Kessel vs. Cogliano

[HabLover]

Both 1987's entering the NCAA this year.

Kessel with Minnesota.....Cogliano with Michigan.

Both guys are about the same size.

Who will put up better numbers and what will the spread be?

Who's team will be better.....Minnesota or Michigan?

We know Kessel would not go #1 if he was in the draft this year and we know he should go #1 next year, so if Cogliano was eligible next year would he be a Top 5 or a Top 10 pick? Would he be able to push the top guys next year? We know this year Cogliano will be a 1st rounder, somewhere 15 - 30.

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[Roger's Pancreas*]

Both 1987's entering the NCAA this year.

Kessel with Minnesota.....Cogliano with Michigan.

Both guys are about the same size.

Who will put up better numbers and what will the spread be?

Who's team will be better.....Minnesota or Michigan?

We know Kessel would not go #1 if he was in the draft this year and we know he should go #1 next year, so if Cogliano was eligible next year would he be a Top 5 or a Top 10 pick? Would he be able to push the top guys next year? We know this year Cogliano will be a 1st rounder, somewhere 15 - 30.

Kessel will put up much better numbers. Minnesota seems to really be geared towards offense this year. Someone correct me, but one of the reasons Kessel chose Minnesota in the first place was so that he could really focus on offense.

 

[BHLCommish]

kessel and cogliano are not even in the same stratosphere

 

[HabLover]

kessel and cogliano are not even in the same stratosphere

I guess we'll see.....maybe I'm waaaaaay off base here!

 

[Hiishawk]

I never understand these questions asking where a current draft year player would go in next year's draft.

Do you mean IF Cogliano were a year younger than he actually is (and thus be a 1st time 06 eligible) but with the same level of achievement as now? Then yeah, maybe top 10.

Or do you mean IF Cogliano were to not opt in to this year's draft and be a year older than all the top 06 players next year? If that, then he'd likely be a second rounder.

It is unlikely that he will outscore Kessell- barring injuries to Kessell.

If neither of these two options above are what you mean, your question is comparing apples with oranges. It's like asking where Markus Naslund, Jean Ratelle Or Angelo Esposito would go in the 05 draft.

 

[Mystic]

Kessel is much better!!

We don't even know if Cogliano will be in the Top 5 or Top 10... For the moment he's nowhere!

 

[Legionnaire]

I think Minnesota will have a better team this year. Michigan lost of lot of key Seniors this last season, but does have some great recruits in Cogliano, Johnson, Bailey etc, but it's going to be hard to replace that experience. This should be Tambellini's year to shine if he doesn't go pro. He's going to be the main leader on that team, and should point accordingly. It should be interesting to see where Cogliano fits with Hensick next year. Hard to say how many points he'll get.

Minnesota on the other hand has most of their key players returning from last year, and had a great recruiting class as well. Kessel was a real coup and Wheeler should be a force for them as well.

If I had to pick between the two at this time I would take Minnesota as a heavy favorite for the National Championship.

 

[faucette78]

Obviously, Kessel is the better talent compared to Cogliano, eventhough I am a big fan of Cogliano. I watched him a lot this year with St. Mike's and he totally dominated that league.

My question is however, because I have only seen Kessel at the U18's and World Juniors, how is Kessel on the small ice? The only knocks that I have heard about Kessel is that there is a concern of his physical game. Can he hold up when the skating room is not there and the game is very physical? Any insights?

 

[MHNet]

Six teams in the WCHA have olympic sized ice, so that will work in Kessel's favor. I'll be interested to see how he fares when playing on the smaller surfaces, though he's good enough that I don't think it'll effect him much. I think he'll edge Cogliano in points.

Despite losing a lot of seniors, Michigan's offense should be strong again with Hensick and Tambellini leading the charge. It'll take them some time to gel and figure out the all important line chemistry with all the new faces, but they've got a strong core at the top. Freshmen have played an important role in the Wolverines' success and I can see Cogliano putting up 40+ points in his freshman campaign.

 

[cagney]

I expect Cogliano to put up 40+ points and 20 or so goals at most. I expect Kessel to put up 60+ points and 30 or so goals at least. Hab Fan has always been tempted to compare the two in the past but I just don't think there's any comparsion in terms of skill.

 

[HabLover]

I never understand these questions asking where a current draft year player would go in next year's draft.

Do you mean IF Cogliano were a year younger than he actually is (and thus be a 1st time 06 eligible) but with the same level of achievement as now? Then yeah, maybe top 10.

Or do you mean IF Cogliano were to not opt in to this year's draft and be a year older than all the top 06 players next year? If that, then he'd likely be a second rounder.

It is unlikely that he will outscore Kessell- barring injuries to Kessell.

If neither of these two options above are what you mean, your question is comparing apples with oranges. It's like asking where Markus Naslund, Jean Ratelle Or Angelo Esposito would go in the 05 draft.

