Confirmed with Link: Kevin Hayes 5: signs 7 years, $50M

[BritainStix]

Monday is June 24th.

Ok? Your point?

 

[Alklha]

They have. And also paid major fines and penalties for doing so.

BLUES HIT WITH $1.5 MILLION FINE FOR TAMPERING WITH STEVENS

They haven't talked to Panarin but probably know by now which teams he wants to play for.

You do realise that the NHL knew that tampering was so widespread that they couldn't even try and stop it?

It's why the last CBA brought in the period to talk to upcoming free agents. It means they don't have to deal with awkward questions anymore, like how teams were able to sign UFAs to long term deals just minutes after free agency opened.

Does tampering still exist? Probably. It's just this negotiating period gives a plausible reason for how so many deals can be done so quickly when free agency opens.

 

[Curufinwe]

Ok? Your point?

That's before July 1st.

Seems like you're just putting your head in the sand regarding how the league works if you think the Flyers have already been having "preliminary discussions" with Panarin.

If teams could work on contracts with players who were property of other teams that easily and openly, why isn't Trouba signed by NY yet?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Teams in all sports leagues send out feelers to player’s representatives all the time before time periods when they’re legally allowed to talk start.

We all know it happens but proving it is another thing. It doesn’t mean there have been examples of teams that have been caught but it’s on such a small scale.

Teams know the price range it will be in to sign Panarin. So just seeing if he’s interested in you is the question that has been going on with teams & his camp to this point.

 

[deadhead]

Uh, none of this true. Niederreiter & Granlund cost practically nothing. Stone was well worth both the price paid for him and his extension. I throw the dice with EK every time. None of those players present the risk that Hayes does save maybe EK due to injury concerns, and the potential rewards are on par or far greater.

Stone was a 8yr/$9M contract and cost Brannstrom who was the #15 pick in 2017 and a 2020 2nd. That's not a risk?

Niederreiter was one of those "catch a bad GM on the right day" deals, you can't make those happen, you have to have the right player that the right GM is willing to overpay.

Grundland for Fiala is equally risky both ways.

EK is a total gamble.

Trouba is a one year rental for any time but NY, and we'll see if he signs with them.

And so on.

Hayes is not a huge risk, Duchene at 7x11 would be a much bigger risk, at worst Hayes will age into a bottom six forward who is overpaid for three years but can at least be a solid 3RW (25-30 ES points and good defense). Duchene could age into a mediocre scoring, bad defense forward in his out years.

 

[mja]

Stone was a 8yr/$9M contract and cost Brannstrom, #15 pick in 2017 and a 2020 2nd. That's not a risk?

Compared to dishing out 50 million to Kevin Hayes for 7 years with a NMC? No, not at all, and the potential rewards are much higher.

 

[Curufinwe]

Here's the Trouba story.

Jets move Trouba: Defenceman, first-rounder come back from Rangers

Although keeping Trouba for one more season to play out his contract before departing for nothing as an unrestricted free agent was considered, the Jets felt the best option was to secure a future asset and add a player that can step right into the lineup.

“It’s certainly something that doesn’t just happen. There’s been lots of groundwork on many different fronts that we’ve been looking at,” said Cheveldayoff, noting he did not grant other teams permission to negotiate a long-term deal with Trouba after trade talks heated up.

 

[deadhead]

Compared to dishing out 50 million to Kevin Hayes for 7 years with a NMC? No, not at all, and the potential rewards are much higher.

Hayes didn't cost a top prospect.
A top prospect on an ELC and bridge RFA deal could save you $3-4M a year over five years.

Stone is close to a sure thing, and he gave Vegas a discount he'd have never given us.
But he didn't come free.

 

[mja]

Hayes didn't cost a top prospect.
A top prospect on an ELC and bridge RFA deal could save you $3-4M a year over five years.

Stone is close to a sure thing, and he gave Vegas a discount he'd have never given us.
But he didn't come free.

