Kessel over Crosby???

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#66

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SuperMan313 said:
Kessel has been over-hyped by the American media, Kessel is a great player but c'mon he's definately not in a league with Crosby, and Ovechkin.

I don't even think Kessel will go 1st overall I think Erik Johnson will.
IMO Kessel is overhyped by the media in general. The American media doesn't care enough about hockey to overhype a player.
 

MN_Gopher

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Comparing these two is almost like comparing Jagr and Modano. Using only stats. I realize size and other stuff is involed. Who would you rather have? Modano will play great D and still score. Jagr will score more. Modano is at alomst exactly a point a game. Jagr is a tad over 1.25. Or 20 points more a year. If Kessel pans out i think he will be the better of the two in the O zone. And could very easily score more points. I think that what scouts are looking at. And with the "new" NHL a guy like Kessel will only rise on many lists. You can go down the list of all hockey attributes, Kessel will win some, Crosby will win some and AO will win some. I would take Crosby or AO and then Kessel.
 

VOB

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MN_Gopher said:
Now that i think about it.
Crosby/Yzerman
AO/Forsberg
Kessel/Bure

Scouts have long compared Crosby to Forsberg with a tad more offensive upside, meaning a complete player.

I do like your Kessel to Bure comparison though.
 

heygarebear

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Blues could use a guy like Kessel or Frolik.. or whoever in the top 5.. but we definately need a blue chipper.. Oshie and Kessel (hopefully) would be a nice start
 

Quiet Robert

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#66 said:
I would say Afinagenov. Kovy is pretty strong.

I think it's closer than that. Comparing Forsberg to Afinogenov is a joke (in terms of how much better Forsberg is imo) and right now Kessel/Crosby is not that lopsided.

The Forsberg to Kovalev comparison seems to be pretty apt in describing the impact each player might have. Kovalev is a very talented player, but he's not in Forsberg's category.

Kessel might not be the clear cut no.1, but he is very talented. With that being said, at this point, I don't think anybody would choose him over Crosby considering what Crosby has been able to do at the NHL level. We don't know what impact Kessel will have in the NHL, and until he does, it's hard to choose him. (bird in hand etc...). Even then, I have my doubts if Kessel will get that close to Crosby.
 

AmericanDream

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AgentNaslund said:
i feel sorry for Kessel. American Media once again is blowing Kessel out of porportion. First it was "America's anserw to Sydney Crosby." So your saying Kessel is in Crosby's leauge :biglaugh:

now they say some scouts will Kessel over Crosby? Its funny how people wanna make things up just to make things sound better then they are. Kessel is not even in that leauge of Crosby, Ovechkin. These homers come out of nowhere. 2005 first rounder was dominated by Canadians, 2006 first rounder will once again be dominated by Canadians. Since this is the only period the States is actually bringing up some solid prospects now they think, they are closing the gap. Wow. Very funny actually. Kessel is the in the Eric Staal, Jason Spezza Kovalchuk leauge. Not Crosby or Ovechkin. Stupid stupid American Media. I be pissed if I was an American hockey fan. Crosby was able to dominate hockey at every level hes played at. Even at the NHL level hes leading his team in scoring that is loaded with superstars. Kessel cant even do that at the Colleage level.

To every 1 Phil Kessel they develope, Canada has developed 20 players in that leauge in the past.

as for the some scouts chosing Kessel over Crosby, unless they tell us which scouts exactly said that, from which teams they work for, its all b.s. Anyone thats seem em both play, if your not Pejorative Slured u would chose Crosby over Kessel easily. Its like chosing Modanno over Grezky in their primes.

I feel sorry for Kessel for all they media hype trying to make him sound like hes in the same breath as Ovechkin and Crosby.

There must be a lot of inbreeding where this a$$clown is from. I think I am going to use this quote as 2-ply and wipe my crack with it. Are you for real? Does mommy know your on the computer unsupervised again? Good lord!
 

Namso

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AgentNaslund said:
i feel sorry for Kessel. American Media once again is blowing Kessel out of porportion. First it was "America's anserw to Sydney Crosby." So your saying Kessel is in Crosby's leauge :biglaugh:

now they say some scouts will Kessel over Crosby? Its funny how people wanna make things up just to make things sound better then they are. Kessel is not even in that leauge of Crosby, Ovechkin. These homers come out of nowhere. 2005 first rounder was dominated by Canadians, 2006 first rounder will once again be dominated by Canadians. Since this is the only period the States is actually bringing up some solid prospects now they think, they are closing the gap. Wow. Very funny actually. Kessel is the in the Eric Staal, Jason Spezza Kovalchuk leauge. Not Crosby or Ovechkin. Stupid stupid American Media. I be pissed if I was an American hockey fan. Crosby was able to dominate hockey at every level hes played at. Even at the NHL level hes leading his team in scoring that is loaded with superstars. Kessel cant even do that at the Colleage level.

