from a league that isn't worlds better than your own national league. There just isnt much of an allure there. Much like I doubt that the World Games in Zurich and Vienna attracted large crowds traveling down from Germany or France. Vienna would have attracted a lot of Slovakian fans, but those would have been Slovan Bratislava fans anyways. If you want to attract Swedish people to a KHL World Game, I think the only way of doing it is to hold it in Sweden.

Thank you for actually responding to my suggestions(instead of shooting it down with no arguments at all, or completely ignoring what I said in the first place, like most people here). The way I see it is that Berlin is already drawing lots of tourism from Sweden and is seen as a way more "sexy" destination than Riga or Helsinki. It is not uncommon for the wealthier part of the population to go to New York to see hockey. A KHL World Game in Berlin, I imagine, would be essentially a budget version of going across the see to see the Rangers. Cheaper, available to more people and so on. If marketing would be done right, I see potential.

I don't think there is more to discuss to this suggestion. Have a nice day everyone.

 

[Prntscrn]

If you want to attract Swedish people to a KHL World Game, I think the only way of doing it is to hold it in Sweden.

That will never work. Don't underestimate Swedes hate for Russia. And even if that wouldn't be a problem the level of hockey just isn't that much better.

 

[alko]

Where do you expect to find an owner who wants to throw away money when they can be in a league with less quality, but at least not losing tens of millions of euro every single season?

There was an interview with the owner of Bratislava Capitals. I know, it is not KHL. And he said, that the main purpose why he wants to join EBEL (or what is the name of this league now) is to attract people from Austria to his new eye Clinic. And because it is very expensive with classic advertisement, he will do it via ice-hockey team.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

There was an interview with the owner of Bratislava Capitals. I know, it is not KHL. And he said, that the main purpose why he wants to join EBEL (or what is the name of this league now) is to attract people from Austria to his new eye Clinic. And because it is very expensive with classic advertisement, he will do it via ice-hockey team.

So you see the owner of a team trying to advertise his business, which certainly isn't more than a few thousand euro, and immediately think "he's willing to spend a little bit of money advertising, he is probably good for KHL expansion into Slovakia..."

There is a neurological problem here. I have no idea how or why you're going from an owner trying to advertise his team/business as "him having potential to want the KHL." I definitely have no idea how you're going from an owner trying to advertise his team/business for the purpose of attracting customers less than an hour away in Austria as "he will eventually do it for Russians."

 

[alko]

which certainly isn't more than a few thousand euro

It is certainly few millions €.

 

[Albatros]

Allegedly the whole EBEL sponsoring is worth 60 million of which half came from Erste Bank.

 

[vorky]

Former GM Maroš Krajči from Slovan's KHL days has been rehired by Slovan's new owner:

https://sport.sme.sk/c/22448675/hokej-maros-krajci-chce-slovanu-vratit-lesk.html

He last worked for Slovan in April 2017, before things started collapsing all around for Slovan.

When now asked about Slovan's possible return to the KHL, he merely commented that he enjoyed the seasons when Slovan was playing in the KHL.

So, let's keep our fingers crossed. Slovan has meanwhile submitted paperwork to play in the Slovak league in the 2020/21 season, but it's obvious that if there's a return for Slovan to the KHL, the earliest point would be the 2021/22 season.

As to the business side of it: I heard that the Russian antivirus maker Kaspersky Labs were in trouble recently, so perhaps it might be interesting for ESET/Nod to try and increase their share on the huge Russian market. Not to mention the gigantic Chinese market (the Kunlun Red Stars connection).

I believe that this news deserves to be posted in the KHL Board as well.

Regarding the KHL application process. A club wishing to join the KHL is obligated to submit an official application until March 1st. See more here (page 161 in English)

 

[vorky]

Just wanted to ask @Faterson if you read the interview with Krajči for Denník Šport? And what you say?

 

[Faterson]

It sounds promising. I've been saying for years, on HFBoards, that the ideal model would be for Slovan to play in the KHL, and for its B/farm team to play in the Slovak league – but it should also be located in Bratislava, because it's absurd if no team from the capital plays in the Slovak league. From the interview, it seems that Krajči favors this model.

The link, for anyone who would like to/can read it:

https://sport.aktuality.sk/c/453257/staronovy-generalny-manazer-maros-krajci-buduje-novy-slovan-najprv-slovaci-potom-legionari

 

[vorky]

It sounds promising. I've been saying for years, on HFBoards, that the ideal model would be for Slovan to play in the KHL, and for its B/farm team to play in the Slovak league – but it should also be located in Bratislava, because it's absurd if no team from the capital plays in the Slovak league. From the interview, it seems that Krajči favors this model.

