KHL Coverage in North America and Europe

[TheWhiskeyThief]

There has always been a market for soccer in North America. There have been fairly good TV ratings dating back to the 90s. The World Cup has always had good viewership, even when Canada and America aren't playing.

Three years ago, Premier League ratings in North America were second highest of all time. I don't know anyone who said there wasn't a market for it. Whoever did either didn't know what they were talking about or didn't exist.

Hockey is a niche sport. European hockey is even more niche. We are in 2020, where there are multiple fishing channels. If there was money to be made from broadcasting European hockey in North America, it would have happened by now.

Both the KHL & SHL tried to do it, but committed to Eleven Sports, which could screw up a 2 car parade. Now streaming is tied up with a “network” that barely has a US website, doesn’t have US apps and apparently been bought out by a lacrosse streaming service in the USA.

At this point there is so much consolidation going on in Scandinavia broadcasting they’re just trying to navigate that.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Both the KHL & SHL tried to do it, but committed to Eleven Sports, which could screw up a 2 car parade. Now streaming is tied up with a “network” that barely has a US website, doesn’t have US apps and apparently been bought out by a lacrosse streaming service in the USA.

At this point there is so much consolidation going on in Scandinavia broadcasting they’re just trying to navigate that.

If there was actual interest, a capable network or streaming service would have picked it up. We live in a universe with multiple fishing channels. Every profitable niche market has been explored. If no one legitimate or capable has picked it up so far, it is because there is minimal interest.

 

[Rigafan]

One problem with America/Canada too is that, they have the NHL so anything other than the NHL is 'minor league/beer league/pointless'. US/CAN isn't so much a 'hockey countries' but an NHL countries and that is a shame because there are great hockey leagues outside of the NHL BUT the majority of NHL fans simply do not care - this is also evident by the amount of minor leagues that appear and go bust and also the AHL which some teams struggle with attendance and fans.

So other than the KHL and maybe one or two more leagues it wouldn't be worth setting up all the deals, infrastructure to get a hundred extra people watching their product I don't think. It's a shame because even in Europe its almost impossible to watch certain things (Hello Swiss league) but that's why other avenues exist. Although I agree i hate watching at crap quality full of ads. I'd happily pay for some kind of Netflix of Hockey type system!

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

If there was actual interest, a capable network or streaming service would have picked it up. We live in a universe with multiple fishing channels. Every profitable niche market has been explored. If no one legitimate or capable has picked it up so far, it is because there is minimal interest.

Not if you’re tied in to multi-year contracts.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Not if you’re tied in to multi-year contracts.

To be tied in to multi-year contracts has absolutely nothing to do with the capability of networks to pick up or even exploring it.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Yet today I can watch Premiership, Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga, Jupiler League, Lihue 1, Allsvenskan, Eredivise & Danish Superliga. I can watch English rugby, Pro14, & Heineken Cup. I can watch field hockey and cricket almost 24-7.

Exactly. I can go on any illect streaming site and find a few links that will at least show the games. Not for nothing, but is there really a demand over watching the Allsvenskan soccer league over the SHL?

I would love a service like DAZN (or SportTV in Portugal) where you could access a bunch of different leagues for one fee. I know I would pay for that

 

[Rigafan]

So there is a channel on YouTube 'Real Russia' the guy does streams and videos, hes from UFA but has moved to St Petersburg.

I noticed yesterday he uploads a video about SKA game he went to, thought oh cool. Clicked and.... THIS VIDEO IS BLOCKED BACK WNMG? IN YOUR COUNTRY BECAUSE OF VIEWING RIGHTS ISSUES

It's really ridiculous

 

[cska78]

just let KHL sell games in NA like they used to....I just don't get this.

 

[Rigafan]

just let KHL sell games in NA like they used to....I just don't get this.

The problem is the amount of indivdual people buying a game directly from the KHL website vs the amount of money some sports channel will pay to cover those games instead.

I'm sure the KHL prefers the money upfront from the sports channels, which is far it just sucks for us who have to jump through hoops to try watch the league.

 

[adsfan]

One problem with America/Canada too is that, they have the NHL so anything other than the NHL is 'minor league/beer league/pointless'. US/CAN isn't so much a 'hockey countries' but an NHL countries and that is a shame because there are great hockey leagues outside of the NHL BUT the majority of NHL fans simply do not care - this is also evident by the amount of minor leagues that appear and go bust and also the AHL which some teams struggle with attendance and fans.

