Ansar Khan: Khan thinks the vets will have a short leash.

[Winger98]

Yup the deal was like 2106/17 600/100 and then 2017/18 was 650. So a 2 year deal around $625,000 per. Per Khan

Have to think Sproul wanted it like that to look more appealing on the waiver wire.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Have to think Sproul wanted it like that to look more appealing on the waiver wire.

Yup that's pretty much my feeling as well, It does make it look more appealing on the waiver wire for him. Would think that maybe Toronto or Edmonton could take a flyer on him both could be looking for a bottom pairing RHD.

 

[BinCookin]

Yup that's pretty much my feeling as well, It does make it look more appealing on the waiver wire for him. Would think that maybe Toronto or Edmonton could take a flyer on him both could be looking for a bottom pairing RHD.

Im not sure what you guys mean?

"look more appealing on the waiver wire?"

500K/600K/700K. These tiny differences dont mean much.. They especially don't mean much if its 25K. If other teams had their eye on Sproul. They will claim him either way. Plus a 2 year contract if anything might be a deterent to claim him. Vs a 1 year deal.

IMHO no one wants Sproul. I don't think he ever makes the NHL.

I would LOVE to be proved wrong on that though. But I expect nothing from him.

 

[Frk It]

If you want to minimize the risk of losing players to waivers you do the following:

Nielsen-Z-Tatar
Abby-Larkin-Nike
Vanek-Helm-Sheahan
Miller-Glenny-Ott

Dekeyser-Green
Kronwall-Marchenko
Ericsson-Smith

13th forward Pulkkinen
7th D: Ouellet
8th D: Sproul

Waive Frk, assign to GR after clearing waiver (becomes extra skater when injuries hit)
Wavie Jensen, assign to GR after clearing waivers (stays in GR because he has no future here)

 

[Winger98]

Im not sure what you guys mean?

"look more appealing on the waiver wire?"

500K/600K/700K. These tiny differences dont mean much.. They especially don't mean much if its 25K. If other teams had their eye on Sproul. They will claim him either way. Plus a 2 year contract if anything might be a deterent to claim him. Vs a 1 year deal.

IMHO no one wants Sproul. I don't think he ever makes the NHL.

I would LOVE to be proved wrong on that though. But I expect nothing from him.

No, the second year makes it more appealing. Someone grabs him off waivers, they invest the time and money into seeing if he can play this year, they have to like knowing they have that second year locked down if the guy actually takes off and becomes even serviceable on the third pairing.

If he's only signed for one year, someone invests time/money/etc. and he takes off...suddenly he's looking to negotiate for a (perhaps significantly) higher deal or hitting the open market and you're losing the guy and the investment for nothing when you could have spent the past year developing your own guy who you know will be around for awhile.

And if Sproul just continues to be an AHLer? He's dirt cheap and his cap can be entirely buried in the minors. That second cheap year is insurance for whoever grabs him if he does well.

 

[Frk It]

If he's only signed for one year, someone invests time/money/etc. and he takes off...suddenly he's looking to negotiate for a (perhaps significantly) higher deal or hitting the open market and you're losing the guy and the investment for nothing when you could have spent the past year developing your own guy who you know will be around for awhile.
.

His 2 year deals expires with him still having RFA status, so a 1 year deal would as well. Either way, don't believe he would "hit the open market".

 

[SimplySolace]

If you want to minimize the risk of losing players to waivers you do the following:

Nielsen-Z-Tatar
Abby-Larkin-Nike
Vanek-Helm-Sheahan
Miller-Glenny-Ott

Dekeyser-Green
Kronwall-Marchenko
Ericsson-Smith

13th forward Pulkkinen
7th D: Ouellet
8th D: Sproul

Waive Frk, assign to GR after clearing waiver (becomes extra skater when injuries hit)
Wavie Jensen, assign to GR after clearing waivers (stays in GR because he has no future here)

Hoping Z still at center was an oversight.. Otherwise I expect that to be the line-up too. I'm also assuming Vanek starts riding the press box in a couple months.

 

[19 for president]

Ideally I think you run:

Nyquist-Nielson-Vanek
Zetterberg- Larkin- Abby
Tatar-Helm-Sheahan
AA- Glenny- Ott/Miller

That puts a good amount of speed on every line, and puts scoring threats on every line, while also not having any lines be a defensive mess. I loved the Z-Larks-Abby line last year, and I think it is important to keep Larkin w/Z. Zetterberg helps him slow the game down a little bit, gives him a mentor on the ice, and allows Z to step in on a key faceoff if Larks isn't quite up to snuff there yet. Putting Nyquist with Nielson gives him a real playmaker to play with, and adds speed to that line. Vanek is there to do the dirty work and shoot. The third line can be fiesty, and I want to see what Sheahan looks like at Wing. Last line is speed and grit, but AA gives it the ability to score on occasion. Realisitcally though he'll go down and Miller will take that spot.

Defense:
Dekeyser-Green
Smith- Kronner
XO/ Big E-Marchy

I honestly think the Wings are waiting to see if one of Marchy, Sproul, Smith, or XO really grab a slice of the pie and take a top 4 spot or two. If none do I expect and early season trade.

Extras: Pulu, Sproul, Big E

Jenson and Frk get waived.

Mrazek
Howie

 

[Frk It]

Hoping Z still at center was an oversight.. Otherwise I expect that to be the line-up too. I'm also assuming Vanek starts riding the press box in a couple months.

Totally was. Old habits die hard I guess, lol.

 

[Winger98]

His 2 year deals expires with him still having RFA status, so a 1 year deal would as well. Either way, don't believe he would "hit the open market".

My mistake, I thought he hit UFA after the one year. Still, it's another year you don't have to negotiate or worry about a raise.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Its 2016 and we are just now hearing speculation about this.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[HockeyinHD]

*cough* strawman *cough*

You don't know what a strawman argument is, and you don't understand the nature of my comment.

If they would have not signed so many vets, and essentially made it obvious that guys like AA and Mantha were definitely getting significant minutes, then a comment like "the vets are on a short leash" makes more sense, because it shows a clear direction of youth taking over.

No. Wrong.

A) When you sign vets of varying degrees of ability and you also issue a statement that vets are on a short leash, that's when such a statement actually matters. If you don't sign (m)any vets, then why talk about them being on any kind of leash? What vets are there?

B) Why do people persist to live in this fantasy where they think 'the youth taking over' is anywhere in the top 10 of what the team is trying to do? Teams where the 'youth takes over' are almost universally terrible. If that's just a backhanded effort to be pro-tank, whatever I guess... as an actual method of being remotely competitive, however, it's profoundly terrible.

With the approach they used this summer (and have been predominantly using for several years now), those vets "on a short leash" likely will not only have ample leash to work with, but will most likely be replaced by other vets if they do get benched.

It's always amusing to read people say something to that effect. The entire team is stuffed with Wings players, but people actually, really think the team doesn't trust their youth.

Of the 15 likely forwards 11-12 were Wings picks (11 with Ott). Of the 17 total with pro contracts, 12 are Wings picks. Of the 6 dmen, 5 were Wings picks. Of the 2 goalies, both were Wings picks.

18-19 players off of the 23 man NHL roster are Wings picks, and because the team has 4 or 5 vets from elsewhere on the whole roster, people will actually use that as support for the position that the Wings don't trust youth. That they somehow go out of their way to freeze out younger players from carving out roles on the NHL club.

Detroit overvalues high-floor, low-ceiling guys. (In other news, water is wet.)

Well, that's how you build a consistent team.... which is obviously what they want. It's not 'overvaluing' to them because they place more emphasis on remaining good than you do. I don't understand why you consistently attempt to overwrite your assessment of value onto the teams, and then complain that the team isn't meeting your standard. They never tried to. It's like complaining that the team doesn't have a heavyweight they can roll out there to win fights. They aren't trying to win fights.

All Detroit is trying to do is extend the streak. That's it. The only rational discussion to be made is regarding the propriety of that strategy. Once one starts criticizing roster moves made based on them not meeting the goals of entirely different strategies, all people are doing is peeing up wind. It's like walking into Wendy's and denouncing them for not having Sweet and Sour Chicken.

Dude, if you want Moo Go Gi Pan, you're in the wrong restaurant.

 

[jkutswings]

You don't know what a strawman argument is, and you don't understand the nature of my comment.

You responded to a post, arguing against something the person never said. That is exactly what a strawman argument is.

It's always amusing to read people say something to that effect. The entire team is stuffed with Wings players, but people actually, really think the team doesn't trust their youth.

Of the 15 likely forwards 11-12 were Wings picks (11 with Ott). Of the 17 total with pro contracts, 12 are Wings picks. Of the 6 dmen, 5 were Wings picks. Of the 2 goalies, both were Wings picks.

