nomorekids said:
Sorry to get off topic but if the few cross border games between top CIAU and NCAA teams over the years are indicative, it would be at best a "notch".
Kessel to OHL smarter route!!
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Sorry to get off topic but if the few cross border games between top CIAU and NCAA teams over the years are indicative, it would be at best a "notch".
There are some very intelligent players to come out of the CHL and very stupid players to come out of NCAA (and vice versa). Earning a college degree while playing doesn't guarantee you are smart.
However, earning a college degree IS a good idea unless you are a top notch player. If you are somebody who could greatly benefit from becoming a pro at 22/23 instead of 20... NCAA is your best bet.
But to repeat, scholly packages for a kid like Kessel are a scam because he'd never take it unless he suffered a career ending injury while playing in the CHL in which case the degree will be huge.
However, earning a college degree IS a good idea unless you are a top notch player. If you are somebody who could greatly benefit from becoming a pro at 22/23 instead of 20... NCAA is your best bet.
But to repeat, scholly packages for a kid like Kessel are a scam because he'd never take it unless he suffered a career ending injury while playing in the CHL in which case the degree will be huge.
daver said:
Good arguement
To start off, CIAU is now the CIS and has been for two or three years now.
To continue, the first week of the season:
Merrimack 5 vs. St. Thomas 2
North Dakota 8 vs. Manitoba 3
Michigan 12 vs. Windsor 1
UMass 2 vs. St. Francis 1 (ot)
the following day...
Miami 4 vs. Windsor 1
UMass-Lowell 4 vs. St. Thomas 4 (ot)
Providence 4 vs. St. Francis 1
the following day...
Nebraska-Omaha 7 vs. Manitoba 0
Just for the heck of it, let's go to the next week...
Denver 6 vs. Windsor 0
Minnesota 7 vs. Calgary 2
Western Michigan 8 vs. Brock 1
Lake Superior 15 vs. Toronto 1
Army 3 vs. Ryerson 2
Bentley 3 vs. Wilfrid Laurier 1
Michigan Tech 4 vs. Lakehead 1
Colorado College 6 vs. Windsor 1
ah, what the heck... one more week can't hurt can it?
Wayne State 3 vs. Queens 1
Minnesota St. 5 vs. Calgary 2
Alaska-Anchorage 5 vs. Grant MacEwan 1
York 1 vs. Northern Michigan 0 (first win)
Canisus 4 vs. Ottawa 3
Meryhurst 4 vs. Brock 0
Quinnipiac 6 vs. Wilfrid Laurier 5 (ot)
Army 5 vs. Ryerson 1
Boston College 7 vs. New Brunswick 2
ok fine, one more day
Michigan St. 7 vs. Toronto 2
Vermont 7 vs. Trois-Rivieres 0
Air Force 3 vs. Windsor 2 (ot)
Since the following week a CIS team squeeked out another win, I'll provide that week as well...
Bowling Green 3 vs. Windsor 2 (ot)
Alabama-Huntsville 4 vs. Western Ontario 3
Connecticut 3 vs. Concordia (Que.) 2
Holy Cross 6 vs. Concordia (Que.) 1
Western Ontario 2 vs. Alabama-Huntsville 1 (TWO wins)
Ok, I'll keep going...
Clarkson 4 vs. Western Ontario 2
McGill 3 vs. Yale 2 (THREE wins)
Dartmouth 3 vs. Western Ontario 1
Cornell 4 vs. McGill 0
Princeton 9 vs. Windsor 2
Yale 7 vs. Western Ontario 2
Harvard 2 vs. Windsor 2 (ot)
Manitoba 5 vs. Bemidji 3 (FOUR wins)
And some more...
Alaska-Fairbanks 5 vs. British Columbia 0
Alaska-Fairbanks 5 vs. British Columbia 3
So here are the stats from this year...37-4-2 for NCAA teams vs. CIS programs. Actually looking back I think 3 or 4 of these teams (Lakehead) are D-3 programs in the US but you still get the idea.
