KHL Expansion Part VIII

[SoundAndFury]

It's hilarious how big of a discussion every little nonsense out of somebody's mouth sparks here. There is 0 common sense in this speculation, how do you not get tired of it.

 

[Jussi]

Again, Kurri was Team Finland GM, it was his job to scout players in Europe and North America. It was easier to schedule his and the national team head coach's trips to Russia so that he could limit his travel to St. Petersburg and Moscow and the Finnish players from either home teams or visiting teams. Bringing up Kummola as comparison, who has publicly said had he known the end result, would not today have allowed Jokerit to move to KHL, who was known to have financial investments in Hartwall Areena, is really reaching.

 

[Jonimaus]

AIK wouldn't survive a month in KHL. As mentioned (and been mentioned in previous KHL expansion threads) they are by far the most hated team in Sweden. If AIK were to join, it would take some die hard rich Russian to keep them alive, because they would absolutely have 0% to survive even a week on their own. The club is in shambles because hockey is simply not a big sport within the AIK family, and they'd get 0 fans due to the reputation of the club.

Personally I couldn't care less if AIK join KHL and went there to die. It's not a club important to swedish hockey, and they would be missed by very few.

Some posters here seem to think "oh nice, a Stockholm club, that must mean instant success!", which is about as wrong as it could possibly be. First and foremost, hockey is really not a big sport in Stockholm, and AIK is a small club, with a bad reputation, in a small sport. It's litterally set up for a hilarious disaster.

KHL on the other hand, is a league that gets 0 attention in Sweden, so it's not really a league anyone is curious about.

Personally, if I could give advice to KHL would be to stop forcing things. Having clubs folding and being in extremely poor financial situations is REALLY poor advertising for the league.

 

[cska78]

I don't think Sweden is the way to expand....I think KHL needs to join champions league and hope this tournament takes off. I know this will face tons of opposition, but there is no way to grow a small(-ish) sport without pan-European buy in.

 

[Jonimaus]

I don't think Sweden is the way to expand....I think KHL needs to join champions league and hope this tournament takes off. I know this will face tons of opposition, but there is no way to grow a small(-ish) sport without pan-European buy in.

So far, from what I gather here, is that the KHL fans aren't actually interested in growing the sport. They are interested in growing KHL, and use "growing the sport" as a smoke screen.
So many times I've seen "KHL don't need CHL, CHL needs KHL", which while really funny, just proves my point. It's the "we want to grow hockey, but only if it grows KHL" mentality.

 

[Jussi]

I don't think Sweden is the way to expand....I think KHL needs to join champions league and hope this tournament takes off. I know this will face tons of opposition, but there is no way to grow a small(-ish) sport without pan-European buy in.

So far, from what I gather here, is that the KHL fans aren't actually interested in growing the sport. They are interested in growing KHL, and use "growing the sport" as a smoke screen.
So many times I've seen "KHL don't need CHL, CHL needs KHL", which while really funny, just proves my point. It's the "we want to grow hockey, but only if it grows KHL" mentality.

Considering how huge the losses are for example for Jokerit alone and KHL wanting to cut team losses, logic dictates that participating in the CHL would be the best route. It would require some uniformal league scheduling around Europe, with regular seasons closer 50 than 60 games (Liiga and KHL the obvious "problems" here), which would create windows for those games. One would think KHL participation would bring sponsorship money from there as well which could raise the prize money over one million euros per season. Test it out for 3 seasons and see what the overall effect has been for revenue and public interest.

 

[alko]

Is in Sweden a territory, where isnt a big team in top league, where is good stadium, people are interested in hockey and from logistic points it isnt a hell ride?

 

[vorky]

I don't think Sweden is the way to expand....I think KHL needs to join champions league and hope this tournament takes off. I know this will face tons of opposition, but there is no way to grow a small(-ish) sport without pan-European buy in.

If you want to grow the European club hockey, you need to impress the fans, sponsors, media.

You have your own reply to this rhetoric question.

I can give you an example from the Czech Republic. At the time of Lev Prague, fans, media did talk about Lev all the time. Especially, when they met Slovan or playoff games. Their affiliated club Sparta Prague playing the Czech league had a very good roster, many players would not play for Sparta if not affiliation with Lev. Of course, there were fans/media who was the opponent of Lev, and others supported them. The point is the media talked about HOCKEY.

Now, you can compare it to the CHL. There are only obligated reports of CHL results, nothing more. CHL is a good idea, but it is always about people and money. If you do not have them, you will not succeed.

Still, the KHL will not join the CHL, they have another model of the growing the game in Europe&Asia.

And, you know it very well, so you added, "hope this tournament takes off" Not a good strategy, I would say.

 

[Toro2017]

Considering how huge the losses are for example for Jokerit alone

That new book that Marko Lempinen wrote about Harkimo also tells us (iltasanomat.fi), that originally Timchenko and Rotenberg were ready to help Jokerit with 6 million euros per year, for three years. So that did not go at all as they planned and in reality Jokerit cost them 10-15 million euros per year. Losses are up to 60-70 million euros now. So lets hope that if/when KHL expand to Germany, France and other places, they have more realistic plans about finances. I would imagine that even in Germany credible KHL team could not become self sufficient with 6 million euros per year for three years.

 

[vorky]

That new book that Marko Lempinen wrote about Harkimo also tells us (iltasanomat.fi), that originally Timchenko and Rotenberg were ready to help Jokerit with 6 million euros per year, for three years. So that did not go at all as they planned and in reality Jokerit cost them 10-15 million euros per year. Losses are up to 60-70 million euros now. So lets hope that if/when KHL expand to Germany, France and other places, they have more realistic plans about finances. I would imagine that even in Germany credible KHL team could not become self sufficient with 6 million euros per year for three years.

