KHL Expansion part IV (Mod warning post 760)

[vorky]

Some news today about the "Eisbären Juniors to MHL"-Story. The regional tv station MDR had a five minute feature about it this afternoon: Eishockey: Eisbären Juniors nach Russland?

Sounds very promising how people like Tretyak, Reindl (Secretary General of German hockey federation) and Ziesche (Head of Eisbären Juniors) speak about this topic.

Interesting, that Stefan Lindner is involved again. He was the guy who wanted to bring the team "Torpedo Leipzig" to KHL in 2011. And now it shows, that he still wants it. Berlin to MHL should be a first step to establish a team from Germany to KHL. The video speaks about a start allready in 2015 but I am very sceptical about that. We still have no sufficiant venue at all here in Leipzig. But if a "go" sign to Juniors/MHL would include the same to Torpedo/KHL for 2015 he could get out the idea to modify one of the empty exhibition halls at the old "Leipziger Messe" fair ground again. I think this could be done within a year.

German webpage Hockeyweb had also someting about this topic today: Ein Baustein für Torpedo Leipzig in der KHL?

Agree with bold part. I think Eisbären is candidate not Torpedo Leipzig. As I know KHL does not want new clubs (like Lev Praha) anymore.

 

[vorky]

I am watching the video of MDR, there is a letter of MHL to DEB - there are two clubs Torpedo Leipzig and Eisbären. Does it mean that Leipzig wants to join MHL as well?

 

[kometa]

I am watching the video of MDR, there is a letter of MHL to DEB - there are two clubs Torpedo Leipzig and Eisbären. Does it mean that Leipzig wants to join MHL as well?

No, the letter only speaks about installation of Eisbären Juniors Berlin to MHL. The also mentioned PHC Torpedo Leipzig was founded by Stefan Lindner to participate in KHL spring 2011. This company (GmbH / german version of Ltd.) is still existing and it looks like that it is part of the deal in some way.

I don't see the "big" Eisbären from DEL switching to KHL but restarting Torpedo Leipzig again sounds even more strange to me and I am living here. So let's see, if there are more solid news in the next days. Maybe the local press will find some space not only to talk about Red Bull Soccer here but also about the resuming of Lindner's KHL dream.

 

[vorky]

We will see. I follow KHL closely and I think that KHL does not want to create new clubs like Lev or Torpedo. So this report is strange for me. Eisbären would make sense. Yes, switching might not be possible for us now, but look at Jokerit. Would you believe that Jokerit joins KHL before they annouced it last June?



What is connection among Lindner and Eisbären junior. Does he want to sponsor the MHL team?

 

[vorky]

we will be happy to have German Club as a member of our league and we support the management of PHC? Torpedo and Eisbären Juniors with full force and hope for the same support from your side

the letter from video. I dont understand why Torpedo is mentioned here...

 

[TemplateR]

the letter from video. I dont understand why Torpedo is mentioned here...

Perhaps, that KHL is changing his mind about new clubs?

I prefer installing new Clubs for a pan-european league instead of etablished clubs in a league.

 

[kometa]

Lee only said, that this would be a top opportunity for the young guys to improve the level of hockey development.

Your lead to Jokerit regarding Eisbären makes sense in that way, that there were some reports about AEG's plans to sell their hockey investments in Europe. The mentioned reason for them would probably to save money for bringing back a NFL francise to their home market LA. But what I defentitely can say, that AEG is making a loss of more that 1 million Euro per season with Eisbären but they keep them as main tenant at O2 Arena. So why not sell venue and team as a package? But that's only speculation.

The only mentioned connection between Lindner and Eisbären (Juniors) was a meeting at last year's world championship when he suggested Berlin to apply to MHL. I don't see him and his St. Petersburg based TRI Holding neither big enough nor interested in sponsor Berlin's MHL participation. His only goal is to get his KHL team and now it's the third time after 2011 and 2012 that he is in the news with that. Don't know what to think about him and his plans.

 

[kometa]

the letter from video. I dont understand why Torpedo is mentioned here...

I think, the company "PHC Torpedo Leipzig GmbH" is involved in some management stuff regarding this Eisbären Juniors apply. If I were in Berlin's shoes I wouldn't risk my junior sports club with all it's public fundings and tax benefits for that. So I guess, that they use Torpedo for business issues.

Btw. PHC means "Professional Hockey Club".

 

[vorky]

Lee only said, that this would be a top opportunity for the young guys to improve the level of hockey development.