It all comes down to these two guys being 1987 born. There is no way they should be in different draft classes, the NHL needs to realize this and it sounds like it will be changed in the new CBA.

I don't know what you've concocted with all your 'do you means', but you're reading way too much into my comparison of having both guys in either this year's draft or next year's. Bottom line is, both Kessel and Cogliano are the same AGE and should be in the same draft year(2005) and from that it's quite obvious Kessel would not go #1, obviously Crosby will, and it's quite apparent at this point, Cogliano is slated somewhere between 15 - 30. It has nothing to do with Cogliano being a year younger or opting in or out!

All I'm trying to do here is compare these two guys, but because they are split by two different drafts it makes it a bit difficult. All 87's should be in the same draft no questions asked. All the 88's should be in next year's draft and so on.

 

[bryan579]

its not very difficult when if kessel was in the 2005 draft he would probably go #2, 3 at max while cogliano is still mid round or wherever

 

[West]

It all comes down to these two guys being 1987 born. There is no way they should be in different draft classes, the NHL needs to realize this and it sounds like it will be changed in the new CBA.

All I'm trying to do here is compare these two guys, but because they are split by two different drafts it makes it a bit difficult. All 87's should be in the same draft no questions asked. All the 88's should be in next year's draft and so on.

They have the draft age divide set in Sept because it's basically your age at the start of the hockey season.

Your always going to have kids who are in different drafts and are only a few days difference in age regardless of what you change the draft cut-off date to. Personally I think the date they have as the cut-off now makes as much or more sense than any other dates.

The only reason I can think of to change the dates would be so that it's easier to scan through birthdays and automatically now who is in what draft which is a pretty weak reason IMO.

 

[surixon]

Id just like to add, that although Kessel is a little younger, Coglino has outscored him at every major tournament that they both have been at, ie the under 17s and under 18 last sumer. So im not really sure that it is as cut and dry as some people think. People forget that Andrew Coglino could very well have been or will be a top 10 pick this year. It's largly due to his lower level of play that hes ranked to go mid to late first round.

 

[HabLover]

They have the draft age divide set in Sept because it's basically your age at the start of the hockey season.

Your always going to have kids who are in different drafts and are only a few days difference in age regardless of what you change the draft cut-off date to. Personally I think the date they have as the cut-off now makes as much or more sense than any other dates.

The only reason I can think of to change the dates would be so that it's easier to scan through birthdays and automatically now who is in what draft which is a pretty weak reason IMO.

The WHL doesn't do it that way and were only talking a couple of months here bud if a guy starts the year in the NHL and has a late B-day.

In the dub, there are many, many players who start the season at 15, but soon turn 16 before the season has barely started!

 

[Form and Substance]

Id just like to add, that although Kessel is a little younger, Coglino has outscored him at every major tournament that they both have been at, ie the under 17s and under 18 last sumer. So im not really sure that it is as cut and dry as some people think. People forget that Andrew Coglino could very well have been or will be a top 10 pick this year. It's largly due to his lower level of play that hes ranked to go mid to late first round.

I'm pretty sure Kessel's turned the corner this year and that the league in which Cogliano played in hampered his development quite a bit.

 

[cagney]

Id just like to add, that although Kessel is a little younger, Coglino has outscored him at every major tournament that they both have been at, ie the under 17s and under 18 last sumer. So im not really sure that it is as cut and dry as some people think. People forget that Andrew Coglino could very well have been or will be a top 10 pick this year. It's largly due to his lower level of play that hes ranked to go mid to late first round.

The last tournament they played against each other was the U17s. Kessel wasn't at last summer's U18 World Cup. Kessel's performances at the past two U18 World Championships were way more impressive than Cogliano's performance at the U18 World Cup. When you look at regular season performance the gap is even larger.

I just don't see how anyone can try and argue that there's a favorable comparison between thier respective skill levels. Back when they were 15? Sure. But not now.

 

[Legionnaire]

Id just like to add, that although Kessel is a little younger, Coglino has outscored him at every major tournament that they both have been at, ie the under 17s and under 18 last sumer. So im not really sure that it is as cut and dry as some people think. People forget that Andrew Coglino could very well have been or will be a top 10 pick this year. It's largly due to his lower level of play that hes ranked to go mid to late first round.

True, but Cogliano was not at the U20's. Kessel played a big role for team USA there. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Cogliano fan, and I agree with you about his level of competition effecting his draft position, but I still think Kessel has accomplished more at his age than Cogliano; that matters.

 

[HabLover]

I'm pretty sure Kessel's turned the corner this year and that the league in which Cogliano played in hampered his development quite a bit.

Cogliano definitely didn't get the exposure that he could have if he had played in the OHL, NCAA or such. To say he hampered his development quite a bit is ridiculous! Playing Junior A/B at 16 and 17 didn't hurt Mr. Pouliot too bad, as he's widely considered the #2 overall pick this year. Cogliano has the skills and has had them since he was young and one year playing Junior A isn't going to make a difference at all. Now if the guy was injured all year and couldn't play then that may have hampered his development.

