WesMcCauley
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Proposal: Kevin Hayes for Brett Pesce+minor add?
- Thread starter WesMcCauley
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Canes middle-6 is already stacked. No real need for Hayes.
Conversely they only have Faulk, Pesce, and Ryan Murphy on the right side. They need Pesce.
Conversely they only have Faulk, Pesce, and Ryan Murphy on the right side. They need Pesce.
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Stephen Gionta
Boston College > Boston University
WesMcCauley
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Would want a little more as a NYR fan. Klein is a damn solid top 4 defensemen on a great contract.
WesMcCauley
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I would argue the signing of Vesey makes Hayes tradable. Lindberg could easily fill in as a 3rd line center.
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this^
Not given the commitment we made to Vesey.
=====
We have the Fs C could use, and they the young D.
mo thoughts later...
Shootertooter
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I agree and add, Hayes will remain a Ranger at least until Vesey signs long term.
Shootertooter
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To even consider this, the Rangers need a better return from Car. and I'm convinced the Rangers will not be trading Hayes.
WesMcCauley
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Cmon dont be ridicolous. The managment will trade Hayes if they think its a good move no matter what Vesey wants. Im not saying it will happen but its a business not a friendly team playing for fun. Good example is NYR trading both Brass and Hags. Thinking a guy just finishing college will keep the managment from making decisions they think is the best for the team is ridicolous. Vesey is a very solid player but he is not that important...
WesMcCauley
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Yep but Canes is also getting a player who scored 45 points in his rookie season.
Neither offer does anything for Carolina. They have enough 2nd through 4th line talent and won't be trading any of our young D for more. If you want to talk first line talent, we'll listen. Now, I'm not saying Pesce himself is worth a first line forward, but we'd rather package him to get a first line talent than get more middle sixers.
How so? There's nothing that points to him being a top 4 defenseman right now
Other than having played almost an entire season on the Canes 2nd-pair and acquitting himself well enough to have been considered adept in that role...as a rookie?
His minutes say thats a lie. He was #5 for 5vs5 ice time and irrelevant on special teams. What else you got?
It would be like me saying Darnell Nurse is a top pairing defenseman because thats where he played from December on. But I won't and you'd be hard pressed to find an Oilers fan that wants him starting in the NHL this upcoming season(he was that bad)
Value aside, not sure what the point is for either team. Rangers sell low on Hayes and deal him right after he helped woo his buddy to NY. Canes give up a promising young RHD when they're a bit light on right-side depth.
WesMcCauley
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Pesce average 1 minute of both SH and PP time per game. He played well in all situations, how is that "irrelevant on special teams?". After Liles was traded he was a full-time 2nd pairing RD and he played well. The Canes did nothing in the offseason to fill this spot, in fact they bought out his only competition in Wizniewski.
I'm always amazed by the number of people who will make confident statements about a guy who they have never watched play.
Roboturner913
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#4 in average ice time amongst Hurricanes d-men, once you take away Liles who was traded in mid-season. Even so, being #5 in ice time behind Faulk, Slavin, Hainsey and Liles is hardly shameful for a rookie. He got nearly a minute more ATOI than Hanifin last season, ask yourself why that is, and no the answer is not "because Hanifin sucks."
Look at his game logs for the second half, he hovered about 20 minutes most nights. That sure seems like a #4 d-man to me.
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Like a moth to a flame. Looking at total or Avg. TOI for a season when players were in and out of the line-up and guys were moved at the deadline to make your assessment clearly tells me you didn't watch the Canes play and don't know how Pesce was used. Pesce and Slavin hit the line-up after both Wiz and Murphy were injured. For the vast majority of the first half to 2/3rds of the season, the Canes D pairings were: 1) Hainsey-Faulk; 2) Liles-Pesce; 3) Hanifin-Slavin
Hanifin was very sheltered during this phase, as he should have been, but the Canes 2nd pairing was Liles-Pesce. Then, when Faulk got injured, the pairings were: 1) Hainsey-Slavin; 2) Liles-Pesce; 3) Hanifin - Jordan/Murphy
Then, Liles was traded and the pairings were: 1) Hainsey-Slavin, 2) Hanifin-Pesce, 3) Murphy-Jordan
At the end, when Faulk returned, (but wasn't 100%), after Faulk spent a couple of games on the bottom pairing, it was then 1) Slavin-Faulk, 2) Hanifin-Pesce, 3) Hainsey-Murphy.
So as you can see, because of the movement of players, TOI/Avg. TOI is not an accurate measure of where guys were slotted and how they were used. Pesce was on the 2nd pairing for the vast majority of the season with Liles and then Hanifin as his D partner. All of what I've stated above is backed up by Left Wing Lock's Line combinations.
http://leftwinglock.com/line-combin...=carolina-hurricanes&strength=EV&gametype=ALL
The 2nd most common D pairing in Carolina last season was Liles-Pesce and it was the 2nd pairing D.
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So...uh, yeah. About that.
I don't need to repeat BBA, AMO or Robo...but reality bears out that Pesce (our 2nd-pair RHD) is a second-pair defenseman because that's the role he actually played for the Canes last season while everybody else bounced around the lineup around him in search of chemistry and situational fit...and unlike Nurse, Pesce was actually pretty good.
We're excited to have him on our 2nd-pair this upcoming season...it's sMurphy on the 3rd that I'm not totally-comfortable with.
