khan : hronek flourishing

[Hen Kolland]

If I had a buck for every time I wanted to slap someone around these parts this past summer for saying Bertuzzi was anything less than an unequivocal top sixer or that we needed to trade for more defense talent cause we didn’t haven anyone who looked capable of playing on the top pair, I’d be rolling in it. Hronek had filthy top pairing defenseman written all over him going back to the A but by like 20 games into last year, it was obvious he was capable of doing things only elite defenseman do.

Not to mention, his AHL stats for his age were comparatively ridiculous as well. And his first NA year, he required almost no adjustment time. The kid is just smart.

I wish I still had the write-up I made on his stats and averages last year, but basically the stats make the easy argument that he’s the best defenseman we’ve had since Lidstrom. No, we haven’t had much to compare him to, but it’s worth noting that he’s already putting Nicklas Kronwall to shame.

He can be our Duncan Keith. We can win it all with him.

Thankfully you played it safe by stopping short of calling him Lidstrom. It’s much more reasonable to call him JUST a two time Norris winner.

 

[Reddwit]

So people want to draft Drysdale if we fall, wait a few years for him to prove he’s capable of replacing Hronek, if he ever is, and THEN trade him for a big return? So when are we going to address our forward issues? 3 years from now? On a hope and a prayer that there’s even a quality forward who addresses our needs to trade Hronek for?

Hronek is already playing #1 defenseman minutes and handling them exceptionally well for playing on such a shit team, producing like a #1, already a regular on both special teams, and hasn’t even played 100 NHL games.

But we want to add to Seider and Hronek with Drysdale so we can maybe deal from a position of strength down the line? Just like we’ve all been claiming we could do with all our wingers for the past, what, 5, 6 years? Now, no one is untouchable, BUT You. Have. To. Have. A. Trade. Partner. To. Make. Trades.

Not only that, but we’re going to use our highest pick in decades on a defenseman when we’ve currently got the best young defenseman we’ve had in decades and the best defense prospect we’ve had in decades?

This seems like a great way to add risk to an already risk-laden draft process. You’re already taking the risk that Drysdale develops as expected, but also that he develops quickly/efficiently and that there’s ever a plus trade for us to make with Hronek.

Would much rather take the risk that Stutzle develops as expected and can be converted to center or that Raymond develops and can carry a line like Kane. At least those risks don’t require contingencies based on other teams’ developments and needs.

 

[Reddwit]

Thankfully you played it safe by stopping short of calling him Lidstrom. It’s much more reasonable to call him JUST a two time Norris winner.

You could be the 2nd best defenseman in the NHL every year and still not win the Norris. Awards are relative to timing, luck, the team you play on, the health of your competition, etc. Hockey sense, vision, and talent are not. Hronek can be our Duncan Keith. He was already better at 21 than Keith was at 22. H is better at 22 than Keith was at 23. No, development isn’t linear, but Hronek has it all and does it all. On this of all teams. At a still-young age.

On that note, I don’t know if it’s hockey fans or just our fans, but this board focuses way too much on a young player’s mistakes and not enough on how he does things correctly. Not what he does correctly per se, but how he does it. Since he’s joined the league, H has made a ton of savvy, veteran, smart, controlled plays. Many of them are blink-and-you’ll miss it things but those are the things I’ve noticed over the years that indicate whether a guy can become elite. Bert displayed similar sense and vision deep into his first NHL stint. Yet many folks were still calling him an Abdelkader type.

Thats also why I changed my tune last year on Raz. He’s still not my cup of tea and I still prefer Necas but his goals in close, his deflections, and his snappy passing in tight spaces exuded talent. Another guy with vision and sense in an area he knows well. Get him used to the rest of the game at the NHL level and you’ll start seeing more of that sense and vision displayed elsewhere. He’ll still have his strengths and weaknesses but a smart player who can see the ice is always a step ahead where all else is equal.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

If I had a buck for every time I wanted to slap someone around these parts this past summer for saying Bertuzzi was anything less than an unequivocal top sixer or that we needed to trade for more defense talent cause we didn’t haven anyone who looked capable of playing on the top pair, I’d be rolling in it. Hronek had filthy top pairing defenseman written all over him going back to the A but by like 20 games into last year, it was obvious he was capable of doing things only elite defenseman do.

Not to mention, his AHL stats for his age were comparatively ridiculous as well. And his first NA year, he required almost no adjustment time. The kid is just smart.

I wish I still had the write-up I made on his stats and averages last year, but basically the stats make the easy argument that he’s the best defenseman we’ve had since Lidstrom. No, we haven’t had much to compare him to, but it’s worth noting that he’s already putting Nicklas Kronwall to shame.

He can be our Duncan Keith. We can win it all with him.

Uhh, Kronwall was a top pairing defender when Lidstrom was here, and arguably for a few years after.

Unfortunately the nagging knee issues had him start to trend downward right when Lidstrom left.

 

[Reddwit]

Uhh, Kronwall was a top pairing defender when Lidstrom was here, and arguably for a few years after.

Unfortunately the nagging knee issues had him start to trend downward right when Lidstrom left.

Never said he wasn’t. I’m referring to the time it took him to get there.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Never said he wasn’t. I’m referring to the time it took him to get there.

... Well yeah, of course Hronek had more opportunities to shine on the 2019 Red Wings than Kronwall did in the 2000s.

 

[Reddwit]

... Well yeah, of course Hronek had more opportunities to shine on the 2019 Red Wings than Kronwall did in the 2000s.

You actually think its easy to shine on a team that is historically bad offensively and defensively with historically bad goaltending as a 21/22 year old defenseman?

Among NHL defenseman, Hronek is:

• 18th in TOI among defenseman (heh, Keith is 17th)
• 23rd in p/pg among defenseman (who have played at least 10 games)
• 28th in points (on one of the worst offensive team’s in NHL history)
• Plays 1st unit PP minutes (2:48, 29th in the NHL)
• Plays 2nd unit PK minutes (2:43, 35th in the NHL)

He is literally, statistically, playing the role of a #1 defenseman and doing it competently on a downright woeful team.

Hronek is playing more at 22 than Kronwall did until he was 32. Hronek is producing at a better clip on a far worse team than Kronwall did until he was 28, despite Nik averaging more PP time. H has a better shooting percentage both this year and last than Kronwall did until he was 29. Hronek is even averaging more PK time and hitting more often than Kronwall at 28/29.

People do not realize the magnitude of what Hronek did even last season. And all he's done this year is take a couple more steps despite being on an even worse team. This is one of those few cases where what looks like hyperbole is actually born out in reality. This kid really is a stud.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

You actually think its easy to shine on a team that is historically bad offensively and defensively with historically bad goaltending as a 21/22 year old defenseman?

Among NHL defenseman, Hronek is:

• 18th in TOI among defenseman (heh, Keith is 17th)
• 23rd in p/pg among defenseman (who have played at least 10 games)
• 28th in points (on one of the worst offensive team’s in NHL history)
• Plays 1st unit PP minutes (2:48, 29th in the NHL)
• Plays 2nd unit PK minutes (2:43, 35th in the NHL)

Hronek is playing more at 22 than Kronwall did until he was 32. Hronek is producing at a better clip on a far worse team than Kronwall did until he was 28, despite Nik averaging more PP time. H has a better shooting percentage both this year and last than Kronwall did until he was 29. Hronek is even averaging more PK time and hitting more often than Kronwall at 28/29.

People do not realize the magnitude of what Hronek did even last season. And all he's done this year is take a couple more steps despite being on an even worse team. This is one of those few cases where what looks like hyperbole is actually born out in reality. This kid really is a stud.

Defensively, no. Offensively, yes.

Imagine what he'd do if we had a competent PP coach and not Dan f***ing Bylsma.

 

[Reddwit]

Defensively, no. Offensively, yes.

Imagine what he'd do if we had a competent PP coach and not Dan ****ing Bylsma.

Let me tell you the story of an 18 year old me who, beginning in 2005, listened to my much less informed dorm neighbor in college rant and rave about how terrible Kronwall was defensively.

At first, I brushed him off. This was Kronwall: the renowned young Swedish defenseman! And my neighbor could barely name half the guys on the roster. What did he know? He clearly didn't see Kronwall's ~20ish game stint as a 23 year old rookie where he looked ready to take on the world. He clearly didn't know Nik was one of the best defense prospects outside North America. He probably didn't even know that he spelled his first name differently than St. Nick himself. How dare he even speak up! But because other dorm mates whose company I enjoyed would gather in my room to watch the games on my box TV, I tolerated him and just brushed off his comments as ignorant nonsense.

Well, as fate would have it, the program I was in required students to stay in a particular dorm for their first 2 years of college. So this guy was watching Wings games with me for two straight seasons. And by the end of that second season, I had to question everything I knew about hockey because - dammit - that asshole was right. Kronwall was repeatedly turnstyled on defense. He was shaky on the back end. He was inconsistent shift-to-shift, game-to-game. And thats probably why, despite being 25 years old, Kronwall was 6th in PK time, a full minute behind the vaunted PKer Mathieu Schneider. That's probably why, despite it being Kronwall's first full year, Lidstrom/Chelios saw an increase in their already obnoxious PK time. That's probably why the Wings felt the need to add Danny Markov and why Kronwall was still dead last among regulars on the PK at 26 years old.

No, Kronwall was nowhere near good defensively at Hronek's age, in North America at least, and it'd be a long time before he reached the level of comfort that Hronek is at right now despite much more support.

The silver lining to that story is that it really showed me how much hype can affect one's ability to accurately judge a player. And that's bidirectional. We see past a player's many mistakes and flaws because of the hype and it takes us far longer to recognize a player's value without it. I saw the mistakes Kronwall was making but because it wasn't supposed to be this way (he was already a goddamn Olympian Gold Medalist ffs), his mistakes carried less value. They couldn't mean that he was bad defensively, just that he was bad in that singular moment. In other words, because his perpetual mistakes didn't jibe with his popular image, they couldn't possibly mean what they mean. But Hronek's mistakes? Well, we still don't believe what we have in him cause we were never really sure what we had with him. His mistakes could very well mean that he will never be exceptional defensively, we think. We require more "proof" that he is what he is whereas with Kronwall, Brendan Smith, Svechnikov, et al, we require more proof that he isn't what he is.

 

[Bench]

I'm excited about this kid...
but I've also had my heart broken by Niskanen (who eventually came around to play well later in life) and guys like Ghost who looked like surefire locked in pieces for the future.

I just get gunshy doing the "We're set at this position for 5+ years now" type projections that always fall apart.

 

[MBH]

I like Hronek a lot. Good passer usually. Good shot.
But his defensive zone play requires a lot of work. He's a liability playing the kind of role he's been in. -17 in his last 22.
His 3.48 GA/60 is worse than Cholo's (3.04). But the main difference is Hronek helps provide 5 on 5 offense. And he plays with some spirit/grit.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Hronek has officially became of most overrated overhyped player.

 

[Frk It]

I like Hronek a lot. Good passer usually. Good shot.
But his defensive zone play requires a lot of work. He's a liability playing the kind of role he's been in. -17 in his last 22.
His 3.48 GA/60 is worse than Cholo's (3.04). But the main difference is Hronek helps provide 5 on 5 offense. And he plays with some spirit/grit.

I don’t think his defense is that bad for his experience level. I think it’s well ahead of Cholowski’s.

I’d like to know what our team sv % is in the last 22 games. Kind of hard to use plus/minus with this team when we have arguably the worst goaltending in the league.

 

[nhlisawesome]

Hronek is a good #4-5 dman who can chip in offensively. It's clear that he can't handle other teams top 6 in the d-end. His plus minus is brutal

 

[MBH]

I don’t think his defense is that bad for his experience level. I think it’s well ahead of Cholowski’s.

I’d like to know what our team sv % is in the last 22 games. Kind of hard to use plus/minus with this team when we have arguably the worst goaltending in the league.

Good point. The .890 save percentage is the 2nd lowest on the team, ahead of only Bowey.
Still, Hronek has been softballing passes for giveaways and throwing pucks up the middle. Today he got bowled over on that first goal.
I think he's better than Bowey and Cholo and some of those old defensemen (Daley/Green/Ericsson) defensively. And unlike Cholo, he plays tough.

 

[Henkka]

Hronek just sucks mostly because of Bowey.

With Nemeth their pairing stats together are just brilliant.

 

[newfy]

I don’t think his defense is that bad for his experience level. I think it’s well ahead of Cholowski’s.

I’d like to know what our team sv % is in the last 22 games. Kind of hard to use plus/minus with this team when we have arguably the worst goaltending in the league.

Yeah hes in his first full season at 22 years old, playing against other teams top players with almost no support. Does he have defensive struggles? Yeah he does, but at his age his defense is still really solid given the minutes hes playing. I'm not worried about his defense moving forward

 

[MTU hockey]

Hronek is a good #4-5 dman who can chip in offensively. It's clear that he can't handle other teams top 6 in the d-end. His plus minus is brutal

You trollin' ? wouldn't be the first time, but I'll bite

the kid is 22 years old playing over 20 minutes a night, producing at around 0.5 PPG (that's more than chipping in thats actually top 50 in the league) with less than 100 games played in the NHL. Clearly you haven't seen who his D partners are or you'd realize he has very little to no help. The team is on pace to set a new record for goal differential so plus minus is pretty useless(and always has been) way to evaluate a player, and only one goalie on the team has recently been able to stop more than 90% of the shots against them. Cam Fowler was a -25 as a rookie on a playoff team, is he a #4/5? or maybe lets wait a few years before applying labels

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Hronek is a good #4-5 dman who can chip in offensively. It's clear that he can't handle other teams top 6 in the d-end. His plus minus is brutal

 

[19 for president]

Hronek is not a number 1 dman but be is being played like he is, because we have no one else. Right now he is a gritty offensive dman by trade that on a decent team would probably be getting 2nd pair minutes and maybe 1b PP time. Nothing about Hronek's style has ever lead me to believe he was going to be able to play a shutdown game. I think his game will develope but he is probably always going to be a guy you pair with a more defensive minded guy if you want an effective pair. I'm actually a little sad that he and Seider are both righties as I think they could be a really dynamic pair.

Don't judge a 22 year old offensive dman by his shutdown game at the NHL level, you will be dissapointed. As long as he develops at least a passable defensive game, he is going to be a very valuable asset in this leage. Also get him back with Nemeth or a healthy DD and he'll look a lot better too.

 

[ricky0034]

I'm excited about this kid...
but I've also had my heart broken by Niskanen (who eventually came around to play well later in life) and guys like Ghost who looked like surefire locked in pieces for the future.

I just get gunshy doing the "We're set at this position for 5+ years now" type projections that always fall apart.

the confidence in this stuff weirds me out,it almost feels like some of these people are Preds fans that took a wrong turn or something

this is the Red Wings,a giant part of me is still expecting Seider to bust and Hronek to regress or at least stagnate

 

[DetroitRed]

Hronek was already one of my favorites last season. I kept saying that he was close to where Green was offensively the last time Green made an all-star team, and this was before Hronek had a full season's worth of NHL games under his belt. I think I also remember him being second among rookie defenders last season. The best surprise about him though, for me last season, was that his game looked more well-rounded than expected. We'd heard him described as an offensive defender, but he looked like he was going to be that plus extra.

This year, he's a little further ahead of where he was. He's now among the top 30 defenders in the league for offense. There are now a few others with less experience who are ahead of him, but there are many more in that top 30 who are much more experienced than him who are within his striking distance, who he'll very likely soon surpass. Also, regarding those less experienced players who are ahead of Hronek in production, consider where they were drafted compared to him.

Maybe it's partially because Detroit needs quality defenders so much, but a defender who can hold his own on the NHL level is a very damn exciting development.

 

[Frk It]

the confidence in this stuff weirds me out,it almost feels like some of these people are Preds fans that took a wrong turn or something

this is the Red Wings,a giant part of me is still expecting Seider to bust and Hronek to regress or at least stagnate

When have we ever had a defenseman show this much this early? Never.

Hronek is 22 and has already put up more points in a season than Kindl or Smith ever did in a Red Wings jersey. When have we ever had a young defeseman producing around a .5 PPG over an extended period? Never.

People got overly excited about Dekeyser despite the fact that he had a very mediocre skill set. Can't say the same about Hronek, there is clearly more talent there.

 

[Bench]

When have we ever had a defenseman show this much this early? Never.

Hronek is 22 and has already put up more points in a season than Kindl or Smith ever did in a Red Wings jersey. When have we ever had a young defeseman producing around a .5 PPG over an extended period? Never.

People got overly excited about Dekeyser despite the fact that he had a very mediocre skill set. Can't say the same about Hronek, there is clearly more talent there.

That's true for the Wings but I've seen this story elsewhere and cited a couple examples. I just can't have my heart broken again, you know?

 

[TheOtherOne]

Hey guys, I time-traveled back here from 2025 and just wanted to let you know that after his 3 consecutive Norris wins we're cautiously optimistic that he MIGHT possibly maybe grow into a solid #1 for us.