Who said he came free? He cost a lot, but, and this is important, he’s more than worth it. I’d rather pay good money & assets for a high end player than pay iffy money for 2nd tier guy and give him a NMC to boot. I don’t get why that’s so hard to grasp.

And anyway, I’m not specifically saying we could / should have traded for Stone, I’m just rebutting your typical it’s impossible to improve the team via trade nonsense.

 

[deadhead]

And anyway, I’m not specifically saying we could / should have traded for Stone, I’m just rebutting your typical it’s impossible to improve the team via trade nonsense.

It's not impossible, but it's not easy or costless.
Braun improves this team, not as much as other players, not as costly as other players.

I think other than Voracek or JVR, where you'd get substantial cap relief over an extended period, it's too early to think about trading most of our assets (they're undervalued) and definitely not #11, unless you're getting a cost controlled player in their early to mid-20s.

Most trades don't add value to the contending team, they are usually attempts to improve chemistry and fit by trading valuable assets for a valued player.

 

[BritainStix]

That's before July 1st.

Seems like you're just putting your head in the sand regarding how the league works if you think the Flyers have already been having "preliminary discussions" with Panarin.

If teams could work on contracts with players who were property of other teams that easily and openly, why isn't Trouba signed by NY yet?

Because Trouba doesn't want to sign? Its his perogative. Using a one off case as an argument against preliminary discussion is just madness. It happens. It's fairly common knowledge.

 

[Ruck Over]

Been busy lately, finally checked CapFriendly and the contract has been updated from speculative to confirmed.

I dislike the NMC, and then restructured NTC, in the Hayes contract. In what was an overpayment in terms of duration and dollars, it seems illogical to also include restrictions on club options of player movement.

Hayes more than has the potential to live up to his contract, but I seriously doubt if he will ever be able to out play it. Heaven help him if he falls way under expectations.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Been busy lately, finally checked CapFriendly and the contract has been updated from speculative to confirmed.

I dislike the NMC, and then restructured NTC, in the Hayes contract. In what was an overpayment in terms of duration and dollars, it seems illogical to also include restrictions on club options of player movement.

Hayes more than has the potential to live up to his contract, but I seriously doubt if he will ever be able to out play it. Heaven help him if he falls way under expectations.

I got to watch Hayes play quite a bit and I like him. He will definitely make our better over the next several years. I'm happy to root for a team that is a playoff contender and I think the moves to date will accomplish that, but I have even less confidence in CF's ability to be a Stanley Cup contending effective GM.

I think he is smart and has a good plan for the franchise and what we need, but rightly or wrongly my impression of him is he isn't clever, is a weak negotiator and agents and other GM's take advantage of him. Just enough in a very competitive NHL to be always stuck in the mediocrity of good. To be fair he hired good coaches, got top FA's and made a lot of ok trades in Minny. I'm trying to be optimistic but he makes me nervous.

 

[Ruck Over]

I got to watch Hayes play quite a bit and I like him. He will definitely make our better over the next several years. I'm happy to root for a team that is a playoff contender and I think the moves to date will accomplish that, but I have even less confidence in CF's ability to be a Stanley Cup contending effective GM.

I think he is smart and has a good plan for the franchise and what we need, but rightly or wrongly my impression of him is he isn't clever, is a weak negotiator and agents and other GM's take advantage of him. Just enough in a very competitive NHL to be always stuck in the mediocrity of good. To be fair he hired good coaches, got top FA's and made a lot of ok trades in Minny. I'm trying to be optimistic but he makes me nervous.

Yeah, I agree about GMCF. He seemed to be chasing a pittance bet, with a nigh all-in follow-up bet. In terms of Texas Hold'em, I'm not sure if the big push came on a re-raise before the flop, but it certainly came well before the river, or the turn for that matter. It was a gamble, but not one that needed to be seen through to completion if this was going to be the final result.

I soured on Hextall heavily. But something that I think was remarkable was the contracts he did give out were beneficial to the Flyers and fair to the players. Him not handing out a single NMC/NTC is a remarkable feat that it only took CF one off-season to butcher.

