Kevin Lowe and Ken Holland (Builder) Join HHOF

Discussion in 'Edmonton Oilers' started by Fan 4 Life, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. thadd Oil4Life

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    5 cups, 1 Canada cup. 1,000 GP.
    He never really did anything else of note.
    Is that enough for a d-man to get into the HHOF these days?
    To be fair the only difference between Lowe and Huddy is Lowe playing a few hundred games more, spending twice as much time in the penalty box and winning a cup with the New York Oilers.
     
  2. The Panther Registered User

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    People need to put down the "7 All Star Appearances" Kool-Aid. Lowe appeared in some All Star games as a replacement for injured players, and in some because Glen Sather was picking the team. John Scott and Chris Nilan played in the All-Star game, too.

    Here's Lowe's history of actual season-end All Star selections:

    -- (nothing)

    Here's Ray Bourque's:

    -- Thirteen x 1st
    -- Six x 2nd

    Here's Kevin Lowe's Norris voting finishes:

    -- 5, 7, 8, 10

    Here's Ray Bourque's:

    -- 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 7, 7, 7


    Guess which one is a legit Hall of Famer?
     
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  3. The Panther Registered User

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    How the hell Lowe finished above Chris Chelios in Norris voting in 1988 (Lowe was 5th, Chelios 6th) is baffling...
     
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  4. Al from New Jersey Registered User

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    While you’re at it, compare Gretzky to Iginla to see which ones a legit HHoFer.
     
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  5. KirkW Registered User

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    Whatever. I thought he was a good coach. In his one and only season at the helm, he steered a pretty mediocre (and horribly underfunded for the time) team to 2nd place in the division and a playoff position... Seems pretty tough to knock him for that.

    And even his tenure as GM looks pretty good until 2007. After that, I agree it was all down hill.
     
  6. harpoon He's no Griffin Reinhart

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    Really? You think Lowe was doing it for the paychecks? I guess you could be right but I never got that sense at all. I think he wanted to win so bad he couldn’t quit. If you had said he cared too much about his personal legacy and therefore stayed on longer than he should have trying to undo the damage, I could probably buy that. But the paychecks? I kinda doubt that.
     
  7. The Panther Registered User

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    Well, Iginla achieved multiple 1st-team All Star selections and won the Pearson and the scoring title, just as Gretzky did.

    Lowe has... nothing. No 1st-team All Stars. No 2nd-team All Stars. No Norris (no 2nd place, no 3rd place, no 4th place...one 5th place when two voters were drunk). In the vast majority of his NHL seasons, he received ZERO Norris votes. Never was in the conversation for a Conn Smythe, or for being the best player, or co-best player on his team. Or third-best. Or fourth-best. Or fifth-best. Or sixth-best. (For me, at his absolute peak circa 1981-82 to 1983-84, he was around the seventh or eighth-best Oiler, if I'm being generous. Outside of those seasons, he was never higher than tenth. His last two seasons in Edmonton, he was the co-worst defenceman on the team.)

    What kind of a Hall of Fame is when a guy who was -- at his absolute best -- the seventh-best player on a team, for a very short period?

    It's completely absurd.

    (For what it's worth, I grew up admiring Kevin Lowe and following his career.)
     
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  8. Al from New Jersey Registered User

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    Who cares if hes the 7th best player on a team, if they're all at a HHOF caliber.

    I don't think Lowe should be in, but comparing him to Bourque is ridiculous.

    If you take the 7 best players from a generation and put them on the same team, the 7th player shouldn't get in because hes only the 7th best on his team?
     
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  9. The Panther Registered User

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    You've got this backwards. I'm not the one comparing him to Bourque -- the Hockey Hall of Fame committee is! According to them, Bourque and Lowe deserve equal billing in the sport's greatest mausoleum of historical players. They have now sanctioned that. They have compared them.
    Please tell me you did not just call Kevin Lowe the 7th-best player of his generation....
     
  10. Al from New Jersey Registered User

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    Where did I say he was the 7th best player of his generation?

    I was throwing your argument of the 7th best player not being allowed in due to being the 7th best player on a team back at you.

    I guess Marian Hossa = Wayne Gretzky now.

    Since they are now in the same HHOF.
     