So other than the KHL and maybe one or two more leagues it wouldn't be worth setting up all the deals, infrastructure to get a hundred extra people watching their product I don't think. It's a shame because even in Europe its almost impossible to watch certain things (Hello Swiss league) but that's why other avenues exist. Although I agree i hate watching at crap quality full of ads. I'd happily pay for some kind of Netflix of Hockey type system!

I disagree with everything in your post that I bolded. There is a lot more than NHL hockey and hockey fans here or even beer leagues.

For 2018-19, the last full season, the AHL had teams that averaged from 9021 fans a game in San Diego to 3067 for Belleville in Canada. If you average those two numbers, the high and the low gives you 6,044 fans a game. When you have 31 teams, like the AHL, you will always have a few that struggle. It is going to resemble a bell curve when you have that many data points. The AHL has been around since 1936 and will continue for many years into the future.
I don't think that their 6.5 million fans a season are going away. The AHL has some national and local TV coverage. You can pay for games on the internet.

The IHL went from 1945 to 2001, when it was absorbed into the AHL. I have been following the Milwaukee Admirals, an IHL member from 1977 to 2001 and then into the AHL from 2001 to present, since 1981. They averaged 5412 during 2018-19. In the AHL years, it has been as high as 6329 and they usually run in the range of 10th to 15th in league attendance. In the IHL days, the Ads went 3 straight years averaging over 9,000 fans a game.

Below the AHL, the ECHL has 30 teams. The AHL teams call up ECHL players for injury replacements, just like the NHL calls up AHL players. Milwaukee's parent team is Nashville and their ECHL affiliate is the Florida Everblades.
After the ECHL, I don't really follow hockey other than some college teams like the Wisconsin Badgers, who are six time NCAA champions.

In Canada, they are crazy about Junior hockey. They have over 130 teams, but a few of them are based in the US.
The US also has Junior hockey, but not like Canada. We also have US college hockey for men and women. They have 138 and 93 teams respectively.

The US has 568,000 registered hockey players and Canada has 621,000 registered hockey players.

I don't see how I could follow any European leagues. There really isn't enough time. I know that some Nashville prospects or players are over in the KHL right now. I see some highlights on YouTube.

 

[Rigafan]

I disagree with everything in your post that I bolded. There is a lot more than NHL hockey and hockey fans here or even beer leagues.

For 2018-19, the last full season, the AHL had teams that averaged from 9021 fans a game in San Diego to 3067 for Belleville in Canada. If you average those two numbers, the high and the low gives you 6,044 fans a game. When you have 31 teams, like the AHL, you will always have a few that struggle. It is going to resemble a bell curve when you have that many data points. The AHL has been around since 1936 and will continue for many years into the future.
I don't think that their 6.5 million fans a season are going away. The AHL has some national and local TV coverage. You can pay for games on the internet.

The IHL went from 1945 to 2001, when it was absorbed into the AHL. I have been following the Milwaukee Admirals, an IHL member from 1977 to 2001 and then into the AHL from 2001 to present, since 1981. They averaged 5412 during 2018-19. In the AHL years, it has been as high as 6329 and they usually run in the range of 10th to 15th in league attendance. In the IHL days, the Ads went 3 straight years averaging over 9,000 fans a game.

Below the AHL, the ECHL has 30 teams. The AHL teams call up ECHL players for injury replacements, just like the NHL calls up AHL players. Milwaukee's parent team is Nashville and their ECHL affiliate is the Florida Everblades.
After the ECHL, I don't really follow hockey other than some college teams like the Wisconsin Badgers, who are six time NCAA champions.

In Canada, they are crazy about Junior hockey. They have over 130 teams, but a few of them are based in the US.
The US also has Junior hockey, but not like Canada. We also have US college hockey for men and women. They have 138 and 93 teams respectively.

The US has 568,000 registered hockey players and Canada has 621,000 registered hockey players.

I don't see how I could follow any European leagues. There really isn't enough time. I know that some Nashville prospects or players are over in the KHL right now. I see some highlights on YouTube.

