khan talks training camp

[Winger98]

Probably a scope which is just cleaning out fluid and removing excess scar tissue if so.

The biggest problem is with a acl is the mental aspect in addition to not being able to put any weight on the leg, you are incapable of putting any weight on your leg, if you try you just fall straight over unto the ground.

So there is a rust component, the mental component, the full rehab which can be between 12-24 to return to full efficientcy. You can't just say he has/had this so it takes x long. He has only been out for around 10 months so it is fairly early for him to be ready. He probably won't look back in form for a likely 5-6 months but the acl tear in football (usa) or hockey can take a bit. You can be recovered in around 12-13 months but to get full functionality can take up to 18-24 months. Luckily he didn't injure his mcl however. That takes longer but could be career ending.

ugh, your post made me curious and I had to go googling. It was major knee reconstruction including repairing an ACL tear. It said at least three months, and he came back nearly three months to the day, played 24 games averaging over 22 minutes a night and then nearly 20 minutes a night in the playoffs.

I'm not saying expectations should be the same for Svech. I've been saying for awhile that I expect him to start the year in GR. It's more that Chelly was just a freak.

 

[Mlotek]

I suspect someone would get moved if that happens. I don’t see all the 8 guys I listed going to GR and someone being scratched. I could see them moving out Lashoff or McIlrath, or Kaski/Saarijarvi/Lindstrom going back to Europe, or something like that.

Will be interesting to see how it’s handled.

Assuming nobody is lost on waivers.

If too many D is actually a problem (in GR), it is possible Detroit could 'loan' one of their D to another AHL franchise.

 

[odin1981]

ugh, your post made me curious and I had to go googling. It was major knee reconstruction including repairing an ACL tear. It said at least three months, and he came back nearly three months to the day, played 24 games averaging over 22 minutes a night and then nearly 20 minutes a night in the playoffs.

I'm not saying expectations should be the same for Svech. I've been saying for awhile that I expect him to start the year in GR. It's more that Chelly was just a freak.

I would be interested in the chemical cocktail for pain management or steroids he was on because 3 months is insane.

 

[Mlotek]

I would be interested in the chemical cocktail or steroids he was on because 3 months is insane.

Probably best HGH/stem cell treatments that Mr. Illitch could arrange in Mexico.

 

[odin1981]

ugh, your post made me curious and I had to go googling. It was major knee reconstruction including repairing an ACL tear. It said at least three months, and he came back nearly three months to the day, played 24 games averaging over 22 minutes a night and then nearly 20 minutes a night in the playoffs.

I'm not saying expectations should be the same for Svech. I've been saying for awhile that I expect him to start the year in GR. It's more that Chelly was just a freak.

Actually it said it was a scope in the link so makes sense it was 3 months I shortened the name down to scope. He probably had a small tear than.

 

[RedMenace]

Players must earn their roster spot. Nobody will be handed a job.

Contracts, the salary cap, waiver status and experience will still be significant factors, however, in determining who makes the season-opening 23-man roster.

Well, which is it?

I think that referrs more to guys who are being paid too much and/or are too old... I'm probably wrong though.

 

[odin1981]

Probably best HGH/stem cell treatments that Mr. Illitch could arrange in Mexico.

I'm no doctor but I don't know how advanced hgh was back than. But the problem is hgh is more often used on muscle tears.

A acl tear is a ligament and I'm unsure how/if that would work for cartilage or ligament's but as I said above I'm no doctor.

 

[Gniwder]

I have a weird feeling if Kaski doesn't make the Wings, he will head back to Europe and not play for GR

He can't unless the Wings agree to loan him, he signed a contract (one year ELC).

 

[SCD]

It also depends on the type of repair. The gold standard repair has been using the middle third of the petella tendon. Strongest outcome, but longest total recovery. When I had mine done, I was walking without a brace in a week, but it took 18 months to feel normal.

The quickest recovery is using cadaver ligaments. My surgeon said he could get a lineman back playing in 3 months with that type of repair. It just isn't as strong.

 

[Winger98]

Actually it said it was a scope in the link so makes sense it was 3 months I shortened the name down to scope. He probably had a small tear than.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems the article says it was a scope in Oct, but the reconstruction was a month later in November. I think they went in thinking it was a small tear, found the more extensive damage, and then came back in a month to do it up right.

Chelios might have been doped to the gills, but I think part of it is just Chelios being Chelios.