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  11. The Panther Registered User

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    At Lowe's best -- for about four years -- he was maybe the 7th-best guy on his team, and that's being quite generous.

    For most of his career, he was around the 12th-best guy on his team, sometimes lower.

    It disturbs me that people actually think that the 10th-best guy on a team, who received no individual awards and was never thought of as a Hall of Famer during his long career, should be in the Hall of Fame.

    Even people with the most liberal standards for Hall of Fame induction should be calling this a travesty. (Housley, Carbonneau, and Andreychuk were embarrassing selections, though not quite travesties... well, maybe Housley.)
     
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  12. BudBundy Registered User

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    Lol. So Lowe doesn’t stack up well against one of the top 20 d-men to have ever played. No shit. How about you go ahead and do the same exercise for Guy Carbonneau, Clark Gillies, and Bernie Federko compared to Mario Lemieux? As per my previous posts, I don’t think Lowe should’ve made the cut, but your argument is way out there.
    P.S. The year Knuckles Nilan was almost an All-Star was because Mike Milbury, of all people, thought it would be cool to have some blue collar guys in so we got Nilan and Brian Skrudland. John Scott was the infamous Internet fan vote. How many Canada Cups did those guys play in?
     
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  13. joestevens29 Registered User

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    I don't know. He didn't seem horrid as a coach and given the money he had to deal with he seemed to be an alright GM. What he did in 05-06 was quite special
     
  14. bone 5-14-6-1

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    Just throwing out there in, but does anyone find it odd that he finally gets the nod in a year where a first ballot Flame gets inducted. And to top it off Edmonton's current GM finally gets the nod for his work with Detroit.

    Almost like the committee was trolling Calgary. I'd be kind of annoyed if I were a Flames fan.
     
  15. Daryls Nose Registered User

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    Smart
     
  16. The Panther Registered User

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    Okay, then. So, see this: Is Kevin Lowe the worst defenseman in the HHoF?
     
  17. bone 5-14-6-1

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    O'Reilly has a Cup, Conn Smythe and a Selke and hasn't turned 30 yet, so I could see it reasonable to put him in depending on how the rest of his career plays out. I agree Staal and Seabrook would be stretches though.
     
  18. bone 5-14-6-1

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    I'd kind of disagree. He was decent as assistant coach and coach, but was promoted to GM way too quickly. I'd even say his first few years as GM were respectable as well, but once the Pronger fallout happened he never recovered and couldn't figure out when it was time to shut up and back away. That's tarnashed his legacy, but I'd argue every role he filled for the Oilers up until summer 2006 was fine (Comrie fiasco notwithstanding).
     
  19. BudBundy Registered User

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  20. Daryls Nose Registered User

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    You dont get the point? Really?
     
  21. BudBundy Registered User

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    I said I didn’t think Lowe was HHoF worthy but that comparing Lowe to Ray fricking Bourque to discuss worthiness was way out there. In response, he posts that thread link. Explain his point to me then.
     
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  22. McBooya42 Go home Todd, you're drunk!

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    Oh, so 7 appearances is appearing in "some" all star games lol. I call BS on that response man. 7 All Star games is not "some", and no matter how you look at it he was voted in. No doubt Ray Bourque also is a HHOFer, just for different reasons than Kevin.
     
  23. McBooya42 Go home Todd, you're drunk!

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    Oh, so you're saying that the HHOF committee is comparing Ray Bourque to Tom Johnson? Uh no dude. Players get added to the HHOF for more than just scoring points - as has been done many times before. Kevin was usually on the top pairing defending the top lines of the other team. You're wrong on this. Accept it and move on. <shrugs>
     
  24. DecadeofDarkness Waiting for playoffs..

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    people don't think he's a Hall of Famer and his numbers suggest that is the case

    but the HHOF has been letting in role players for years now...Lowe isn't some trend-setter here
     
  25. Daryls Nose Registered User

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    Kinda obvious but whatever.
    He's saying he thinks Lowe is the worst dman in the HOF and doesn't deserve to be there.
    Thought its kinda obvious .
    And he's right (about not belonging in the HoF). #2 (at best) ,#3 dmen shouldn't bee seen anywhere close. If he wasn't as fortunate as he was to be drafted by a team that had all those legit HoF, hes a step up from a journeyman dman
     

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