To add, most of the NCAA teams cycled their goalies at some points playing all 3.
Looking at the current top-10 from the CIS out of the teams that participated in these exhibition games 4 are ranked in the top 10 and their record combined was 3-8-0. The 8 losses came against: North Dakota (16th in the country), Nebraska-Omaha (19th), Minnesota (9th), Minnesota St. (NR), Alabama-Huntsville (NR), Cornell (2nd), and Yale (NR).
And the CIS wins came against: the 14th ranked program in the country (Northern Michigan, 1-0 loss to York), an unranked team receiving no poll votes (Alabama-Huntsville, 2-1 loss to Western Ontario), another unranked team receiving no poll votes (Yale, 3-2 loss to McGill), and another unranked program receiving no poll votes (Bemidji State, 5-3 loss to Manitoba).
So based on recent exhibition games between the two associations... what would you like to conclude?
Either path (NCAA or CHL) it wont matter, Kessel will turn out to be a good player either way.
One route isnt better than the other. Depends on what the player wants to do.
If you're a good player you will make it regardless of where you play.
One route isnt better than the other. Depends on what the player wants to do.
If you're a good player you will make it regardless of where you play.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Bobby Ryan is a good example, so far...one of the reasons why he came to Owen Sound was because he felt it would better suit his development for the pro game.
Owen Sound has set up a top notch school program, that includes correspondence courses with any Canandian University...I believe this is also how they lured Jon Lehun out of St. Cloud State.
I think there's a bit of a myth surrounding the CHL and education...and I know it's always an interesting debate but I would suggest that while most NCAA players are older/physically mature (although most people stop growing at 18) they aren't necessarily as skilled as CHL players...
Owen Sound has set up a top notch school program, that includes correspondence courses with any Canandian University...I believe this is also how they lured Jon Lehun out of St. Cloud State.
I think there's a bit of a myth surrounding the CHL and education...and I know it's always an interesting debate but I would suggest that while most NCAA players are older/physically mature (although most people stop growing at 18) they aren't necessarily as skilled as CHL players...
CHL option: Live in cosmopolitan Saginaw, Michigan. Spend years on bus staring out over empty Canadian prairie. Learn to enjoy "poutine." Wonder if there are any restaurants that aren't Tim Horton's.
NCAA option: Sorority girls.
NOT A HARD DECISION.
NCAA option: Sorority girls.
NOT A HARD DECISION.
CharlieGirl
Thank you Mr. Snider
Cute...Funkymoses said:
But the last time I checked, Ontario was fresh out of prairie land.... and it's not empty - there are tons of polar bears and igloos to see as soon as you cross the bridge
Brock
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firstroundbust
lacks explosiveness
CharlieGirl
Thank you Mr. Snider
You'll probably be surprised.... most nights, Saginaw plays better than their record shows.DeuceUNO said:I am going there next week to watch them play
firstroundbust
lacks explosiveness
Charlie_Girl49 said:
I'll get to see Jeff Carter too, as the Spirit play Sault Ste. Marie...this is gonna be my first taste of OHL hockey, or even the CHL period...
NCAA Hockey Fan said:
Blah... excuse me. Thought this was the original post saying Kariya was a bum student, etc., etc.
I apologize... YOU were dead on!
Schlep Rock,
Your post about US Universities vs. Canadian Universities was very impressive
. Stupid facts always seems to get in the way. 
Your post about US Universities vs. Canadian Universities was very impressive
. Stupid facts always seems to get in the way. Schlep Rock?
Nice stats on the CIS-NCAA.
But, how many of those games occured on Canadian soil, and how many were with Canadian teams playing games in back-to-back nights on the road?
Granted the lower level CIS Schools would have difficulty competing but I don't see #1 Alberta or #2 Saskatchewan on your list. These teams are made up of almost exclusively WHL players, and I can guarantee you that they could hang with your NCAA teams.