The unintended consequence of this move means the Flyers are going to go 7-3 for protection slots of the entry draft. While protecting more players is better, I was of the hopeful opinion that the Flyers were really gonna go 4-4. Now, they still could. How bad of a season would NP or TK need to experience for Seattle not to select them if one is unprotected? How much faith would the Flyers still have in that player (and the player in the Flyers) if exposed and not taken?
Random missives, food for thought.



(Can Ghost play wing? Is that worth trying out this year?)

 

[deadhead]

They were probably going 7-3-1 in any case, since they'd still have to expose TK or Lindblom to protect Ghost at age 29 the season after the ED. Though it may depend on who they take at #11 and how players develop - if Farabee becomes a star LW they may be more willing to expose a good wing.

 

[Nabrules]

Everyone keeps ripping the signing, god I hope Hayes kills it with us. Needs to get 55-60 points next year!

 

[eramosat]

I welcome the centre, and the spending of available cap...but why in addition to the sweetheart $$ for the player...AND the max term (what?)...did he have to be given a NTC?!?! This guy is now here past the expansion draft, no matter what happens with the deep roster of prospects knocking on the door!

The deal is an F grade, spending money for the sake of it. Bias for action indeed...this signing checks every single one of the danger warning boxes and none of the "nice move" ones. I could go on...and talk about upsetting the team salary dynamic...it's like, why bother creating a culture.

I guess if the fans stop booing the team at home games that Comcast will be satisfied. Not sure this deal made much a difference there though.

 

[deadhead]

There's no middle ground around here.

Hayes was overpaid (like practically everyone who had leverage and didn't give a "hometown discount."
But he wasn't grossly overpaid, 6x6 would have been about right, 5x5 would have been a steal.
He's a 40-50 point 2C/3C/3RW who PKs, PP2, plays two way hockey, and he'll be 27 next year.

Hayes will help solidify the middle six, like Lindblom, he makes it easier to build three lines.
And that makes it easier to work in the kids when they're ready.
His versatility makes him worth more than just his scoring, but unless he takes another jump, he'll never be a true top six player.

He's not going to carry the offense, but with Giroux, Couts, Voracek, JVR, he doesn't need to either.

 

[Ghost Bear]

I know 'on pace' is iffy, but Hayes was on a 67.5 point pace on the Rangers last year before being traded. I only caught a couple of games, but there were glimpses that he was on the verge of the next level.

Here's hoping.

 

[deadhead]

We don't need Hayes at the next level, we need Hayes at this level consistently for at least 4-5 years (by his last 2-3 seasons, the projected increase in the cap after the TV deal will make him easy to move). That is, 40 ES, good defensive and PK play and help on PP2.

Give me that for 4-5 years and the move will substantially improve this team as the kids move in.

Couts - Patrick - Hayes down the middle, with Frost eventually pushing Hayes to 2/3RW.

 

[Striiker]

I know 'on pace' is iffy, but Hayes was on a 67.5 point pace on the Rangers last year before being traded. I only caught a couple of games, but there were glimpses that he was on the verge of the next level.

Here's hoping.

The problem with that is 1) it was a contract year where players are known to overachieve, and 2) it happened as soon as his old coach got fired... and look where both of them just ended up together.

Meanwhile many Rag fans have been saying AV misused Hayes by forcing him into a less offensive role and that’s why he didn’t produce better before last year. So it may not be a coincidence.

 

[He Is Knocking]

(Can Ghost play wing? Is that worth trying out this year?)

Please give it a shot, I'd love to see him on the wing.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Please give it a shot, I'd love to see him on the wing.

lolz out loudz

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I’m not worried with Hayes in regards to AV. He’s a different/older player now but more importantly he has a huge contract that’s going to afford him a lot of leeway for better or worse.

 

[Foggy14]

Its also madness to think that the flyers haven't had some preliminary discussions with Panarin in gauging if he was interested in joining.

Yeah, I read it on Hockeybuzzzzz.

We threw a big party for him ...

but his agent said: