Friedman: Kessel is in play

[OCPenguin]

I see the point you are trying to make, I just hate using the argument "why trade a top 6 forward and a top 4 dman for a top 6 forward"? Trades are made based on talent, contracts, positions of strength, etc. In this case the top 6 forward you mentioned is a good upcoming young player who will probably get better. However, the other top 6 forward in the equation had more than double the amount of points last season, carries his own line, runs the PP, etc. You can't just water it down to them both being a top 6 winger.

The Pens aren't trading Kessel without Kempe or Toffoli coming back. Pearson is a possibility if packaged with a better D man.

Also, side note, is "top prospect" an appropriate term for your 3rd/4th best prospect? Not being a jerk, I would just think getting Kessel and retaining your top 2/3 prospects would be a big win for the Kings.

The Kings aren't trading Tofoli in a deal for Kessel. As a Penguin fan, that would be stupid of them to do so. They need another scoring forward with Tofoli there. Counterproductive. To be honest, I don't see a match here whatsoever. I'm not a Martinez fan and see Pearson as a third line guy to be honest. Pittsburgh needs to move on from talking with the LAK.

 

[attaamillo]

The Kings aren't trading Tofoli in a deal for Kessel. As a Penguin fan, that would be stupid of them to do so. They need another scoring forward with Tofoli there. Counterproductive. To be honest, I don't see a match here whatsoever. I'm not a Martinez fan and see Pearson as a third line guy to be honest. Pittsburgh needs to move on from talking with the LAK.

That's why I thought Kempe made the most sense as the forward coming back but the LA fans are totally against that as well.

 

[57special]

There is a lot of smoke from credible sources. Kessel's 8 team restriction makes it really hard to speculate but I'll throw out some random thoughts from the teams you named.



Minnesota -- Brodin + Coyle/Greenway .. steep price from MIN but I agree with you, MIN makes a lot of sense. I think they really need a player like Kessel to take the next step.

They need another guy in his 30's and to trade away two guys under 25? Yeah, no. There is no Crosby or Malkin on the Wild, and losing Brodin when Suter's health is at issue would be the height of recklessness. Last thing the Wild need is this trade.

 

[attaamillo]

They need another guy in his 30's and to trade away two guys under 25? Yeah, no. There is no Crosby or Malkin on the Wild, and losing Brodin when Suter's health is at issue would be the height of recklessness. Last thing the Wild need is this trade.

I'm not going to argue if that's your opinion but the bolded is exactly why I think you guys need Kessel. He can carry a line and make up for average centers.

 

[Peat]

This is a legit question I'm wondering about if the Penguins trade Kessel.

Since the Leafs still have $1.2 million of his contract against their cap does it get taken off or does it remain and what's left on Kessel's contract gets taken on by whatever team trades for him?

Salary retention remains when a player is traded.

 

[Bazeek]

I'm not going to argue if that's your opinion but the bolded is exactly why I think you guys need Kessel. He can carry a line and make up for average centers.

He'd be a welcome addition, but I'd hope we pass at that price. Zucker/Nino + our 1st I can swallow.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I don’t understand the Nino thing. He’s a right wing that is about a million less in cap hit. Why would we trade for him?

 

[rent free]

This is a legit question I'm wondering about if the Penguins trade Kessel.

Since the Leafs still have $1.2 million of his contract against their cap does it get taken off or does it remain and what's left on Kessel's contract gets taken on by whatever team trades for him?

It remains. Why would it get taken off?

 

[sovietsanta87]

The 2 cups thing shouldn't really make him more valuable...that's a team thing. I will give you tbe rest though. Although i could counter with when we traded him he was 3 years younger and other than his last season was pretty much a PPG player here witbout Crosby/Malkin.

It makes him more valuable when he’s the leading point getter for the cup team in 2016 and third in scoring during the cup run in 2017. We’re not talking about Conor Sheary being on a cup winner.

 

[gdsmack267]

I could see the Kings maybe being interested. Kessel would be a good fit on that PP and top line. Pens would need a 2nd line LW + depth D/high pick.

 

[Bazeek]

I don’t understand the Nino thing. He’s a right wing that is about a million less in cap hit. Why would we trade for him?

Nino's a LW. If he's spent time on the right it's because we've had a lot of LW's and fewer RW's.

From the Wild's perspective I think trading for Kessel makes some sense if we can trade one of our LW's (presumably Zucker and Nino would be the most appealing) + a 1st/prospect. It gives us another right shot and should be an overall upgrade at forward. The concern is that Kessel's more expensive (though it's a very reasonable contract, in my opinion) and older, so maybe this just exacerbates our current problem: lots of expensive players that are in their 30's are due for decline in the next few years.

