Kevin Lowe and Ken Holland (Builder) Join HHOF

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
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NYC
Kevin Lowe wasn’t the first “borderline” Hall of Famer and he certainly won’t be the last

I don't think he should be a borderline Hall of Famer in the first place.
Would a prime Lowe even be the best defenseman on the Oilers today?
 

Aerchon

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
10,491
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I love stay at home defenders. Tough shutdown guys.

Was a long time ago. I was very young but I don't remember Lowe being so good that anyone thought future Hall of fame. He was a distant 3rd or worse behind Coffee and Huddey for me.

A very good player on some incredible teams... not a hall of fame level guy imo.

Now I say that trying to be as unbiased as possible but Lowe is ingrained far more for being a major contributing factor to the decade of darkness and brutal nepotism even gifting his son a brutal ahl career, than he is for his relatively small but successful role on a stacked roster.
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
13,301
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Kevin Lowe wasn’t the first “borderline” Hall of Famer and he certainly won’t be the last

Calling Lowe boderline is pretty generous. For years, Doug Wilson was generally the 80s defenseman who was considered the borderline case. Wouldn't complain if he got in, but nobody advocated for it either. Lowe has to be considered a tier below Wilson, who was putting up 60-80 point seasons, won a Norris, and was a 3-time all star (the end of season all star team, not the all star game). Lowe was never close to doing any of those things.
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
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Probably
Tough to compare eras

Sure but my point is that he was a #2/#3 type Dman. Those guys, while good players, are dime a dozen. Do you think Hjalmarsson should be in the Hall? That's the type of player Lowe was.

The Hall of Fame should be reserved for players who, at the very least, were stars at their position for at least a couple of years. Lowe was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless. It should be an exclusive club limited to special players or at the very least, top line players. Lowe got in mainly because his team won a bunch of Cups.

Different positions and different times in their selection process but Alfredsson, Sundin and Fleury not being in while Lowe is just doesn't sit right.
 
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BudBundy

Registered User
May 16, 2005
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I’m torn. It’s very cool to have another Oiler in the Hall, and I am old enough to remember how good Kevin played. That said, I don’t think he should be in the Hall. Lowe was a hard rock defender and probably doesn’t get enough credit from the younger guys here, but he was purely defensive. To me you need to be an exceptional player, and not just “real good.” I didn’t think Carbonneau should’ve been in either, so I have to be consistent. Speaking of this years class, Wilson has no business in the Hall either. He is this years’ Bernie Federko.
 

CantHaveTkachev

Legends
Nov 30, 2004
49,452
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Calling Lowe boderline is pretty generous. For years, Doug Wilson was generally the 80s defenseman who was considered the borderline case. Wouldn't complain if he got in, but nobody advocated for it either. Lowe has to be considered a tier below Wilson, who was putting up 60-80 point seasons, won a Norris, and was a 3-time all star (the end of season all star team, not the all star game). Lowe was never close to doing any of those things.
Sure but my point is that he was a #2/#3 type Dman. Those guys, while good players, are dime a dozen. Do you think Hjalmarsson should be in the Hall? That's the type of player Lowe was.

The Hall of Fame should be reserved for players who, at the very least, were stars at their position for at least a couple of years. Lowe was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless. It should be an exclusive club limited to special players or at the very least, top line players. Lowe got in mainly because his team won a bunch of Cups.

Different positions and different times in their selection process but Alfredsson, Sundin and Fleury not being in while Lowe is just doesn't sit right.
If Role players like Guy Carbonneau get into the HHOF, then so does Lowe
 

BudBundy

Registered User
May 16, 2005
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Probably
Tough to compare eras
I’m trying to think who a modern equivalent to Lowe would be. Maybe Brent Seabrook if Seabrook was a bit smaller, but meaner and stayed effective a bit longer? Any thoughts from other old farts like me?
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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I have no issue with Wilson being in, because quite frankly even if we are looking at their post-player career as executives (we shouldn’t, but it was likely a consideration), he blows Lowe out of the water both ways.
 

BudBundy

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May 16, 2005
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I have no issue with Wilson being in, because quite frankly even if we are looking at their post-player career as executives (we shouldn’t, but it was likely a consideration), he blows Lowe out of the water both ways.
Meh. Wilson had one exception year, then a decade of being a turnstile with a big clapper.
 

Perfect_Drug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
15,389
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Montreal
I do think there were better players than Lowe omitted, but Lowe was better than people are making him out to be.

He was still a 7x All-Star.

In the pile of "good" players who entered the Hall the past few seasons.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
78,959
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Meh. Wilson had one exception year, then a decade of being a turnstile with a big clapper.

Seven 60 point seasons is still very good for a defenseman. Borderline HHOF, but it’s a closer case than Lowe.

Plus he actually has a Norris and 5 Norris nominations.
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
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I’m trying to think who a modern equivalent to Lowe would be. Maybe Brent Seabrook if Seabrook was a bit smaller, but meaner and stayed effective a bit longer? Any thoughts from other old farts like me?