 

[ShelbyZ]

He can't unless the Wings agree to loan him, he signed a contract (one year ELC).

Actually, some guys like Kaski get what's called a "European Assignment Clause" in their NHL contracts that say if they don't make the NHL team, they have the option to force an assignment to their European club instead of going to the AHL/ECHL. Some also kick in if they aren't on the NHL roster by a certain date (ala Igor Grigorenko back in the day). Rybar apparently had one in his contract last season, but stuck around in the AHL all season, although it's possible the clause was to keep him from having to play any lower than the AHL. Sulak had one as well, but not sure which years of his contract it applied to.

As per the CBA:

11.19 Loan to Clubs Outside North America.
The SPC of any Player may contain a clause that provides that, in the event his NHL Club Loans the Player to a club outside the NHL, during the period of such Loan, the Player shall have the option to be Loaned to a club of his choice outside North America. The clause may relieve the NHL Club of the obligation to pay the Player his Paragraph 1 Salary for the duration of such Loan if such relief is expressly stated in the provision, but the NHL Club shall otherwise be responsible for all other payments due to the Player by the NHL Club pursuant to his SPC. Such clause shall be subject to any applicable Player Transfer Agreement between the NHL and a hockey federation and/or the IIHF in effect, at the time of the Loan. The Player shall be permitted to make financial arrangements for compensation and other benefits with the club outside North America for the duration of the Loan, which financial compensation and benefits shall not be included in Averaged Club Salary, Actual Club Salary, League-wide Player Compensation or the Players' Share. The Club shall be required to provide to the NHL and the NHLPA in accordance with Exhibit 3 any loan agreement entered into in relation to such Loan by no later than 5:00 p.m. New York time on the day following the day the Club has received the executed loan agreement.

According to Cap Friendly, Kaski's deal does not contain such a clause however. Interestingly, it does come with $850k in potential performance bonuses.

 

[Hen Kolland]

It also depends on the type of repair. The gold standard repair has been using the middle third of the petella tendon. Strongest outcome, but longest total recovery. When I had mine done, I was walking without a brace in a week, but it took 18 months to feel normal.

The quickest recovery is using cadaver ligaments. My surgeon said he could get a lineman back playing in 3 months with that type of repair. It just isn't as strong.

Patellar tendon is generally the most difficult recovery because of how rigid it is and getting it to function like the ACL tendon takes time. I had the patellar tendon option done, on top of having both my lateral meniscus trimmed and my medial meniscus repaired. I was 0% weight bearing for almost a month, but it wasn't because of the ACL, it was because of the meniscus needing time to heal in whatever fashion it was going to.

As an Average Joe, I found that I was able to return to my athletic activities by probably 10 months post-op, and that by 12 months, I felt completely confident in my knee, and possibly stronger than when I injured it. I feel like it's easy to just do what seems easiest over time, but going through the attention to detail with a physical therapist and trying to strengthen the knee and everything around it, it's easy to see how your standard lifting program isn't going to cut it. My surgeon suggested the "standard" return time has been pushed up over time, I think he said 9 months for a return to activity, and there was even a point where some were suggesting 6, but the rate of re-injury increases, and a safe time frame was a year to be back.

There's no doubt that they tried to rush Svech along his recovery timeline to attempt to have him back last year, which is probably foolish. But even when the procedure took place, my money was on a plan to have him ready for camp this year. Physically ready to step on the ice, with no chance of re-injury (excluding another freak injury), and just needing to get his mind for the game up to speed.

 

[avssuc]

A lot of this feels like it is directed at Abby and Helm... or maybe that's just me.

What might this imply in your opinion? I think we all understand that Abby is stuck in this org until his contract expires, but is Helm a waiver or trade target? Is he worth anything to Holland or other GMs around the league? He and Ericsson are the last remaining from the 2008 cup team (Ericsson more like Abby in that he didn't play in the POs), so I wonder if Yzerman feels like that might help his team going forward.

 

[MBH]

What might this imply in your opinion? I think we all understand that Abby is stuck in this org until his contract expires, but is Helm a waiver or trade target? Is he worth anything to Holland or other GMs around the league? He and Ericsson are the last remaining from the 2008 cup team (Ericsson more like Abby in that he didn't play in the POs), so I wonder if Yzerman feels like that might help his team going forward.

Eat some of Helm's contract, and it's short enough he might have value.
I wouldn't put much value in Helm/Ericsson/Abby being connections to the old era of Red Wings' hockey.