The link, for anyone who would like to/can read it:

https://sport.aktuality.sk/c/453257/staronovy-generalny-manazer-maros-krajci-buduje-novy-slovan-najprv-slovaci-potom-legionari

Thank you for your insight.

He said another interesting thing when asked what he did after leaving Slovan. Of course, he missed hockey, and "I sometimes helped the KHL clubs." Do we know something more about it? What did he exactly do? It sounds like he has never lost connections to the KHL even though he was not active in the KHL club (Slovan) anymore. Interesting.

 

[alko]

Regarding Slovan: What must be done, if they want to come back? And will KHL do that?

 

[vorky]

Regarding Slovan: What must be done, if they want to come back? And will KHL do that?

Generally, a club must submit an application. The KHL requests the official letter from the (Slovak) hockey federation that the club can join the KHL. You need money, at least 10 mil euro. Slovan would need to adjust their arena, rink size & other staff.

Of course, Slovan is in a bad position due to their reputation. I read an interview with Krajči, where he revealed that the KHL tried to keep Slovan until the last minute. So, perhaps the KHL would not be against the idea. But Slovan would need to guarantee a budget for 3 seasons as least. The KHL is not interested in financially weak clubs.

Krajči might be a connection between Hrubý & KHL.

 

[Rigafan]

Generally, a club must submit an application. The KHL requests the official letter from the (Slovak) hockey federation that the club can join the KHL. You need money, at least 10 mil euro. Slovan would need to adjust their arena, rink size & other staff.

Of course, Slovan is in a bad position due to their reputation. I read an interview with Krajči, where he revealed that the KHL tried to keep Slovan until the last minute. So, perhaps the KHL would not be against the idea. But Slovan would need to guarantee a budget for 3 seasons as least. The KHL is not interested in financially weak clubs.

Krajči might be a connection between Hrubý & KHL.

I would assume letting a failed team re-enter the league would come with some extra securities? Maybe? It's bad enough all the wolves waiting for the next team to fail but imagine if - Slovan as an example - re entered and then failed again!

 

[vorky]

I would assume letting a failed team re-enter the league would come with some extra securities? Maybe? It's bad enough all the wolves waiting for the next team to fail but imagine if - Slovan as an example - re entered and then failed again!

Of course, the KHL would be more strict on Slovan than anybody else. The KHL is interested in financially strong clubs, which guarantee at least three seasons in the league. Btw, the KHL has experience with a return (Spartak, Lokomotiv), nothing bad with it.

And, there is a possibility that some clubs will leave the competition, it is stipulated in the league´s strategy as one possible scenario. The league is prepared for it.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Regarding Slovan: What must be done, if they want to come back? And will KHL do that?

1: Show you have funding and a disbursement plan for at least €10mm

2: A trademarked(or licensed) team name

3: A building(or lease agreement) for the required number of dates.

4: A youth program(can be sub-contracted.)

That’s about it.

 

[Faterson]

1: Show you have funding and a disbursement plan for at least €10mm

2: A trademarked(or licensed) team name

3: A building(or lease agreement) for the required number of dates.

4: A youth program(can be sub-contracted.)

That’s about it.

#2 and #4 are resolved for Slovan. Regarding #3, it was in the news today that Slovan's new owner Hrubý met with the mayor of Bratislava in order to discuss paying the debt for the arena left by the previous Slovan ownership, reported to be €600,000 this time around, I think. They said it was a good meeting, so in all likelihood, all debts will be paid and the arena will be available for Slovan in future seasons. And unlike with the previous owner, Široký the oligarch, I don't think the new owners will permit Slovan to accrue new debts.

The biggest stumbling block would be #1, of course, but if the oligarch managed to do it for 7 seasons, so should the new owner, reported to be six times wealthier (and having earned that wealth in upright software business).

Naturally, there is no clue as to whether the new owner is interested in the KHL at all. But, given that his first step was to rehire Krejči, Slovan's general manager from its KHL seasons up until 2017, it at least seems to be a possibility. We can only hope so.

I'm just happy it wasn't the guy from Banská Bystrica, the optician (iClinic), the owner of Bratislava Capitals, due to play in EBEL next season, who ended up buying Slovan. It was reportedly a very close call. The iClinic guy was basically already giving interviews as Slovan's new owner, but then everything changed. Fortunately! Because in those interviews, he made it clear he thought the KHL was a bad idea for Slovan, and that Slovan should play in the Slovak league. While, he admitted, the main reason for Bratislava Capitals joining EBEL was so that he can advertise his opticians' business in Austria, using the hockey club, which is otherwise severely limited by Austrian laws.

If the ideal scenario one day occurs – Slovan back in the KHL, Slovan "B" (farm team) in the Slovak league, and Bratislava Capitals in EBEL – it will be interesting with the arena. Can it simultaneously host 3 hockey teams playing in 3 various leagues? Perhaps. It will be co-hosting Slovan and the Capitals in the upcoming season, so 2 teams and 2 leagues are no problem, but adding the KHL on top of that might be difficult.

(Too bad Bratislava did not build a brand-new hockey arena, as it was originally supposed to prior to the 2011 World Championships. That's what you get when both your country and hockey association are ruled by oligarchs... Well, things have changed dramatically for Slovakia in 2020: there's a new anti-corruption government, Šatan is the new hockey president, and Slovan has a new owner. Let's see what happens!)

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

#2 and #4 are resolved for Slovan. Regarding #3, it was in the news today that Slovan's new owner Hrubý met with the mayor of Bratislava in order to discuss paying the debt for the arena left by the previous Slovan ownership, reported to be €600,000 this time around, I think. They said it was a good meeting, so in all likelihood, all debts will be paid and the arena will be available for Slovan in future seasons. And unlike with the previous owner, Široký the oligarch, I don't think the new owners will permit Slovan to accrue new debts.

The biggest stumbling block would be #1, of course, but if the oligarch managed to do it for 7 seasons, so should the new owner, reported to be six times wealthier (and having earned that wealth in upright software business).

Naturally, there is no clue as to whether the new owner is interested in the KHL at all. But, given that his first step was to rehire Krejči, Slovan's general manager from its KHL seasons up until 2017, it at least seems to be a possibility. We can only hope so.

I'm just happy it wasn't the guy from Banská Bystrica, the optician (iClinic), the owner of Bratislava Capitals, due to play in EBEL next season, who ended up buying Slovan. It was reportedly a very close call. The iClinic guy was basically already giving interviews as Slovan's new owner, but then everything changed. Fortunately! Because in those interviews, he made it clear he thought the KHL was a bad idea for Slovan, and that Slovan should play in the Slovak league. While, he admitted, the main reason for Bratislava Capitals joining EBEL was so that he can advertise his opticians' business in Austria, using the hockey club, which is otherwise severely limited by Austrian laws.

If the ideal scenario one day occurs – Slovan back in the KHL, Slovan "B" (farm team) in the Slovak league, and Bratislava Capitals in EBEL – it will be interesting with the arena. Can it simultaneously host 3 hockey teams playing in 3 various leagues? Perhaps. It will be co-hosting Slovan and the Capitals in the upcoming season, so 2 teams and 2 leagues are no problem, but adding the KHL on top of that might be difficult.

(Too bad Bratislava did not build a brand-new hockey arena, as it was originally supposed to prior to the 2011 World Championships. That's what you get when both your country and hockey association are ruled by oligarchs... Well, things have changed dramatically for Slovakia in 2020: there's a new anti-corruption government, Šatan is the new hockey president, and Slovan has a new owner. Let's see what happens!)

Thank you for reminding me, the club can have no outstanding debts to players or landlords.

Still not worth chasing right now. A €3mm player budget would crush extraliga and give them an opportunity to actually make money to fund junior leagues. Get too big for extraliga, then lobby to get into Czech 2 with a path to Czech extraliga.

The idea that I couldn’t buy a ticket in advance for any money, yet I could buy a ticket 1 hour before the game for €5 that was a premium seat from a guy with 20 wristwatches on his sleeve suggests that their ticketing scheme leaves something to be desired.

 

[Faterson]

Still not worth chasing right now.

I disagree. (If you define "right now" as March 2021, the deadline for submitting the application to play in the KHL in 2021/22. That's plenty of time to get everything in order – if there's interest to play in the KHL at all.)

A €3mm player budget would crush extraliga

Who cares? The Slovak league is – or should be, as was the case for decades until 1992 – a second-tier competition, not worthy of Slovan's participation. The Slovak league would be perfect for Slovan's farm team, likewise located in Bratislava, for developmental purposes, as Slovan plays in an international league (KHL; or a Czecho-Slovak league; or futuristically, a European division of the NHL – not EBEL, because EBEL is likewise beneath Slovan's standards).

lobby to get into Czech 2 with a path to Czech extraliga.

You're kidding, eh? It would be an insult for a hockey club like Slovan, celebrating 100 years since its founding, to play in the Czech second league. Playing in Slovakia-only league would be less embarrassing.

By the way, the football Slovan – unlike hockey Slovan, still owned by oligarchs – is facing the same dilemma. The Slovak league is too small for them (they've openly threatened exiting it), Czechs don't want them, but an international football league comparable to the KHL currently doesn't exist. Hopefully, the impact of the pandemic can change that.

The idea that I couldn’t buy a ticket in advance for any money, yet I could buy a ticket 1 hour before the game for €5 that was a premium seat from a guy with 20 wristwatches on his sleeve suggests that their ticketing scheme leaves something to be desired.

Remember it's a completely new ownership group now, and there's no doubt in my mind it will be a completely new way of doing business from now on, regardless of which league Slovan will be playing in.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

I disagree. (If you define "right now" as March 2021, the deadline for submitting the application to play in the KHL in 2021/22. That's plenty of time to get everything in order – if there's interest to play in the KHL at all.)


Who cares? The Slovak league is – or should be, as was the case for decades until 1992 – a second-tier competition, not worthy of Slovan's participation. The Slovak league would be perfect for Slovan's farm team, likewise located in Bratislava, for developmental purposes, as Slovan plays in an international league (KHL; or a Czecho-Slovak league; or futuristically, a European division of the NHL – not EBEL, because EBEL is likewise beneath Slovan's standards).


You're kidding, eh? It would be an insult for a hockey club like Slovan, celebrating 100 years since its founding, to play in the Czech second league. Playing in Slovakia-only league would be less embarrassing.

By the way, the football Slovan – unlike hockey Slovan, still owned by oligarchs – is facing the same dilemma. The Slovak league is too small for them (they've openly threatened exiting it), Czechs don't want them, but an international football league comparable to the KHL currently doesn't exist. Hopefully, the impact of the pandemic can change that.



Remember it's a completely new ownership group now, and there's no doubt in my mind it will be a completely new way of doing business from now on, regardless of which league Slovan will be playing in.

Of course you’re going to disagree, you’re a fan and it’s not your money at risk. I’m not a fan and look at it dispassionately.

They made the playoffs twice in 6 years, were always behind on wages, rent, you name it. To call it a folly is being generous.

Yes, Slovak extraliga is rubbish, trying to join ChanceLiga an insult; but if you want a structure that allows Slovan to compete against teams that are that their level historically(Czech Extraliga), it’s the only chance they have. Merge Slovak & Chance Liga, have Poland/Hungarian/Romanian teams work a pyramid into Slovak 2 and compete their way up. Water will find its own level, grows the game locally by not blowing out budgets for legionaries so they can invest in youth and gives clubs in lower tier countries a path to progress.

Comparable GDP per capita, comparable budgets, better travel costs

 

[vorky]

Of course you’re going to disagree, you’re a fan and it’s not your money at risk. I’m not a fan and look at it dispassionately.

They made the playoffs twice in 6 years, were always behind on wages, rent, you name it. To call it a folly is being generous.

Yes, Slovak extraliga is rubbish, trying to join ChanceLiga an insult; but if you want a structure that allows Slovan to compete against teams that are that their level historically(Czech Extraliga), it’s the only chance they have. Merge Slovak & Chance Liga, have Poland/Hungarian/Romanian teams work a pyramid into Slovak 2 and compete their way up. Water will find its own level, grows the game locally by not blowing out budgets for legionaries so they can invest in youth and gives clubs in lower tier countries a path to progress.

Comparable GDP per capita, comparable budgets, better travel costs

I can not agree with you, especially with the third paragraph. Your scenario is not the only chance they have. They can negotiate with the TELH about joining. Yes, it would be complicated due to the Czechs. Paradoxically, it is easier to join the KHL than the TELH.

There is a feeling in hockey community here (not my words!!!) that the Czech hockey executives look at Slovaks as "someone not worthy to talk to." It is the same behaviour as seen by Europeans looking at the KHL/Russians or the NHL´s position towards the European leagues.

I am not as optimistic as @Faterson, but I share his point of view. The most important new is Krajči´s return. Of course, we do not have inside information, so I will use his interviews. Last year he said he was missing Slovan, but he could not imagine - last year - to come back because now he has his own business. He can not sit on two chairs. Btw, in that interview, he expressed his hope about Slovan´s return to the KHL. Now, he is back. So, Hrubý had very strong arguments to get him. What arguments? At the day of his comeback he said, "Mr. Hrubý called me a two weeks ago and informed me about his visions, which I can not reveal right now." What visions?

 

[vorky]

Slovan´s webmaster still reads the Russian press.