Kessel - Interesting article...

[Peat]

I thought the Nashville rumours were about Ellis? Makes more sense given their cap hits next season.

 

[Gurglesons]

I imagine if those were the offers, he wouldn’t have been traded because Bjugstad has only one season of more than 40 points and Brodin is solid but not special....Phil is a special shooter and those are underwhelming deals.....that’s why I say, again, the team is better off signing a much better player in FA and taking a first and a good prospect for Phil...

The thing is you can’t determine what a player does without Malkin or Crosby and with them.

Phil is a great player, but he doesn’t fit with Sid or Malkin. (Or won’t be used that way) So, if you can get a top 15 pick and a player that potentially does fit with one of those two. You ultimately could have a better team.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I thought the Nashville rumours were about Ellis? Makes more sense given their cap hits next season.

Could have been I can’t quite remember? I don’t really want to go through my post history to check. It was based around one of those 2 though.

Ekholm makes a lot more sense for us though.

 

[Gurglesons]

Could have been I can’t quite remember? I don’t really want to go through my post history to check. It was based around one of those 2 though.

Ekholm makes a lot more sense for us though.

It was Ellis.

The other rumored center piece was Domi in Arizona.

 

[Tom Hanks]

It was Ellis.

The other rumored center piece was Domi in Arizona.

Yup. I used the search function (mods should be proud ) and it was Ellis.

There was discussion during the preseason and again in November.

 

[Shrimper]

The dude produces. Yes.. he plays a very interesting brand of hockey. But who gives a ****? He produces. If Sully has a problem with it, he can **** off. Not every player is Sidney Crosby. When you get a coach's favorite, you get ZAR.

When you get a Phil Kessel (and there are many other examples), you have to be creative to keep them engaged and playing the right way.

This.. So much this.

He's currently a PPG player. How can you not love that?

 

[Shady Machine]

Jamie Oleksiak also produces. Just saying. We are winning without Kessel now. Or might as well say, despite Kessel, because he is more minus than plus these days. The thing is, there is no natural fit for him here 5 on 5, he struggles 5 on 5. He is definitely useful on the powerplay, but not some world beater. Jake Guentzel can do a solid job by replacing him there. Kessel is not a key for our success, nor is he playing like that. Also, he didn´t play well in last playoffs and he is not playing well now. PPG or not, he is not playing well. Sullivan is not an idiot in this case.

Haha are you actually comparing Big Rig and Kessel? I didn’t think that was possible

 

[Tom Hanks]

This.. So much this.

He's currently a PPG player. How can you not love that?

He’s slowly trending into being on the ice for more goals against than for (at ES). Unfortunately Malkin is having his worst season in that regard too.

Obviously he’s a match winner but I hope to see that stat tighten up a bit (for both of them).

 

[Tom Hanks]

Haha are you actually comparing Big Rig and Kessel? I didn’t think that was possible

Yeah Big Rig 3 points in the last 20 games, Phil 18 points in the last 20. The more you go back the bigger the divide

 

[ChaosAgent]

He’s slowly trending into being on the ice for more goals against than for (at ES). Unfortunately Malkin is having his worst season in that regard too.

Obviously he’s a match winner but I hope to see that stat tighten up a bit (for both of them).

Yeah, Letang was a PPG player in last year's playoffs as a d-man. Too bad he was terrible. Points are not everything if you making it exceedingly easy for the opponent to score.

The magnitude of Kessel's pros and cons has him constantly on a knife-edge between helping the team and hurting the team. Since the 2018 playoffs, he has been on the wrong side. He will always have points especially when he's on PP1, but there's a lot of flaws in his game that make playing him at 5-on-5 a tough proposition - and Kessel/Malkin has been an absolute disaster this year. If we keep him we need to give him L3 with 2 defense-first players ala HBK. No more run-and-gun "chance trading." If Kessel/Malkin were trading those chances 1:1 with the other team, that would be fine but it's much closer to 2:1 in favor of the other team.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Kessel will frustrate the heck out of everyone, but he's a rare talent in the league. We have no one vaguely like him as a RHS and a dynamic offensive player, and no, Jake can't play in his spot on the PP. And of course, he's got a pretty ironclad no-trade. We will lose a Kessel trade due to all this.