To every 1 Phil Kessel they develope, Canada has developed 20 players in that leauge in the past.

as for the some scouts chosing Kessel over Crosby, unless they tell us which scouts exactly said that, from which teams they work for, its all b.s. Anyone thats seem em both play, if your not Pejorative Slured u would chose Crosby over Kessel easily. Its like chosing Modanno over Grezky in their primes.

I feel sorry for Kessel for all they media hype trying to make him sound like hes in the same breath as Ovechkin and Crosby.

I'm canadian and u have no idea what ur talking about. First of all, the 2005 draft was dominated by Americans. Canada might have had the numbers, but US had all the bluechippers (except Crosby), 2006 looks like another strong year for US, and 2007 is not looking that bad.

And to say that for every Kessel, there are 20 canadians is just homerism. I would say over 10 years, for every Kessel there are maybe 2-3 canadians and 1-2 euros.

Crosby is better than Kessel, but Crosby was placed in the perfect environment entering the NHL, i dont think any other prospect had it so easy. He was tutored by Lemieux and 4 other hallof famers, the team wasn't put on his soldier like Ovechkin was, and he plays in a system which is offense-oriented at the perfect time that the NHL decides to open up the game.

Right now Im more impressed with OVechkin than either.
 

rigger

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So does this mean that Cogliano is better then Crosby. It must, I mean he has better stats then Kessel. And Kessel is better then Crosby. I'm pumped, the oilers have the next better then gretzky.

This is crazy. Kessel is a very very good prospect. He has the chance to be a super star in the NHL, but let's not forget what Crosby has done already at the ripe old age of 2 months older. He is already in the top 20 players in the NHL. It is not a comparison, it is more of a measuring stick, how close can he get to being as good as Sid the Kid.
 

Jaded-Fan

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Bobby Orr's Knees said:
I beg to differ. Crosby has been advertised as the next Gretzky. So far I hardly see the same type of impact. Great player, but better the advertised? I don't think so.


Just am curious . . . what more did you or anyone expect of him?

Tied for 11th in scoring (with LeCavalier by the way) with 5 goals, 14 assists for 19 points in 15 games. Still on pace for just over 100 points for the year (102 points, 27 goals and 75 assists). On a pace to draw what would have to be something over 200 penalties this year too as defenseman can not keep up and keep hauling him down. What is that worth in the new NHL? Oh yeah, he turned 18 exactly three months ago yesterday.

And because Crosby has gotten so much grief here, it does give me a smile to point out that AO is tied for between 33rd and 40th in the league (15 points), Zach Parise (I still hear the chant over-rated in my head from the NJ crowd aimed at Crosby when the two went head to head) is tied for between 275 and 300 in the league, and Jeff Carter, another we heard so much of as a Calder Candidate is also between 275 and 300 in the league (5 points each). All those are a couple of years or so older than Crosby.

Can anyone with a straight face say that they even expected this much of him? I am not calling him the next Gretzky, never have. But he certainly has proven to be deserving of every bit of the hype.
 
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Mothra

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Jaded-Fan said:
it does give me a smile to point out that AO is tied for between 33rd and 40th in the league (15 points

Stats are just like any tool.....misused and they give bad results....what would you expect from AO when his team is the 3rd worst offensive team in the NHL, a team that until Sunday never scored more than 3 goals in a game or had a 2 goal lead, as opposed to Pit who is in the top 10 in terms of goals per game.

Crosby is indeed 11th or so in scoring, which is very impressive....with two teammates 1 point behind and another 2 points behind....oh, but thats right.....the quality of teammates has little to do with this, neither does the fact 2 assists can be awarded for every goal

last I looked Ovechkin was in the top 10 in goals...and Crosby is where? 68th

this is no knock on Crosby...but simply saying Ovechkin is 33rd in scoring...haha....is pretty ignorant and below your usual standards

EDIT:Typo
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mothra said:
Stats are just like any tool.....misused and they give bad results....what would you expect from AO when his team is the 3rd worst offensive team in the NHL, a team that until Sunday never scored more than 3 goals in a game or had a 2 goal lead, as opposed to Pit who is in the top 10 in terms of goals per game.

Crosby is indeed 11th or so in scoring, which is very impressive....with two teammates 1 point behind and another 2 points behind....oh, but thats right.....the quality of teammates has little to do with this, neither does the fact 2 assists can be awarded for every goal

last I looked Ovechkin was in the top 10 in goals...and Crosby is where? 68th

this is no knock on Crosby...but simply saying Ovechkin is 33rd in scoring...haha....is pretty ignorant and below your usual standards

EDIT:Typo

'And because Crosby has gotten so much grief here ...........'

