KeyArena Renovations Reach $900 Million Mark..May Be Ready By June 2021

[aqib]

Something about a 20% fedral tax credit for heritage buildings. Or something something, not 100% sure how the program works.

https://www.occ.gov/topics/communit...-fact-sheet-historic-tax-credits-jul-2017.pdf

 

[BKIslandersFan]

QC has nothing to do with Guelph’s comment.

It probably does.

 

[Bookie21]

Too bad they couldn't have torn it down and started from scratch. That roof is an eyesore, nothing architecturally fantastic whatsoever with that thing. Probably could have saved 300 million in the process

 

[TheLegend]

It probably does.

Other than QC's arena came in around $30 million under it's original construction budget???

 

[gstommylee]

QC has nothing to do with Guelph’s comment.

They’re already looking at a 50% cost overrun from the original estimate and not even a third of the way through the project.

If it weren’t for the fact that the guys in OVG are stupidly wealthy and don’t mind shoveling money into a project by the mine hauler load this has to raise a few eyebrows.

There are many factors in regards to the high cost. Labor costs is an all high demand in Seattle. Cost of material is high and redesigns within the building. Costs to getting the dirt out of the ground with the least impact as possible. It was never going to be cheap to redo key arena while keeping the existing roof line compared to an arena thats built from ground up and even then your still looking at a 700-800m just to build one in Seattle.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

There are many factors in regards to the high cost. Labor costs is an all high demand in Seattle. Cost of material is high and redesigns within the building. Costs to getting the dirt out of the ground with the least impact as possible. It was never going to be cheap to redo key arena while keeping the existing roof line compared to an arena thats built from ground up and even then your still looking at a 700-800m just to build one in Seattle.

The city council went out of their way to protect the wnba team it was probably a big factor on the desire to keep the arena in Seattle Center

 

[gstommylee]

The city council went out of their way to protect the wnba team it was probably a big factor on the desire to keep the arena in Seattle Center

That has nothing to do with it. The WNBA would have played in the new arena if they went with sodo's arena plan. It comes down to a few reasons, there was no plan to fixed up key arena post sodo arena nothing proposed by hansen's group to address that concern before the failed may 2nd vote and it was a major concern by the 5 no votes by SCC. 2nd thing Sodo arena still need a team (hansen wants nothing to do with the NHL which was another fatal blow to sodo arena) before it gets built and we all know that the NBA isn't going to expand or relocate. Nevermind Hansen and co doesn't have the $$$ to do the project and get a NBA team anyways.

It comes down to this you really need to show that you can get it done with a solid enough plan and addressing every concern people have. OVG did exactly that. Hansen's group did not. Also Hansen did nothing post failed may 2nd vote to get SCC folks to change their minds. Sodo arena project is dead once OVG showed up with a NHL group in tow.

If you want to get something through Seattle politics you really need to know how to play politics.

 

[Roadrage]

IMHO, I believe the only reason OVG is pumping in this kind of cash is the belief that a Seattle expansion NBA franchise is a very good possibility within the next 5-10 years. Perhaps they are slowly aiming to be like Kroenke Sports & Entertainment?

 

[Centrum Hockey]

IMHO, I believe the only reason OVG is pumping in this kind of cash is the belief that a Seattle expansion NBA franchise is a very good possibility within the next 5-10 years. Perhaps they are slowly aiming to be like Kroenke Sports & Entertainment?

A nba expansion team would most likely be awful for a least 10 years there is no way they could do an expansion draft and make the team super competitive like the golden knights in hockey List of Charlotte Hornets seasons - Wikipedia

 

[Roadrage]

A nba expansion team would most likely be awful for a least 10 years there is no way they could do an expansion draft and make the team super competitive like the golden knights in hockey List of Charlotte Hornets seasons - Wikipedia

I think you misread what I wrote. I said that an expansion NBA franchise in Seattle is a very good possibility (as in getting a team) in the next 5-10 years, not that they will be super competitive within 10 years. I think OVG is aiming to be in on the ownership group when expansion to Seattle is opened up.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

A nba expansion team would most likely be awful for a least 10 years there is no way they could do an expansion draft and make the team super competitive like the golden knights in hockey List of Charlotte Hornets seasons - Wikipedia

I don't think it's fair to say that an NBA expansion team can't be like the Golden Knights when there wasn't an NHL expansion team like the Golden Knights until the Golden Knights.