My dear friend @Toro2017!

If I were you, I would not worry at all!

Let me remind you that the political environment has influenced the KHL since 2014. Now, the KHL is ready for such a scenario.

I recommend you to read what Medvedev said about Jokerit.

Have a nice day!

 

[Jussi]

Is in Sweden a territory, where isnt a big team in top league, where is good stadium, people are interested in hockey and from logistic points it isnt a hell ride?

Now that Leksand were promoted, I don't think so.

 

[Jussi]

That new book that Marko Lempinen wrote about Harkimo also tells us (iltasanomat.fi), that originally Timchenko and Rotenberg were ready to help Jokerit with 6 million euros per year, for three years. So that did not go at all as they planned and in reality Jokerit cost them 10-15 million euros per year. Losses are up to 60-70 million euros now. So lets hope that if/when KHL expand to Germany, France and other places, they have more realistic plans about finances. I would imagine that even in Germany credible KHL team could not become self sufficient with 6 million euros per year for three years.

That matches with what username Cobol has been saying at Jatkoaika, that from what he's heard in Helsinki hockey/business circles (and that man has connections, not just Virmanen ), the losses were far bigger than the Russians anticipated. By the way, the article also brought up the conundrum Harkimo faces with those Russian funders. They've wanted him out for long but because they're on sanction list, he has leverage. On the other hand, Harkimo actually does want to get rid of Jokerit, but because of those sanctions, no potential Finnish buyer wants to have anything to do with it.

 

[Jonimaus]

Now that Leksand were promoted, I don't think so.

The closest match is probably Modo at this point. But it's in a small city (in general, all the cities where hockey is super popular are fairly small), and really has no opportunity to grow.

 

[Toro2017]

That matches with what username Cobol has been saying at Jatkoaika, that from what he's heard in Helsinki hockey/business circles (and that man has connections, not just Virmanen ), the losses were far bigger than the Russians anticipated.

I also have heard that they had to spend way more money than they planned, but 18 million planned and 60-70 million spended so far? That was not a very good (or realistic) plan, so lets hope that whom ever KHL goes to business with in Germany and other possible expansion places, will not be with a local Harkimo. But then again, KHL has lost money propably in all the expansion locations, so maybe the fault is not in local "Harkimos"

By the way, the article also brought up the conundrum Harkimo faces with those Russian funders. They've wanted him out for long but because they're on sanction list, he has leverage. On the other hand, Harkimo actually does want to get rid of Jokerit, but because of those sanctions, no potential Finnish buyer wants to have anything to do with it.

Lets hope Jokerit gets a new owner. Maybe, just maybe they can then start with a clean table. If that is at all possible. Harkimo has told that the new owner would be a nice guy, but then again Harkimo is also a politician.

 

[cska78]

So far, from what I gather here, is that the KHL fans aren't actually interested in growing the sport. They are interested in growing KHL, and use "growing the sport" as a smoke screen.
So many times I've seen "KHL don't need CHL, CHL needs KHL", which while really funny, just proves my point. It's the "we want to grow hockey, but only if it grows KHL" mentality.

this comes from Russian mentality, plain and simple. Has nothing to do with fanship.

 

[PuckOut]

This is certainly true for those that support Hammarby in football, but there's also potential among those who do not have a preexisting strong affiliation with any club and are first and foremost interested in watching hockey. Younger generations are anyway more likely to choose between AIK and DIF even in soccer, while Hammarby's supporter base is much older. Regarding their own base AIK has the problem that many have an immigration background and do not have culturally as strong inclination towards hockey as they do towards football.

What are you guys talking about? Have any of you lived in Stockholm..? This is crazy.

 

[Albatros]

It was already several years ago, but a study by Sponsor Insight found significant demographic differences among the supporters of various Stockholm-based clubs. Among the age group 60-74 Hammarby was by far the most popular in Stockholm with around 25 %, followed by Djurgården just under 20 % and AIK little over 10 %. Conversely within the age group 15-29 Hammarby had only just over 10 % support and Djurgården around 25 % with AIK over 20 % as well.

 

[vorky]

The Russian President recommended the French businessmen to finance the French KHL club, who has support from the French President.

I was so wrong with diplomacy ....

 

[Jonimaus]

The Russian President recommended the French businessmen to finance the French KHL club, who has support from the French President.

I was so wrong with diplomacy ....

That is beyond pathetic. What an absolute joke.

 

[Jussi]

Of course no source linked...

 

[vorky]

That is beyond pathetic. What an absolute joke.

My dear friend!

Feel free to teach them!

 

[Jonimaus]

My dear friend!

Feel free to teach them!

Sure. Tell them to post here.

 

[Jussi]

That is beyond pathetic. What an absolute joke.

And French businessmen and -women are more interested in giving money to rebuild the Notre Dame than an ice hockey club...

 

[SoundAndFury]

In way way way more realistic and relevant news, Belarussian president Alexander Lukashenko while talking to the press yesterday said: "maybe they (Dynamo Minsk) will disgrace themselves for another season but afterwards we don't need KHL and we don't need such team".

 

[Toro2017]

In way way way more realistic and relevant news, Belarussian president Alexander Lukashenko while talking to the press yesterday said: "maybe they (Dynamo Minsk) will disgrace themselves for another season but afterwards we don't need KHL and we don't need such team".

Gazeta.ru has a article about this. So it sounds like if they (Dinamo Minsk) dont make success out of next season, then KHL is out of Belarussia.