And that's the beauty of the forum is we get to debate these topics. I was genralising a lot, I should have made that more clear. Of course hockey is popular in Canada and US there is no denying, I know the AHL well and it's history plus the ECHL. As a European with my own teams and leagues to follow there isn't enough time as you say to keep up with everything, but I try my best to stay informed enough.

My point is that anything outside the NHL is considered 'not good enough' You see this constantly and it's a shame. People think (most people from NA that I seem to find anyway) if Player X has decided to stay home in Switzerland all his career then he isn't 'good enough' and he 'should have moved to the NHL' - and that's the problem, the NHL isn't everything. Earning hundreds of thousands of Euros to play hockey in Europe is a very good idea and life for a lot of players, not everybody needs to enter the NHL to 'prove themselves'

The AHL and ECHL have no independent teams, they are reliant on the NHL players to be dropped down or they simply wouldn't be able to afford to operate. The salaries on some AHL teams (players soley employed by the AHL team not an NHL contractee' and sometimes less than what a players can make in the UK Elite League for example so without the NHLs help the two leagues would not be as big nor strong as they are. I was going to link the list of defunct minor leagues in the US but it is simply too big to list here! You can search it yourself though and see what I was talking about - without the NHL the leagues come and go in an endless cycle because people would rather drive 4 hours to watch their closest NHL team than some 'drop out' player on a local league.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

I noticed yesterday he uploads a video about SKA game he went to, thought oh cool. Clicked and.... THIS VIDEO IS BLOCKED BACK WNMG? IN YOUR COUNTRY BECAUSE OF VIEWING RIGHTS ISSUES

It's really ridiculous

Yeah. I was excited when the Russian Premier League started showing full games on their YouTube channel...but it’s blocked in the States.

So I guess it isn’t just a KHL thing. But yeah it sucks.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

To be tied in to multi-year contracts has absolutely nothing to do with the capability of networks to pick up or even exploring it.

So you’re proposing tortious interference and breach of contract? That may fly in Russia...

And to escape your tautology, HockeyTV now showing all product that is on Fanseat along with Slovak league(possibly: shows up in search, but games not listed) and IIHF competitions.

 

[cska78]

Went on DEL site, interviews, statistics, site is quite modern and pleasant to look at. And then there is KHL, where everything is geo blocked in the states...grrrrr

 

[Atas2000]

Went on DEL site, interviews, statistics, site is quite modern and pleasant to look at. And then there is KHL, where everything is geo blocked in the states...grrrrr

On the other hand the DEL is just a slave league to the NHL. They pray to Canada. Believe me, I know. Come back to Russia, nothing is geo blocked here As one of my jewish friends who lives in Israel told me "problems of jews not living in Israel are not our problems". I understand where he comes from.

As for the KHL site it certainly needs a big overhaul, but not in terms of geo blocking. The stats section needs to be re-done completely and brought up to date, while keeping some of it's interesting features, that are quite unique. I like the scores section in-game, but post-game it is a pain in the ass. The news section I don't care much about as it's still better to get the news from dedicated sports news sites(same with the NHL btw).

 

[vorky]

On the other hand the DEL is just a slave league to the NHL. They pray to Canada. Believe me, I know. Come back to Russia, nothing is geo blocked here As one of my jewish friends who lives in Israel told me "problems of jews not living in Israel are not our problems". I understand where he comes from.

As for the KHL site it certainly needs a big overhaul, but not in terms of geo blocking. The stats section needs to be re-done completely and brought up to date, while keeping some of it's interesting features, that are quite unique. I like the scores section in-game, but post-game it is a pain in the ass. The news section I don't care much about as it's still better to get the news from dedicated sports news sites(same with the NHL btw).

Regarding the KHL website. They have a partnership with SAP. They are working on a new design & stats section. They will add all-time Soviet league statistics at least. They have been releasing some stories from the Soviet league for the last couple of months.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Agree with the website comments. As clunky as the KHL site might be, it is far less cumbersome than the NHL site. When I was writing for HF, the NHL site didn't have much video or bells and whistles but the statistics and information was easy to access. After the re-make it became almost impossible to navigate.

 

[cska78]

On the other hand the DEL is just a slave league to the NHL. They pray to Canada. Believe me, I know. Come back to Russia, nothing is geo blocked here As one of my jewish friends who lives in Israel told me "problems of jews not living in Israel are not our problems". I understand where he comes from.

As for the KHL site it certainly needs a big overhaul, but not in terms of geo blocking. The stats section needs to be re-done completely and brought up to date, while keeping some of it's interesting features, that are quite unique. I like the scores section in-game, but post-game it is a pain in the ass. The news section I don't care much about as it's still better to get the news from dedicated sports news sites(same with the NHL btw).

why not change geo-blocking...the league that meant to be Continental (if only with a K) is geo-blocked in places where they might want to market to various communities.

 

[cska78]

On the other hand the DEL is just a slave league to the NHL. They pray to Canada. Believe me, I know. Come back to Russia, nothing is geo blocked here As one of my jewish friends who lives in Israel told me "problems of jews not living in Israel are not our problems". I understand where he comes from.

As for the KHL site it certainly needs a big overhaul, but not in terms of geo blocking. The stats section needs to be re-done completely and brought up to date, while keeping some of it's interesting features, that are quite unique. I like the scores section in-game, but post-game it is a pain in the ass. The news section I don't care much about as it's still better to get the news from dedicated sports news sites(same with the NHL btw).

As far as your friend's saying - Jews living in Israel are very good at asking for help from Jews not living in Israel...of course it's off topic, and the league should market itself better. At least Osadhcenko's daily updates are available, even though he is not good at commentary.

 

[Atas2000]

why not change geo-blocking...the league that meant to be Continental (if only with a K) is geo-blocked in places where they might want to market to various communities.

NHL is geo blocking it's content too. I see here links to vids by NHL that are geo blocked for me. It is what it is.

 

[cska78]

NHL is geo blocking it's content too. I see here links to vids by NHL that are geo blocked for me. It is what it is.

NHL makes money, KHL waists the money...

 

[SoundAndFury]

At least Osadhcenko's daily updates are available, even though he is not good at commentary.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing that in an organization of the size of the KHL you can basically luck into the job, in such a public position too, and stay there.

 

[Atas2000]

NHL makes money, KHL waists the money...

Really? LOL

1.The KHL makes money. But I don't expect an American to know that.

2.Why NHL teams cry poor despite the league’s record growth

That was just 8 year ago in a league that exists for over ahundred years. So do some KHL teams lose money? Yes. But so do some NHL teams. Pro-sports never was a pure business enteprise. It was, it is and it will remain the billionaires' playground.

3.Don't even let e lecture you about the economica background, because it's off-topic and might shatter your perception of the "real" world. Ad also because it is somewhat personal to me. The NHL is making money and part of it s my money stolen from me. I am not starting a riot. I just don't like when people tell me that those profits are "earned" as I know all to well how economic systems really work.

 

[vorky]

Really? LOL

1.The KHL makes money. But I don't expect an American to know that.

2.Why NHL teams cry poor despite the league’s record growth

That was just 8 year ago in a league that exists for over ahundred years. So do some KHL teams lose money? Yes. But so do some NHL teams. Pro-sports never was a pure business enteprise. It was, it is and it will remain the billionaires' playground.

3.Don't even let e lecture you about the economica background, because it's off-topic and might shatter your perception of the "real" world. Ad also because it is somewhat personal to me. The NHL is making money and part of it s my money stolen from me. I am not starting a riot. I just don't like when people tell me that those profits are "earned" as I know all to well how economic systems really work.

I would just add a few words here.

The pandemic has shown that the NHL´s business model is not ideal. A few months without fans or limited fans and the league is done. House of cards, domino effect.

But what is my point. The business. Yeah, a great business if your clubs are taking all players from all globe for close to zero as financial compensation. It would be another business if clubs had to pay above 100,000,000 dollars annually just to get players.

 

[cska78]

I would just add a few words here.

The pandemic has shown that the NHL´s business model is not ideal. A few months without fans or limited fans and the league is done. House of cards, domino effect.

But what is my point. The business. Yeah, a great business if your clubs are taking all players from all globe for close to zero as financial compensation. It would be another business if clubs had to pay above 100,000,000 dollars annually just to get players.

I am not arguing the flaws in the system, the pandemic exposed the whole world as a flawed system. But KHL is a black hole, as far as money goes. NHL is a gradually build up business, capitalizing on tei gains, such as being able to get the best players for close to nothing, but that's one way of looking at it. The other way of looking at it, all the best players want to play in the NHL, and will lose money, risk their growth, and put on the table everything they can.