In fact the Alberta Golden Bears beat the Edmonton Oilers Rookies 8-2 in the fall, with an Oilers team that had seven guys off their AHL team, two or three first-round draft choices, AND several NCAA grads in their lineup.
Alberta as an example is 6-3 in their last 10 years against NCAA schools with only one of those nine games being played at home.
What would be really interesting is if say Alberta and Saskatchewan coughed up some cash and brought in a DU or CC to Edmonton and Saskatoon to play at Rexall and Saskatchewan Place, but alas I think NCAA Schools would view it as having far this as having far too much to lose.
As I have stated elsewhere on Hockey's future, the
Nice stats on the CIS-NCAA.
But, how many of those games occured on Canadian soil, and how many were with Canadian teams playing games in back-to-back nights on the road?
Granted the lower level CIS Schools would have difficulty competing but I don't see #1 Alberta or #2 Saskatchewan on your list. These teams are made up of almost exclusively WHL players, and I can guarantee you that they could hang with your NCAA teams.
In fact the Alberta Golden Bears beat the Edmonton Oilers Rookies 8-2 in the fall, with an Oilers team that had seven guys off their AHL team, two or three first-round draft choices, AND several NCAA grads in their lineup.
Alberta as an example is 6-3 in their last 10 years against NCAA schools with only one of those nine games being played at home.
What would be really interesting is if say Alberta and Saskatchewan coughed up some cash and brought in a DU or CC to Edmonton and Saskatoon to play at Rexall and Saskatchewan Place, but alas I think NCAA Schools would view it as having far this as having far too much to lose.
As I have stated elsewhere on Hockey's future, the
CharlieGirl
Thank you Mr. Snider
Nice stats... but the NCAA vs CIS argument is an easy one. No question the NCAA is a higher level of competition - the vast majority of the top players in Canada aren't playing in the CIS. CIS teams are made up of (a) players who were never drafted to a CHL team, (b) players who played CHL and were not drafted/signed by an NHL team, and (c) players who chose education over playing UHL/ECHL or a comparable league.
All I ever said in the beginning was the OHL would be the SMARTER route. And it would be. The college season is going to done for some schools very soon and Major Junior doesnt even start playoffs for three weeks. The OHL is bigger, tougher and more accustomed to what kessel will be doing very shortly, playing in the NHL. Al lot of players mature later and thats why they take the NCAA route or want to serisouly stay for 4 years (Kessel = NO CHANCE), Kessel is awesome now and thats why he should go OHL I wasnt ripping on the NCAA nor was I saying that all the players dont go to school. I only said half do that, thats not all in my book. And NCAA HOCKEY FAN. Do you know the facts? What was Kariya's major at Maine? I know, you should go find out. I sure you could have been an honor student with the classes he took. I know the facts...I just dont want to be the guy to bring out all the stories.....
There is no question in my mind that a team like Alberta could easily be a top team in NCAA. Most of there players were very accomplished at the WHL level. Furthurmore, they are older than their NCAA counterparts. The top talents in the NCAA may be more skilled, but they are also younger than the guys who play for Alberta.Charlie_Girl49 said:
How old are these CIS guys the gophers as do many other teams in the NCAA have 25 year olds. HS seniors and juniors that play 3-4 yrs in USHL. Or in the gophers case a transfer student Jerid Reinholz 79 born. Ross Carlson 82 born sophmore from WI. Are the two that ring a bell right away.
OHLArenaGuide
it's dot com
Brock said:Hey Hey Hey, we got CHL groupies to combat that!
...if you're into 15-year-olds, that is.
Horsehouse
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http://www.bears.ualberta.ca/content.cfm?seas=6&act=72&div=0&team=0&pt=roster_pubMN_Gopher said:
Virtually everyone on the Bears played at the CHL level until their eligibility ran out.Upon furthur reflection, given the ages, level of play that the Bears played in before they came to the Bears & how good they were in the CHL, I think a team like the Bears would handle a top NCAA team rather easily.
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