I get the skepticism from the Penguins' side though. Why trade a 92 point RW for a 55-65 pt LW? And that's assuming that either Zucker or Nino can reproduce their career highs. Personally I think both of those guys are safe bets to be in that 55-65 point range for 5-6 years, and that's in Minnesota. I'd kind of assume a bump in either one's numbers if they were playing with the Penguins (just like I'd assume a dip in Kessel's numbers in Minnesota). Both are likely to be on comparable contracts once Zucker re-signs, so that's not much of a difference between the two. The big difference, in my opinion, is that Zucker is an excellent even-strength scorer but surprisingly bad on the powerplay. Nino doesn't have Zucker's speed, but he's better on the powerplay and has a habit of making whatever line he's on better. Both can hold their own defensively.

Whether it's appealing to downgrade from Kessel to that for the sake of a late 1st, I couldn't say. To me Kessel seems to fit the Penguins like a glove, so if he's traded at all I have to assume it's partly for non-hockey reasons.

 

[attaamillo]

He'd be a welcome addition, but I'd hope we pass at that price. Zucker/Nino + our 1st I can swallow.

Zucker + 1st is getting closer but really depends on Zuckers next price tag.

I don't you want to part with Dumba or Brodin but Pens would prob prefer to center the trade around one of them packaged with a lesser forward.

Would Greenway be on the table in a splash trade like this?

 

[Bazeek]

Zucker + 1st is getting closer but really depends on Zuckers next price tag.

I don't you want to part with Dumba or Brodin but Pens would prob prefer to center the trade around one of them packaged with a lesser forward.

Would Greenway be on the table in a splash trade like this?

I'd rather keep Greenway/Kunin but I couldn't rule either of them out if Pittsburgh wanted one of them instead of the 1st.

I'd hope Dumba is kept far away from any trade discussions, at least any that involve players older than 24-25. Brodin is kind of hard to gauge; a lot depends on how nervous Fenton is about Suter's injury. If Suter's health isn't a concern I don't think Brodin would be off the table, though I think we'd rather try to keep the top-4 intact.

 

[attaamillo]

I'd rather keep Greenway/Kunin but I couldn't rule either of them out if Pittsburgh wanted one of them instead of the 1st.

I'd hope Dumba is kept far away from any trade discussions, at least any that involve players older than 24-25. Brodin is kind of hard to gauge; a lot depends on how nervous Fenton is about Suter's injury. If Suter's health isn't a concern I don't think Brodin would be off the table, though I think we'd rather try to keep the top-4 intact.

Kunin is probably the better prospect but I personally would prefer Greenway because we dont have anyone on the team or farm system like him. I'd take the risk that he can score in the NHL and hope he can play LW .

Still prefer a defenseman to be the centerpiece of a Kessel deal but if we could get Zucker + Greenway, I'd probably live with that and then trade Sheary for a good 4-5 type defenseman.

 

[Bazeek]

Kunin is probably the better prospect but I personally would prefer Greenway because we dont have anyone on the team or farm system like him. I'd take the risk that he can score in the NHL and hope he can play LW .

Still prefer a defenseman to be the centerpiece of a Kessel deal but if we could get Zucker + Greenway, I'd probably live with that and then trade Sheary for a good 4-5 type defenseman.

Zucker + Greenway is more than I'd want us give up, but if Fenton thought Kessel was a priority I could see it happening.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Zucker + Greenway is more than I'd want us give up, but if Fenton thought Kessel was a priority I could see it happening.

I'm curious, would Minnesota be able to trade purely futures for Kessel and make it work with the cap? There keeps being murmurs about the Penguins going after Tavares in free agency, and if that's actually true, the Penguins would be restricted to getting futures and ELC NHLers for Kessel. My gut tells me that Minnesota wouldn't be able to afford adding Kessel without subtracting one of Coyle, Zucker or Niederreiter, but I'm not sure about that.

 

[Bazeek]

I'm curious, would Minnesota be able to trade purely futures for Kessel and make it work with the cap? There keeps being murmurs about the Penguins going after Tavares in free agency, and if that's actually true, the Penguins would be restricted to getting futures and ELC NHLers for Kessel. My gut tells me that Minnesota wouldn't be able to afford adding Kessel without subtracting one of Coyle, Zucker or Niederreiter, but I'm not sure about that.