18-19 players off of the 23 man NHL roster are Wings picks, and because the team has 4 or 5 vets from elsewhere on the whole roster, people will actually use that as support for the position that the Wings don't trust youth. That they somehow go out of their way to freeze out younger players from carving out roles on the NHL club.

Yet another strawman.

Whether the players were drafted by Detroit or not isn't what I was talking about, and is irrelevant. A youth movement means that younger players are given more ice time and playing more prominent roles. Whether they were drafted by the Wings and spent a decade in Grand Rapids, or they were a walk-on in camp, or they bounced between 12 other teams in their first 2-3 years in the league, doesn't matter. What matters is that this summer consisted of signing several veteran players, both from within and without of the organization, and continued the practice of ensuring that younger players have to wait an inordinate amount of time before they get a real shot to make an impact.

Well, that's how you build a consistent team.... which is obviously what they want. It's not 'overvaluing' to them because they place more emphasis on remaining good than you do. I don't understand why you consistently attempt to overwrite your assessment of value onto the teams, and then complain that the team isn't meeting your standard. They never tried to. It's like complaining that the team doesn't have a heavyweight they can roll out there to win fights. They aren't trying to win fights.

All Detroit is trying to do is extend the streak. That's it. The only rational discussion to be made is regarding the propriety of that strategy. Once one starts criticizing roster moves made based on them not meeting the goals of entirely different strategies, all people are doing is peeing up wind. It's like walking into Wendy's and denouncing them for not having Sweet and Sour Chicken.

Dude, if you want Moo Go Gi Pan, you're in the wrong restaurant.

Read each of those bolded statements. My point is that they're mutually exclusive. Extending the streak, continuing to be first round cannon fodder, is not at all "remaining good". It's clinging to low expectations and abandoning any meaningful accomplishments because you want to take the easy road.

If Detroit somehow makes the playoffs another 50 years in a row, all of which are early exits, that's nothing more than 50 wasted years, because they never did anything of substance with the time.

You can say that the franchise has different values than I do about what's important, but look at the Atlanta Braves in baseball, or any of the other teams that continued to make the playoffs, but never won a title. History views them as failures, not genuises.

Illitch and Company can pad their pockets all they like, but the fundamental nature of professional competition is to be the best, and sports fans are perfectly entitled to be upset that, after demonstrating with remarkable consistency that they are capable of reaching the mountaintop, the Wings' front office has purposefully abandoned any realistic chance at ever doing it again, in exchange for some easy money.

 

[Retire91]

lol Vets and Short leash with Holland. I needed a good laugh today.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

Ideally I think you run:

Nyquist-Nielson-Vanek
Zetterberg- Larkin- Abby
Tatar-Helm-Sheahan
AA- Glenny- Ott/Miller

That puts a good amount of speed on every line, and puts scoring threats on every line, while also not having any lines be a defensive mess. I loved the Z-Larks-Abby line last year, and I think it is important to keep Larkin w/Z. Zetterberg helps him slow the game down a little bit, gives him a mentor on the ice, and allows Z to step in on a key faceoff if Larks isn't quite up to snuff there yet. Putting Nyquist with Nielson gives him a real playmaker to play with, and adds speed to that line. Vanek is there to do the dirty work and shoot. The third line can be fiesty, and I want to see what Sheahan looks like at Wing. Last line is speed and grit, but AA gives it the ability to score on occasion. Realisitcally though he'll go down and Miller will take that spot.

Defense:
Dekeyser-Green
Smith- Kronner
XO/ Big E-Marchy

I honestly think the Wings are waiting to see if one of Marchy, Sproul, Smith, or XO really grab a slice of the pie and take a top 4 spot or two. If none do I expect and early season trade.

Extras: Pulu, Sproul, Big E

Jenson and Frk get waived.

Mrazek
Howie

He'll certainly shoot, but I'm not sure about the doing the dirty work part. Does he do dirty work? I have not seen Vanek play a ton, but from what I have seen of him during the WCH2016, he seems to go out of his way to avoid doing any dirty work. There was one game where the TV guys were laughing at one such instance where he very clearly avoided going into the corner first after a loose puck.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He'll certainly shoot, but I'm not sure about the doing the dirty work part. Does he do dirty work? I have not seen Vanek play a ton, but from what I have seen of him during the WCH2016, he seems to go out of his way to avoid doing any dirty work. There was one game where the TV guys were laughing at one such instance where he very clearly avoided going into the corner first after a loose puck.

Vanek is one of the best net-front guys in the NHL. I don't think he is terrible in the corners but he has always made his presence known in front of the net. We need that.