Seabrook is a far better offensive defenseman than Lowe was.
Hjalmarsson is the more apt comparison from that team.
 

MettleMcOiler

5-14-6-1
Mar 9, 2011
4,235
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Edmonton
Congratulations to both! The first drafted oiler reaches the Hockey Hall of Fame. One of the greatest GMs of his time now guiding the Oilers to respectability.
Those are good names to put up there!!
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
22,936
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Shouldn't Lowe get a double induction as a builder too? :sarcasm:

Regardless, congrats to him... If a constant loser like Wilson can get in, what the heck, Lowe can go too :P
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
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If Role players like Guy Carbonneau get into the HHOF, then so does Lowe

Carbonneau was a bad induction, no question.

But even at that, Carbonneau was pretty damn important to the 1986 and 1993 Canadiens. Important enough that you can reasonably say they don't with without him. And when it came to his role, a primarily defensive center, he can legitimately claim to be one of the best ever with several Selke trophies.

I just don't think you can say these things about Lowe. He wasn't one of the best defensive dmen ever. And while he had an important secondary role on his Cup winning teams, I'm not sure you can point to any particular time where he was indispensable to them winning (though I'd be happy to hear examples).[/I]
 

ohheyhemsky

Regehr DooDoo
Nov 1, 2010
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Wayne Gretzky
Glenn Anderson
Jari Kurri
Paul Coffey
Grant Fuhr
Kevin Lowe
Mark Messier

All on one team. That has to solidify it as the best team ever, right?
 

BudBundy

Registered User
May 16, 2005
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Seabrook is a far better offensive defenseman than Lowe was.
Hjalmarsson is the more apt comparison from that team.
Nobody is the least bit leery to stand in front of the net with Hjalmarsson. Like at all. Lowe got your attention. He could outlet the puck and pinch at the blue line just fine.
 
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BudBundy

Registered User
May 16, 2005
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Carbonneau was a bad induction, no question.

But even at that, Carbonneau was pretty damn important to the 1986 and 1993 Canadiens. Important enough that you can reasonably say they don't with without him. And when it came to his role, a primarily defensive center, he can legitimately claim to be one of the best ever with several Selke trophies.

I just don't think you can say these things about Lowe. He wasn't one of the best defensive dmen ever. And while he had an important secondary role on his Cup winning teams, I'm not sure you can point to any particular time where he was indispensable to them winning (though I'd be happy to hear examples).[/I]
If Carbonneau played in Minnesota, you’d never have heard of him.
 

Samus44

Enjoy the ride.
Aug 5, 2010
9,317
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People acting outraged about Lowe need to calm down. He DID make 7 All Star Teams, win a Canada Cup, and 6 Stanley Cups, that's not exactly mediocre. When you have a top 4 dman playing with broken ribs and and a broken wrist that has a lot to do with winning as that's the kind of leadership that shows what it takes to win. He certainly had respectable stats for a Dman and played a very long time. Not many dmen play 19 years and nearly 1500 games (regular season and playoffs). Some of you need to separate POHO Lowe (he was a good GM) from player Lowe as not being able to do so is highly irrational. Doug Wilson's GM career has nothing to do with his induction despite it being 1 cup short of unreal.

I've always thought true defensive rocks were underrated as they have massive value and Lowe's career is a testament to that. You need players to fill every role, and he was an elite defensive player allowing the great offensive guys to flourish in pure offensive roles. He wore a letter throughout the dynasty and played big minutes, it's not like he was a passenger on the greatest team in NHL history he was a massive part. This is why you win cups and do everything you can to get it done as it adds legitimacy to your career, it stands as proof as to how great your accomplishments were. This is why you play with broken bones. Personally I think good for him and good for the game as this is a guy who sacrificed as much, if not more, than anyone to win those Cups and that IMO deserves recognition. Toughness is a VERY valuable skill in hockey and this dude was a 10/10. It's one thing to scrap playing 10 minutes a night, it's another to fight, battle, overcome injury all while playing a major role.

Less accomplished players than him are certainly in, like say Clark Gillies who was kind of like the Islanders version of Lowe but a forward, so it's not exactly a travesty. I actually like how hockey is willing to recognize a deeper and more diverse list of talents than other leagues as I believe in hockey value can be more subjective than in other sports given the variety of roles that need to be filled. The goal is to outscore the team to win and you need a diverse cast of players to do it and it's without doubt that Lowe provided an element very few in the game could at the level he did it at. Win 6 Cups and you probably deserve to be "overrated" as winning is ultimately the goal.
 

Samus44

Enjoy the ride.
Aug 5, 2010
9,317
2,088
Lowe getting in gives MacT a legitimate case. Slippery slope.

MacTavish made 7 All Star teams? MacTavish, a center, literally had 50 more regular season points and the same amount of playoff points.
 

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