 

[ShelbyZ]

As far as the log jam on D in GR is concerned...

If you consider that one of Cholowski or Hronek were meant to be on the NHL roster for the whole season last year (which is basically how it shook out) and don't count as a "call up", the Red Wings ended up having at least one Dman from GR "called up" to the NHL roster for over 50% (76) of the 141 days of the NHL season that passed before Jensen was traded.

That included stints where the Red Wings either held onto or called up Hicketts or Lashoff to simply sit in the press box to give them a close by warm body because they only had 6 healthy D. And that was with them already having a warm body #8D on the roster in the form of Luke Witkowski.

If the Wings go into the season with 7 D on the roster (Green, DeKeyser, Nemeth, Hronek, Daley, Ericsson, Bowey), that number is probably a good bit higher than 76 as they'll be recalling guys to give them 7 healthy D if someone goes on IR, which would give guys in GR more opportunities to play.

If they go into the season with 8, it's likely because a guy currently tabbed for GR is staying on the NHL roster.

I supposed another Sproul for Puempel type deal could be furnished, but that was when the Red WIngs had 8 D tabbed for the big club (Green, Kronwall, Ericsson, Jensen, DeKeyser, Daley, Ouellet and Witkowski) and 8 D tabbed for GR (Lashoff, McIlrath, Sproul, Renouf, Russo, Hronek, Hicketts and Sarijarvi).

I'm still betting the most likely outcome is that one of the young D (Cholowski, Kaski or Seider) plays there way into a regular spot in the NHL and they carry 8 until the deadline, or they carry an 8th D on the NHL roster as insurance that usually sits in the press box when everyone is healthy (most likely Hicketts as he makes the most sense).

I also think there will be some jockeying/rotating/etc. at D in GR to figure out what they have before any sort of adjustments are made. Lashoff, McIlrath and Hicketts are the only guys where they probably truly know what they have to offer at the AHL level. It's probably reasonable to expect that Cholowski also becomes a top guy in GR if he is sent down. Otherwise, Sarijarvi still really hasn't established himself as he was pushed out of a spot when GR had full health on D last season, as well as when everyone went back down for the playoffs. Seider, Kaski and Lindstrom have no N/A pro experience. Do they make an immediate AHL impact like Hronek did, or do they go through some growing pains or even struggle like Sulak did last year? I think once they figure that out, they can look into moving a Lashoff/McIlrath/Hicketts for depth at another position if needed.

 

[vladdy16]

my first thought about roster is choski needed the off season to digest everything as he became overwhelmed with all the coaching and level of competition causing him to lose his way second half . but the time off cleared his mind and he comes to camp and wins a job in the bigs . though maybe yzerman wants him starting in the A as theres no reason to rush . either way i say he re establishes himself as the top 4 dman he was looking like he'd become first half last season

I can't wait to see what this guy looks like this year!

He marches to his own beat a bit, and from day 1 Yzerman has gone out of his way to not mention Cholowski.

The gauntlet has been thrown imo, and I think/hope Cholowski has the makeup to offer a strong response right out the gate this year.

 

[odin1981]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems the article says it was a scope in Oct, but the reconstruction was a month later in November. I think they went in thinking it was a small tear, found the more extensive damage, and then came back in a month to do it up right.

Chelios might have been doped to the gills, but I think part of it is just Chelios being Chelios.

No big deal. It killed some time waiting for camp. But yeah I would be interested in how much pain killers he took for that lol. Probably a numbing shot to the knee every game/practice plus like morphine or something to ignore the pain hahaha. Though he probably didn't practice though now that I think about it .

 

[Gniwder]

Actually, some guys like Kaski get what's called a "European Assignment Clause" in their NHL contracts that say if they don't make the NHL team, they have the option to force an assignment to their European club instead of going to the AHL/ECHL. Some also kick in if they aren't on the NHL roster by a certain date (ala Igor Grigorenko back in the day). Rybar apparently had one in his contract last season, but stuck around in the AHL all season, although it's possible the clause was to keep him from having to play any lower than the AHL. Sulak had one as well, but not sure which years of his contract it applied to.

As per the CBA:



According to Cap Friendly, Kaski's deal does not contain such a clause however. Interestingly, it does come with $850k in potential performance bonuses.

I'm aware they can have clauses, there was no mention of it in any of the press releases and there was an interview in which Kaski said he was open to playing in the AHL for a year. I think he's got realistic expectations because he spent a year at WMU. I also think the NHL is his end goal.