No, and they shouldn't want to if they could.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'm curious, would Minnesota be able to trade purely futures for Kessel and make it work with the cap? There keeps being murmurs about the Penguins going after Tavares in free agency, and if that's actually true, the Penguins would be restricted to getting futures and ELC NHLers for Kessel. My gut tells me that Minnesota wouldn't be able to afford adding Kessel without subtracting one of Coyle, Zucker or Niederreiter, but I'm not sure about that.

In theory, yes, we could make it work cap-wise. But two very key events would have to occur: 1. Dumba and Zucker would have to be re-signed at a combined $12 million or less, and 2) a team would have to feel very charitable and take Ennis off of our hands (probably use Buffalo's 3rd round pick to do it).

Our lineup would be something like:

Zucker - Staal - Granlund
Parise - Coyle - Kessel
Nino - Koivu - Kunin
Foligno - Eriksson Ek - $750k 12th F
$750k 13th F

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba
Olofsson - Prosser
$750k 7th D

Dubnyk
Stalock

Cap hit ~ $79.75M

Assuming Eriksson Ek and Kunin weren't a part of the futures package (Greenway, Kaprizov, 2018 1st, 2019 1st, etc...)

 

[Bazeek]

In theory, yes, we could make it work cap-wise. But two very key events would have to occur: 1. Dumba and Zucker would have to be re-signed at a combined $12 million or less, and 2) a team would have to feel very charitable and take Ennis off of our hands.

Our lineup would be something like:

Zucker - Staal - Granlund
Parise - Coyle - Kessel
Nino - Koivu - Kunin
Foligno - Eriksson Ek - $750k 12th F
$750k 13th F

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba
Olofsson - Prosser
$750k 7th D

Dubnyk
Stalock

Cap hit ~ $79.75M

Assuming Eriksson Ek and Kunin weren't a part of the futures package (Greenway, Kaprizov, 2018 1st, 2019 1st, etc...)

I stand corrected, but I don't like what this does to our prospect pool at all. I guess it depends on the actual price, though.

Maybe the other way to do it would be some kind of 3-way trade:

Nino to Team X for futures
Team X's futures to Pittsburgh for Kessel
Kessel to Minnesota for Nino+

Or something?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I stand corrected, but I don't like what this does to our prospect pool at all. I guess it depends on the actual price, though.

Maybe the other way to do it would be some kind of 3-way trade:

Nino to Team X for futures
Team X's futures to Pittsburgh for Kessel
Kessel to Minnesota for Nino+

Or something?

Me either.

 

[BHD]

I could see the Kings maybe being interested. Kessel would be a good fit on that PP and top line. Pens would need a 2nd line LW + depth D/high pick.

It depends. The Pens would need an established player coming back, and the Kings might not be willing to part with certain players.

 

[BHD]

Yes, the Pens are going to trade Kessel for "futures." It's not like they're trying to remain competitive or anything.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I stand corrected, but I don't like what this does to our prospect pool at all. I guess it depends on the actual price, though.

Maybe the other way to do it would be some kind of 3-way trade:

Nino to Team X for futures
Team X's futures to Pittsburgh for Kessel
Kessel to Minnesota for Nino+

Or something?

I figured that if Minnesota were to bring in Kessel, Niederreiter would be moved for cap relief. Not only does he make a lot of money, but at that point, he's not even that big of a need anymore. It would lessen the blow on Minny's prospect pool by doing that too, if you were able to get a 1st and a prospect for Niederreiter (which doesn't seem unreasonable) and then you'd use a 1st and prospects for Kessel.

If not for Kaprizov's KHL status, I'd say just Kaprizov and a 1st for Kessel would be a good return for the Penguins that doesn't hurt the Wild all that much.

Yes, the Pens are going to trade Kessel for "futures." It's not like they're trying to remain competitive or anything.

The concept is trading Kessel for futures to get cap space for Tavares, which is being discussed on the Penguins board currently.

 

[Bazeek]

Yes, the Pens are going to trade Kessel for "futures." It's not like they're trying to remain competitive or anything.

I think the idea was that they'd only do it if they were also signing Tavares. I'm not sure how the order of operations works there, though. I'm guessing Minnesota makes it's moves in advance of the draft, so it'd probably have to be with a different team.

 

[Bazeek]

If not for Kaprizov's KHL status, I'd say just Kaprizov and a 1st for Kessel would be a good return for the Penguins that doesn't hurt the Wild all that much.

It hurts me. Personally.