Your lead to Jokerit regarding Eisbären makes sense in that way, that there were some reports about AEG's plans to sell their hockey investments in Europe. The mentioned reason for them would probably to save money for bringing back a NFL francise to their home market LA. But what I defentitely can say, that AEG is making a loss of more that 1 million Euro per season with Eisbären but they keep them as main tenant at O2 Arena. So why not sell venue and team as a package? But that's only speculation.

That is what I think.It is important to know if AEG still wants to sell it. The problem might be with sanctions on Russia... but sanctions wont take forever.

The only mentioned connection between Lindner and Eisbären (Juniors) was a meeting at last year's world championship when he suggested Berlin to apply to MHL. I don't see him and his St. Petersburg based TRI Holding neither big enough nor interested in sponsor Berlin's MHL participation. His only goal is to get his KHL team and now it's the third time after 2011 and 2012 that he is in the news with that. Don't know what to think about him and his plans.

I think that Torpedo is only a "game". Look, KHL wants club/s from Germany. We all know it. Established clubs does not want to take risk or federation is against. If KHL wanted Torpedo, there would be an attempt to ask federation for approval. Like it was done with AIK or Poprad in Slovakia. Lindner had chances in past. I think that KHL does not want Torpedo as new club, KHL wants established clubs.

Thx for explanation about "PHC Torpedo Leipzig GmbH"

 

[Jussi]

That applies mostly to the Russian teams bound by import restrictions imposed by the Russian hockey federation. A German team would be in a different situation, it would actually help the league to explore yet untapped German and (possibly) Swiss player markets, as well as to attract more better quality North Americans to Europe.

it's not about money, it's about player production. The quality of German players isn't going to magically jump the moment they move the KHL, same for Norwegians. The groundwork will still have to be done at junior level.

 

[bobbeaver]

it's not about money, it's about player production. The quality of German players isn't going to magically jump the moment they move the KHL, same for Norwegians. The groundwork will still have to be done at junior level.

sure but those that are good or have a potential to be good can get better in KHL. Look at Sasa Martinovic. everyone and i mean EVERYONE thought he was an average to good EBEL player. He was played at one point out of desperation i would say and he just exploded in KHL very fast to be a very fine D in Medvescak. Same with Bjorkstrand. How do oyu know very good players of those leagues wount up their game as they adapt to the lvl of KHL league. Some players are not as good because in a way they dont need to be, or the style is different of the league they played in. I mean they learn and adapt to the faster game and new "rules of the game". I am sure there is alot of em that have a reserve to up their game and become better players.

 

[Rekin]

In Germany indeed a big problem has for years been that the local talent doesn't get enough opportunities to develop in the big league, it's not like there isn't production but it just is utilized way too poorly. Especially the scoring lines are still nowadays manned pretty exclusively with fairly average North American imports.

 

[obskyr]

it's not about money, it's about player production. The quality of German players isn't going to magically jump the moment they move the KHL, same for Norwegians. The groundwork will still have to be done at junior level.

The drop in quality isn't that big, it's not like Felix Schtüz had much trouble transitioning from the DEL. Will there be enough players? I guess. Barys managed to build a top level KHL team with a predominantly Kazakhstani roster, for a German club it should be even less of a problem.

Money will come in handy for drawing players from across the pond and I have a feeling that say Berlin would do even a better job at that than Astana or Minsk.

 

[PuckOut]

This song starting to be funny and also tiresome.. I can't believe that you still don't undestand it. Fans? Your opinion? Nobody cares about that.. if KHL wants Swedish team they will get one (or maybe more), sooner or letter but they will...

Slovan fans wanted to boycott, many of them had done it.. and guess what? No one cares about that, almost all games in last two years was sold out...

Czech fans, "we dont want that fake team here".. "nobody cares about them and nobody cares about KHL (Russian teams and Russian league) here.." and guess what? Popularity of them are grownig, their attendance in PO was great.. Not mention that if you call Lev that they are fake team, they are mad..

Then Finns on this board or in personal talk.. "KHL in Finland? No way, fans will never allow it.. bla bla bla" ... Jokerit is there, and no one cares about fans or anyone on this board.

note: ten boys in masks, yeah whole KHL is afraid of them..

Slovan fans before one of their BBQ session (how they call it)

Unlike many other countries, swedish clubs are not owned by individuals or companys. They are owned by their members. That means that without sanction from the members at the annual meeting this sort of thing can not happen i Sweden.
By law, this cannot be overridden or changed without wholesale changes to the swedish sports climate. Any intentions to go the way of private capital was denied last year by the power of the members of the swedish sports associations.

So there. If the fans (members) cares in one way or another, they have the power to stop or push something like this. Regardless of russian money/influence etc.

Swedish sports clubs are democratic, easy as that.