Sullivan needs to earn his pay-check, and keep the roster engaged. Lots of coaches have gone through this here, that's the job in Pittsburgh. If they don't like it they can go coach coal-miners in Calgary or something.

 

[Shrimper]

He’s slowly trending into being on the ice for more goals against than for (at ES). Unfortunately Malkin is having his worst season in that regard too.

Obviously he’s a match winner but I hope to see that stat tighten up a bit (for both of them).

He's got 3 years after this year. The only way or time I see him being traded is in the last season if we need cap.

 

[Will Hunting]

Haha are you actually comparing Big Rig and Kessel? I didn’t think that was possible

Nice cherry-picking, of course it was not a valid comparison, just making a point. There was a period of time when Oleksiak made 8 points in 8 games and that production meant nothing because of a player he is defensively. Production is overrated, that´s what I am saying. Kevin Shattenkirk was also producing on the powerplay not long ago.. and where is he now? And I can go on and on.

 

[Peat]

Nice cherry-picking, of course it was not a valid comparison, just making a point. There was a period of time when Oleksiak made 8 points in 8 games and that production meant nothing because of a player he is defensively. Production is overrated, that´s what I am saying. Kevin Shattenkirk was also producing on the powerplay not long ago.. and where is he now? And I can go on and on.

Considering the reaction I saw here and elsewhere to Oleksiak when he was on his hot streak, and now, I think that comparison makes the opposite point to what was intended; that production washes away virtually all sins. The big difference is that Oleksiak scoring 8 in 8 is completely unsustainable, while Kessel does things like that fairly regularly.

Letang last playoffs is the level of self-harm a guy has to bring for guys to ignore his production. And Kessel's a long way away from that.

I mean, I'd agree that individual production is overrated, but don't expect that to be agreed with much.

 

[Will Hunting]

Also, Jake Guentzel is slowly but surely catching Malkin and Kessel production-wise. And that´s without being on the 1st PP unit. Slot Jake there and he is right behind Sid in the production. And he is not making defensive lapses as much as they are. So, it´s not like our PP would/should suffer so much if Jake replaces Phil there. I would argue that he deserves to be there now. And tell me the spot where you are confident for Phil to be effective 5vs5... Then tell me how irreplaceable Phil is for us.

To me, we can be a better team even if our scoring average drops a little. You can see it now. We are winning those 2-1 games, playing better defensive hockey. Eliminate those bad habits and be hard to play against. There is still enough talent on this Pens lineup. Kessel for Ekholm/Ellis would be great for us, but I don´t believe something like that is possible and I have no idea what is possible.

Anyway, I am not saying Kessel should be traded now. Maybe offseason makes more sense and we can take one last gamble with him in these playoffs. Brassard is the one who needs to go immediately.

 

[Tom Hanks]

He's got 3 years after this year. The only way or time I see him being traded is in the last season if we need cap.

Yeah I’m not advocating for him to be traded. It’d be a complex situation. I think JR will explore it/be open to it if the right deal comes along.

 

[Ugene Magic]

All these guys go through these phases.

It is disheartening they can't all click at once, but we all know that just isn't how it works for this team. At best you get two to click in spurts, and right now that is Sid and his line driving their play.

Last year, it was Kessel and Geno. This year I don't know, there seems to be a correlation to Phil and Sid really working well with Guentzel even when they were not producing. They still had a lot of high danger chances that just wouldn't go in. Now Rust has found new energy with them.

I think you just wait out the lines staying together as they are for now until things click once more with adding/switching out 3rd wheels. Phil can drive the play himself. Allow him to create while other guys figure out how to match up with him.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, and I feel like Malkin has a history of keeping his minuses (decision-making, stupid penalties, trying to do too much, lax defense) in check when it really counts. The other difference is that Malkin has the ability to be average - maybe even above-average - defensively. Whereas Kessel has no actual defensive or board play ability.

That is wrong, he just has to be invested, and those tend to come in big games or against top rivals. He picks his spots, and he wasn't brought here to be a great two way winger. Everyone knows his traits, and he squashed a lot of them when it matters, too.

 

[Pens x]

Please don’t trade him for more bottom-pairing dmen.