I mean expecting that level of success that quickly from an expansion team is most certainly setting the table for disappointment...but the Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets being useless for so long had a lot more to do with incompetent management and a long line of draft busts than it did with the system in place.

Also I think Seattle would much rather have a NBA team that's going to be awful in the near future over continuing to just not have a team...and I absolutely believe that Seattle getting another NBA team is little more than an inevitability within these next 5-10 years.

 

[gstommylee]

I don't think it's fair to say that an NBA expansion team can't be like the Golden Knights when there wasn't an NHL expansion team like the Golden Knights until the Golden Knights.

I mean expecting that level of success that quickly from an expansion team is most certainly setting the table for disappointment...but the Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets being useless for so long had a lot more to do with incompetent management and a long line of draft busts than it did with the system in place.

Also I think Seattle would much rather have a NBA team that's going to be awful in the near future over continuing to just not have a team...and I absolutely believe that Seattle getting another NBA team is little more than an inevitability within these next 5-10 years.

The current NBA expansion draft rules makes it hard for a NBA to be competitive and have instant success right away.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The current NBA expansion draft rules makes it hard for a NBA to be competitive and have instant success right away.

There's quite a difference between 'right away' and a decade.

Anyone expecting any expansion team in any league to replicate the first season the Knights had is not being remotely realistic, and that includes Seattle entering the NHL with a likely similar set of rules.

 

[stator]

...with the Seattle Center site and located the arena in a much more accessible area already much more connected to transit.

That just means the total price tag is much higher than $930m as the city/county starts transit projects for Key Arena.

The politicians up there probably knew this all along.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I think you misread what I wrote. I said that an expansion NBA franchise in Seattle is a very good possibility (as in getting a team) in the next 5-10 years, not that they will be super competitive within 10 years. I think OVG is aiming to be in on the ownership group when expansion to Seattle is opened up.

Your right but a competitive hockey team can be more valuable then a bad nba team at for the first years of the arena.

I don't think it's fair to say that an NBA expansion team can't be like the Golden Knights when there wasn't an NHL expansion team like the Golden Knights until the Golden Knights.

I mean expecting that level of success that quickly from an expansion team is most certainly setting the table for disappointment...but the Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets being useless for so long had a lot more to do with incompetent management and a long line of draft busts than it did with the system in place.

Also I think Seattle would much rather have a NBA team that's going to be awful in the near future over continuing to just not have a team...and I absolutely believe that Seattle getting another NBA team is little more than an inevitability within these next 5-10 years.

The best unprotected NBA players from the 30 nba teams would be the equivalent of ahl 4 liners in hockey

 

[BattleBorn]

That just means the total price tag is much higher than $930m as the city/county starts transit projects for Key Arena.

The politicians up there probably knew this all along.

I don't think the arena is impacting transit much at all. Sound Transit has had plans for a stop in that area on the Ballard line forever and they just recently completed the Mercer upgrades. They may need to add some pedestrian bridges over Mercer to make it a lot more efficient, but that's something that should happen anyway with all the people crossing Mercer on foot over the course of a normal day.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

The best unprotected NBA players from the nba 30 teams would be the equivalent of ahl 4 liners in hockey

I get that, the sharp line between the haves and the have-nots is a major reason why I've never been able to get into the NBA, I just think it's silly to expect an expansion team to take a decade to figure things out. I don't care what sport you're in, if it takes 7 drafts to draft one player that reaches their potential, even with a bunch of high picks, the problem is probably more with the team than the system.