 

[Rekin]

Yes and no, AEG has a lot of say in Hammarby and Djurgården as well and a lot of pro hockey teams are operated as joint-stock companies, or AB as it's called in Sweden. So the situation is fairly similar to Germany.

 

[Jussi]

The drop in quality isn't that big, it's not like Felix Schtüz had much trouble transitioning from the DEL. Will there be enough players? I guess. Barys managed to build a top level KHL team with a predominantly Kazakhstani roster, for a German club it should be even less of a problem.

Money will come in handy for drawing players from across the pond and I have a feeling that say Berlin would do even a better job at that than Astana or Minsk.

They relied heavily on their foreign players though. It didn't help their national team at all, they still got relegated. A potential German or Norwegian club would have to do the same. It doesn't guarantee them automatic improvement. Like I said, one club suddenly taking most potential domestic players doesn't improve the player development in the big picture, when the other teams have to replace them with inferior players. It will mean those potential future players will be develop in a much inferior environment.

 

[Urbanskog]

They relied heavily on their foreign players though. It didn't help their national team at all, they still got relegated. A potential German or Norwegian club would have to do the same. It doesn't guarantee them automatic improvement. Like I said, one club suddenly taking most potential domestic players doesn't improve the player development in the big picture, when the other teams have to replace them with inferior players. It will mean those potential future players will be develop in a much inferior environment.

Kazakhstan could have won several of their matches though. They lost only by one goal against Germany, Finland, USA and Latvia.

 

[bobbeaver]

Belorussia also seams to have taken off. they did great vs strong teams.
Kazahstan coulda done better but they were close to not getting relegated.
On other hand maybe KHL should go to France lol they kicked ass on WC hehehe

 

[Jussi]

Kazakhstan could have won several of their matches though. They lost only by one goal against Germany, Finland, USA and Latvia.

But they still lost. It doesn't matter how good you "looked", but rather what's on the scoreboard after the game is over. One could also ask how much of that "look" was due to coaching?

 

[obskyr]

They relied heavily on their foreign players though. It didn't help their national team at all, they still got relegated. A potential German or Norwegian club would have to do the same. It doesn't guarantee them automatic improvement. Like I said, one club suddenly taking most potential domestic players doesn't improve the player development in the big picture, when the other teams have to replace them with inferior players. It will mean those potential future players will be develop in a much inferior environment.

And did that affect the talent pool available to the KHL teams? Not really, it's not even European imports they're relying on. Performance of their national team is rather irrelevant in this conversation. They didn't get worse, right? They're pretty much the same bubble team they were few seasons ago. Sure, the KHL would only get better if the level of their players suddenly rose, but that is in no way KHL's responsibility. Player development depends mostly on junior programs and quality of coaching in domestic leagues. If you have problems with that, it's silly to blame foreign leagues for damaging your country's talent pool. It's certainly not KHL's fault that Finland hasn't been able to produce top level NHL skaters for like a decade.

 

[Peter25]

KHL's job is not player development. In order for Kazakh and Belorussian hockey to improve they need to invest in hockey infrastructure and hockey programs. They need more rinks, more coaches, more kids playing hockey.

Kazakhstan has only 4,324 player and 18 rinks. They will always be a "bubble hockey country" with those miniscule resources.

 

[PuckOut]

Yes and no, AEG has a lot of say in Hammarby and Djurgården as well and a lot of pro hockey teams are operated as joint-stock companies, or AB as it's called in Sweden. So the situation is fairly similar to Germany.

AEG owns less than 12,5% of Djurgården Hockey AB and has no representative on the board. They do not have a lot to say in Djurgården. The situation in Hammarby is massively different.

 

[fedfed]

So, Eisbaren junior team enters MHL so... Torpedo Leipzig can enter the KHL? I just can't put pieces together here. I would like Leipzig ONLY with Eisbaren entering too (and they can take Munich with them). Instant rivalries would draw fans and help them early on, like a rivalry with Slovan helped Lev.

 

[Jussi]

So, Eisbaren junior team enters MHL so... Torpedo Leipzig can enter the KHL? I just can't put pieces together here. I would like Leipzig ONLY with Eisbaren entering too (and they can take Munich with them). Instant rivalries would draw fans and help them early on, like a rivalry with Slovan helped Lev.

I believe they've only requested it so far, German federation hasn't decided yet?

 

[Rekin]

AEG owns less than 12,5% of Djurgården Hockey AB and has no representative on the board. They do not have a lot to say in Djurgården. The situation in Hammarby is massively different.

12,5 % AND their home arena. Sure it's different with Hammarby, but definitely AEG is a very important partner for both.