 

[surixon]

True, but Cogliano was not at the U20's. Kessel played a big role for team USA there. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Cogliano fan, and I agree with you about his level of competition effecting his draft position, but I still think Kessel has accomplished more at his age than Cogliano; that matters.

Ohh I totaly agree with this assesment, Kessel is the better player right now, I was just throwing that out to show that Coglino does have the skills to compete with the likes of Kessell Brule ect... but is not as polished and is playing in a leage wiith really no exposure. It would of been interesting to have seen him in the under 18s this spring, but unfortunatly he was injured.

 

[HabLover]

The last tournament they played against each other was the U17s. Kessel wasn't at last summer's U18 World Cup. Kessel's performances at the past two U18 World Championships were way more impressive than Cogliano's performance at the U18 World Cup. When you look at regular season performance the gap is even larger.

I just don't see how anyone can try and argue that there's a favorable comparison between thier respective skill levels. Back when they were 15? Sure. But not now.

Yes, Cogliano outscored Kessel and led his team to a gold medal at the U17's in early '04. They weren't 15, they were 16 turning 17. Don't try to take anything away from what Cogliano may have accomplished. Kessel was on a very strong Team USA club that was beaten by several regional Canadian teams at the U17's. That tourney was played on the North American size ice and not the European size ice. That could have worked against Kessel? I was at that tourney and I was way more impressed with Cogliano than any Team USA forward(including Kessel) then, although Gerbe was impossible not to take note of. Cogliano led the U18 World Junior Cup in scoring less than 12 months ago and helped lead Canada to a convincing gold medal. And that was with the likes of Brule, O'Marra, Little, Bertram and co. Unfortunately, Cogliano was still playing hockey this past April and was unable to participate at the U18's, where he would have most definitely of gone head to head w/Kessel.

 

[cagney]

You always bring up the U17s in an attempt to put Kessel down. I remember Jeff Tambellini lead Team Pacific to the final game at the U17s a few years back and was one of the top players/scorers in the tournament. Does that make him better than other '84s like Rick Nash and Eric Staal who also played in that tournament but didn't get the same results?

Regardless, the fact is that what Kessel's done in tournaments since has been more impressive than any '87 in the world (Crosby hasn't played in an U18 tournament since two summers ago). Believe it or not, players develop over time and Kessel has just gotten better and better.

 

[HabLover]

You always bring up the U17s in an attempt to put Kessel down. I remember Jeff Tambellini lead Team Pacific to the final game at the U17s a few years back and was one of the top players/scorers in the tournament. Does that make him better than other '84s like Rick Nash and Eric Staal who also played in that tournament but didn't get the same results?

Regardless, the fact is that what Kessel's done in tournaments since has been more impressive than any '87 in the world (Crosby hasn't played in an U18 tournament since two summers ago). Believe it or not, players develop over time and Kessel has just gotten better and better.

I am not sitting here saying Cogliano is better than Kessel. There is no doubt in my mind that Kessel has been in a few more high profile tourneys and has done extremely well! The fact Cogliano hasn't played in as many international tournaments as Kessel and Kessel has excelled puts him ahead of Cogliano in anyone's books! My original post wasn't comparing the two, rather how they would both fare in the NCAA this year and what the point total spread between the two would be?

To sit here and say Cogliano has developed or is the better player right now wouldn't be too smart, but I do believe the difference between the two isn't that far off. I guess we'll have a better idea this fall once the season starts. The 2006 WJC will be a good test for Cogliano as well.

 

[Form and Substance]

Cogliano definitely didn't get the exposure that he could have if he had played in the OHL, NCAA or such. To say he hampered his development quite a bit is ridiculous! Playing Junior A/B at 16 and 17 didn't hurt Mr. Pouliot too bad, as he's widely considered the #2 overall pick this year. Cogliano has the skills and has had them since he was young and one year playing Junior A isn't going to make a difference at all. Now if the guy was injured all year and couldn't play then that may have hampered his development.

Pouliot was in a situation where he didn't need have any external pressures thrusting him into the spotlight too soon. Cogliano was touted as a possible top 10 pick prior to the start of the season, had he moved to the OHL, where his skills might have translated better, and dominated at that level, then yes the two might be comparable but as it is, it's Kessel and by a fair margin. This coming from a huge Cogliano fan.

 

[Onion Boy]

I think the question was really more who will produce better in the NCAA. Any college team recruiting these players would definately pick Cogliano over Kessel simply because Cogliano will probably play for 4 years while Kessel may only play for one.

Also, Cogliano has a skillset that with work great in the NCAA, even if it may not adapt well to the NHL. He may put up better stats than Kessel.