And let's be clear. If there's further NBA expansion, the expansion set-up would be drastically different than it was for the Bobcats. 15 years have already passed, the commissioner is different, the economics of sports has continued to evolve, Seattle is a larger and wealthier market, etc. It's going to take the longest for an expansion basketball team to be good just because of the way basketball rosters are constructed, I just think saying a decade is a bit silly. The NBA isn't going to give a team to Seattle for an absurd amount of money and then force them to trot out the starting line-up for the Capital City Go-Go...it'll probably be a mix of G League alumni, guys 7th or 8th on the depth chart, and a couple overpaid but still solid players. It'd be in the team's best interest to kinda suck for a little while to bank picks, but that only matters if the team spends them wisely and not on Adam Morrison.

 

[BattleBorn]

The NBA could friendly up an expansion draft by allowing teams to protect 6 or 7 players instead of the 8 they protected in the last expansion and it might make a decent difference as far as competitiveness for the new team. However, since the impact of star players is so much larger in basketball, it still wouldn't be likely to put a team into play that's competing for a playoff spot. The fact that a new team is only required to take a player from half the teams also limits the leverage the new team has in the expansion draft as well.

I think they'll be nicer to Seattle than they were to previous expansion teams, but I don't know that it will matter much.

 

[Roadrage]

Your right but a competitive hockey team can be more valuable then a bad nba team at for the first years of the arena.

I don't know about that. Even if VGK wins the Stanley Cup this season, if the NBA announced that they will entertain bids for an expansion team in Las Vegas the very next day, I'm thinking the basketball team would still end up being more valuable right away.

 

[Burke the Legend]

The NBA could friendly up an expansion draft by allowing teams to protect 6 or 7 players instead of the 8 they protected in the last expansion and it might make a decent difference as far as competitiveness for the new team. However, since the impact of star players is so much larger in basketball, it still wouldn't be likely to put a team into play that's competing for a playoff spot. The fact that a new team is only required to take a player from half the teams also limits the leverage the new team has in the expansion draft as well.

I think they'll be nicer to Seattle than they were to previous expansion teams, but I don't know that it will matter much.

For $1.5 billion or whatever they should be nicer IMO. I think the owners should look at it like hey this is a chance to sell my 5th best player for $50,000,000 cash. Seems like a pretty good deal for the owner to me.

 

[BattleBorn]

For $1.5 billion or whatever they should be nicer IMO. I think the owners should look at it like hey this is a chance to sell my 5th best player for $50,000,000 cash. Seems like a pretty good deal for the owner to me.

They can also get the $50,000,000 and not give up a player at all, let alone their best player, though.

 

[powerstuck]

In Seattle? No it wouldn’t. Might be cheaper to build a new one but only by $200M or so.

Sure, but given it's a private investment, $200M savings is at the very least 4 seasons of profit worth...

 

[Burke the Legend]

They can also get the $50,000,000 and not give up a player at all, let alone their best player, though.

Yeah I guess the NBA can afford to give a new entrant more of a hazing than the NHL. Witness Fertitta seemingly driving a very hard bargain in Houston.

 

[BattleBorn]

Yeah I guess the NBA can afford to give a new entrant more of a hazing than the NHL. Witness Fertitta seemingly driving a very hard bargain in Houston.

I don't know if it's that as much as it's the lack of a hard cap and the size of a roster compared to the number of teams in the league.

There's just not a whole ton of leverage for a new team unless the league does something crazy like allow teams to only protect two or three guys,

 

[powerstuck]

Relax, they still arent giving a team to QC.

It probably does.

If you absolutely want to talk about Qc...lets do it.

In Quebec the brand new 19k seats arena was built in 3 years (2012-2015) for $370M, Canadian dollars.

Now, it's maybe not the same country nor the same amount, but it's still the same continent, same ''business market'' and the price shouldn't be 3x or almost 4x the other.