I wouldn't be surprised if they made some sort of handshake deal that guarantees a few games in the NHL this year. We all know Green will get injured or traded. PLease stay healthy this year Mikey! (We could use another 2nd rd pick. Maybe offer up all 3 for Holland's first, lol. He loves to trade down....)

Also, the performance bonus isn't a surprise either, Wings have the cap space. Plus Kaski could have gone anywhere so they had to give him the best offer possible. Probably based on number of games played.

 

[StNickFan]

I tore my acl back in 2005, had the patellar option done. Went to the Cleveland clinic and my doctor who performed it was the doctor for the Cleveland Cavs. The beginning of the rehab was slow but the back half went pretty fast. The best thing about it was because skating is a lateral motion I was actually on the ice skating (lightly) in 3 months post op. My doctor actually encouraged me to skate as is was great rehab. By the end of month 4 I was actually playing JV hockey games and ended up playing enough varsity games to letter for the year. Today my knee is perfectly fine.

While I’m not exactly sure if svech did other damage to his knee than his acl but if it was just acl then my guess would be he has probably been skating for a while now. If not I’m not sure why is wasn’t.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I tore my acl back in 2005, had the patellar option done. Went to the Cleveland clinic and my doctor who performed it was the doctor for the Cleveland Cavs. The beginning of the rehab was slow but the back half went pretty fast. The best thing about it was because skating is a lateral motion I was actually on the ice skating (lightly) in 3 months post op. My doctor actually encouraged me to skate as is was great rehab. By the end of month 4 I was actually playing JV hockey games and ended up playing enough varsity games to letter for the year. Today my knee is perfectly fine.

While I’m not exactly sure if svech did other damage to his knee than his acl but if it was just acl then my guess would be he has probably been skating for a while now. If not I’m not sure why is wasn’t.

He started skating when last season was still ongoing.

 

[StNickFan]

He started skating when last season was still ongoing.

Yes, my point is that I don’t see any reason he shouldn’t be fully prepared for this season.

 

[dtown77]

I hope the top 6 defensemen are not set. I hope there isn't a top 6 penciled in I want that top 6 to be blank. I hope no one is safe. You come to training camp. You go through preseason and the best 6 players are in.. Period.. like Yzerman seems to be saying, Earn your spot. If Detroit loses a player so be it. Set the tone, make everyone accountable and don't just hand someone a position because of their veteran status or waiver exemption status.

 

[avssuc]

Eat some of Helm's contract, and it's short enough he might have value.
I wouldn't put much value in Helm/Ericsson/Abby being connections to the old era of Red Wings' hockey.

Ericsson and Abdelkader have no 'real' connection, so I wouldn't count them.

I don't know if we should discount living connections to past championships. Helm played a valuable role in 2008, and with the way he earned his spot on that stacked roster, he might serve to motivate the guys looking to break in.

Plus, Helm is still an NHL player.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He started skating when last season was still ongoing.

He was shutdown though later into that process if I remember right. He was trying to make it back for the Griffins run but had some sort of setback if I remember right. Also it is hard to simulate not playing at a high level pace. I think if Svechnikov looks rusty it will be understandable. Happy he spent all summer living with Larks not going to question his effort if he still isn't quite ready to fly out of the gate.

He should have a lot more talent around him in GR if he is down for a bit. I think he can still be an impactful guy for us, obviously a big year but hopefully he gets it righted and on track.

 

[Hen Kolland]

He was shutdown though later into that process if I remember right. He was trying to make it back for the Griffins run but had some sort of setback if I remember right. Also it is hard to simulate not playing at a high level pace. I think if Svechnikov looks rusty it will be understandable. Happy he spent all summer living with Larks not going to question his effort if he still isn't quite ready to fly out of the gate.

He should have a lot more talent around him in GR if he is down for a bit. I think he can still be an impactful guy for us, obviously a big year but hopefully he gets it righted and on track.

I don't recall specifically what happened, but obviously he rushed back. The fact that he wasn't able to return for GR's run is understandable, but physically I expect he's had enough to not be behind the curve in his strength and conditioning. He might need to get his reactions and play speed up, and that is understandable. My fear is this team is so jam packed full of, to put it frankly, a lot of worthless shit, I don't know if he will even have an opportunity to play onto the roster from GR. He might be a deadline call up to fill a hole, but I don't see an avenue for him to blow up and get called up without replacing another young player, which defeats the purpose.