We can’t lose Kessel unless we receive a RW or LW back. Our LW depth is pretty pathetic, and our RW depth will be crap if we deal Kessel.

Please just fire Sullivan before our roster is transformed into total trash from the team trading players he doesn’t like.

 

[ColePens]

Kessel will frustrate the heck out of everyone, but he's a rare talent in the league. We have no one vaguely like him as a RHS and a dynamic offensive player, and no, Jake can't play in his spot on the PP. And of course, he's got a pretty ironclad no-trade. We will lose a Kessel trade due to all this.

Sullivan needs to earn his pay-check, and keep the roster engaged. Lots of coaches have gone through this here, that's the job in Pittsburgh. If they don't like it they can go coach coal-miners in Calgary or something.

Amen. I think it's a coach's responsibility to keep guys like Geno/Kessel engaged. It takes creative leadership. Sid is a robot. A coach's dream robot. They are few and far between. Even Mario had to have a little creativity from coaching to keep him engaged. The guy just saw the game differently than everyone else.

It's Sully's responsibility. I fully 100% agree with that.

 

[Will Hunting]

Amen. I think it's a coach's responsibility to keep guys like Geno/Kessel engaged. It takes creative leadership. Sid is a robot. A coach's dream robot. They are few and far between. Even Mario had to have a little creativity from coaching to keep him engaged. The guy just saw the game differently than everyone else.

It's Sully's responsibility. I fully 100% agree with that.

We have seen Kessel not engaged in Pittsburgh. I don´t think it´s his biggest problem now. I don´t see a guy that doesn´t care. He doesn´t even play all that bad. It´s just him having no real fit and chemistry 5 on 5 and his game has those chronical flaws, even if he is engaged. Right now, he is definitely more engaged than Geno but it still is what it is..

 

[ColePens]

We have seen Kessel not engaged in Pittsburgh. I don´t think it´s his biggest problem now. I don´t see a guy that doesn´t care. He doesn´t even play all that bad. It´s just him having no real fit and chemistry 5 on 5 and his game has those chronical flaws, even if he is engaged. Right now, he is definitely more engaged than Geno but it still is what it is..

Fair.. but I put more of that blame on Brassard. There hasn't been a line given to Brassard that he has looked good with. It's ridiculous. He's looked like the same player no matter what line he goes on. There has not been a consistent amount of games where he's looked like a great player short of pre-season.

He's had some good games. He's never put a string of them together.

 

[mpp9]

Kessel is way more engaged this season than his first couple regular seasons here.

If we had a 3C who could be leaned on defensively more, I'd have Phil with Sid. But with Sid being used how he is, I get wanting Rust there.

 

[Shady Machine]

Nice cherry-picking, of course it was not a valid comparison, just making a point. There was a period of time when Oleksiak made 8 points in 8 games and that production meant nothing because of a player he is defensively. Production is overrated, that´s what I am saying. Kevin Shattenkirk was also producing on the powerplay not long ago.. and where is he now? And I can go on and on.

Comparing Kessel to Big Rig is just silly and baseless. Maybe Big Rigs random production is useless but Kessels 30ish goals and 70-80 points is not useless. It was just a weird comparison and has no relevance to Kessel.

 

[Shady Machine]

Also, Jake Guentzel is slowly but surely catching Malkin and Kessel production-wise. And that´s without being on the 1st PP unit. Slot Jake there and he is right behind Sid in the production. And he is not making defensive lapses as much as they are. So, it´s not like our PP would/should suffer so much if Jake replaces Phil there. I would argue that he deserves to be there now. And tell me the spot where you are confident for Phil to be effective 5vs5... Then tell me how irreplaceable Phil is for us.

To me, we can be a better team even if our scoring average drops a little. You can see it now. We are winning those 2-1 games, playing better defensive hockey. Eliminate those bad habits and be hard to play against. There is still enough talent on this Pens lineup. Kessel for Ekholm/Ellis would be great for us, but I don´t believe something like that is possible and I have no idea what is possible.

Anyway, I am not saying Kessel should be traded now. Maybe offseason makes more sense and we can take one last gamble with him in these playoffs. Brassard is the one who needs to go immediately.

Jake plays a completely different position on the PP vs Kessel. It doesn’t make any sense to have him on left half wall.