Just could not resist having some fun . . . ;)
 

KariyaIsGod*

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Namso said:
I'm canadian and u have no idea what ur talking about. First of all, the 2005 draft was dominated by Americans. Canada might have had the numbers, but US had all the bluechippers (except Crosby), 2006 looks like another strong year for US, and 2007 is not looking that bad.

And to say that for every Kessel, there are 20 canadians is just homerism. I would say over 10 years, for every Kessel there are maybe 2-3 canadians and 1-2 euros.

Crosby is better than Kessel, but Crosby was placed in the perfect environment entering the NHL, i dont think any other prospect had it so easy. He was tutored by Lemieux and 4 other hallof famers, the team wasn't put on his soldier like Ovechkin was, and he plays in a system which is offense-oriented at the perfect time that the NHL decides to open up the game.

Right now Im more impressed with OVechkin than either.

Right...

Coming into the NHL and playing on Mario Lemieux's team while everyone expects you to be the next Gretzky when you are 18 sure is easy... :biglaugh:
 

Nash

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Namso said:
I'm canadian and u have no idea what ur talking about. First of all, the 2005 draft was dominated by Americans. Canada might have had the numbers, but US had all the bluechippers (except Crosby), 2006 looks like another strong year for US, and 2007 is not looking that bad.

The 2005 draft was dominated by Americans?
How so? Top 10 players had 6 Canadians & 4 Americans.

The US had all the bluechippers (except Crosby)?
What? Weren't the next 5 picks after Crosby considered nearly equal by most draft publications? 2 of those were American & 3 were Canadian.

The entire first round had 15 Canadians and 8 Americans. I don't know if you are trying to make a point that this was one of the most dominant drafts the US has ever produced, but that isn't how you stated it. The Americans certainly did not dominate the Canadians in this draft. Your bluechipper remark is asinine.
 

Absolut

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Jaded-Fan said:
Just am curious . . . what more did you or anyone expect of him?

Tied for 11th in scoring (with LeCavalier by the way) with 5 goals, 14 assists for 19 points in 15 games. Still on pace for just over 100 points for the year (102 points, 27 goals and 75 assists).
Fantastic numbers. But having seen all Pens games, I do not see an unstoppable force like the young Gretzky and Lindros. Gretzky and Lindros were flat out scary. Crosby is very dangerous indeed, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he's the second coming of Gretzky.
And because Crosby has gotten so much grief here, it does give me a smile to point out that AO is tied for between 33rd and 40th in the league (15 points),
Classy. AO plays for the worst team in the league and just came over from a different country. I think if anyone has impressed the hell out of the NHL, it's him.
 

Mothra

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Jaded-Fan said:
'And because Crosby has gotten so much grief here ...........'

Just could not resist having some fun . . . ;)

heh...I know you like to stir it up a little....me too :)

as for grief...I think it pales to what Ovechkin got after the WJC......

(yea...thats right...I am planting the seeds to a whole new argument....which one got more grief)
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mothra said:
Stats are just like any tool.....misused and they give bad results....

............


Just an interesting observation though. The stats, albeit a fairly small sample of 15 games, have played out for AO and Crosby almost exactly as you and I had pretty much predicted . . .actually as most pretty much predicted. They are almost mirror images of one another, but reversed:

Crosby over 15 games had 5 goals, 14 assists.
AO over 14 games had 10 goals, 5 assists.

Exactly as advertised. AO more of the sniper, Crosby more of the wizard setting up the play. Again, not that each are not good at the other facet, but everyone going in pretty much said this about each of them and it seems to be playing out in just that way.

Actually Malkin also is by reputation a wizard at seeing the ice and setting up goals. Very different players of course but the end result for both should be similar, more assists than goals. Pens should be set down the middle for a decade to come with those two, and you could put Larry, Moe, Curly and Shemp on the wings and get 30 goals from each of them.
 
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Bobby Orr's Knees

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Jaded-Fan said:
And because Crosby has gotten so much grief here, it does give me a smile to point out that AO is tied for between 33rd and 40th in the league (15 points)
Ovechkin has 10 goals in 14 games, to Crosby's 5 goals in 15 games. Crosby plays with Hall of Famers while Ovechkin plays with AHL'ers. Perhaps if he had somebody to finish his passes, Ovechkin's assist totals would be a bit higher, no?

As far as the age difference is concerned, Crosby may be younger but he's played in North America all his life. Alex Ovechkin has to learn a new language and adjust to a new life on top of transitioning into a NorAm game. But hey, if you enjoy the fact that his stats are below Crosby's, it's no big deal. Personally, I look for impact beyond the stats.
 
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