Kessel ill-suited as Leafs’ frontman ... Leaf must keep 1st.

[charliolemieux]

An injury that allows him to play and has lasted almost 11 months?

I do not think that passes the sniff test....

Pretty sure he meant Lupul

 

[diceman934]

That's why I am glad none of the people on these boards are the real Leaf's GM.

I think that you are correct......I'm glad Burke is not the GM any longer as now a hockey decision can be made.....

The GM will weight all the factors and make a hockey decision......I just hope that he is allowed to! Salary expectations and term needs to be taken into consideration vs value on the open market. If his expectation is an overvaluation you have to seek other options.

I think even you can agree that we can not over pay him and hand cuff us moving forward.

 

[diceman934]

Pretty sure he meant Lupul

Thanks.....misread. I even had my glasses on and my first coffee so there goes those excuses....

 

[4evaBlue]

Lets say your right.

So does that mean (as it has been debated before) Kessel can't produce unless he is with other allstar caliber players?

The only thing Kessel does well is produce points, when he is not doing that, should he not be called out for it?

If your defensive D specialist is getting danced night in and night out( as in not getting their job done), do we not call them out?

If our tenders are not stopping the puck (once again their role on the team) do we not call them out?

Your best players need to play that way to succeed in this league, How has Kessel done since RC started coaching?

There are very few players around the league who can produce well while playing with 3rd liners, and facing the toughest defensive matchups every game. Nash in Columbus is probably one of the better examples of this. I can't think of any other teams that's had such a sad top line over the past 3-4 seasons (and Kessel has nothing to do with that fact).

 

[Faltorvo]

There are very few players around the league who can produce well while playing with 3rd liners, and facing the toughest defensive matchups every game. Nash in Columbus is probably one of the better examples of this. I can't think of any other teams that's had such a sad top line over the past 3-4 seasons (and Kessel has nothing to do with that fact).

E.Staal ?

Iggy?

Taveras?

Gaborik when he was in Minny?

Kinda fit the bill.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

You would be very hard pressed to find any team really succeed when your so called star player can't hold their own when it's 5 on 5 hockey.

I'm not convinced that PK can.

He was 6th in the league in even strength goals last year. 4th in the league in even strength points. I'm confused how he doesn't hold his own?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I get the feeling this will be Kessel's last few months with Toronto, it's a gut feeling but if he is moved, I just hope we land a first rd pick in return for him. Probably a top prospect and a first is what we will get.

 

[Faltorvo]

He was 6th in the league in even strength goals last year. 4th in the league in even strength points. I'm confused how he doesn't hold his own?

Wow thats some solid stuff there , one would think that player then would not be a -10.

I mean since rankings matter, that -10 is the 2nd worst +/- out of the top 50+ scorers in the league.

 

[charliolemieux]

E.Staal ?

Iggy?

Taveras?

Gaborik when he was in Minny?

Kinda fit the bill.

None of those have had it as bad as KEssel. Not counting last year with Lupul.

E. staal has had good linemates several times.
Iggy maybe. But he doesn't really fit with these guys.
Tavares? Really? Back to back 30g seasons from his winger...
Gaborik had Rolston, PMB, Koivu Demitra.

So I'm not really seeing how it's the same.

 

[RedRenegade]

I was just about to post the +/- stuff. It bothers me

 

[frantiq]

I get the feeling this will be Kessel's last few months with Toronto, it's a gut feeling but if he is moved, I just hope we land a first rd pick in return for him. Probably a top prospect and a first is what we will get.

Some people think the Lupul resigning was meant just for Kessel. They do have chemistry. But I still have to agree with you, something tells me that this is Kessel's last season in TO.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Wow thats some solid stuff there , one would think that player then would not be a -10.

I mean since rankings matter, that -10 is the 2nd worst +/- out of the top 50+ scorers in the league.

Ah, plus-minus. My favorite meaningless statistic. By your logic, Jarome Iginla, Eric Staal , Rick Nash, Jeff Carter, Ryan Getlaf, and Mike Cammaleri all "can't hold their own" 5 on 5. All men, btw, who played for teams that gave up less goals than the Maple Leafs in 2012, but had +/- equal to, or worse than Phil Kessel.

The same Phil Kessel that sported an Even +/- rating at the time when his linemate, whom arguably was the only first\second line calibre forward he's played with since being in Toronto, got hurt. He subsequently was a -10 over the last month of the season.

I'm just saying.

 

[SarcazemKadri]

I was just about to post the +/- stuff. It bothers me

If +/- bothers you, you are ignorant to the details of the stat. Kessel puts a ton of pts up on the PP, which are not counted against +/-. If they were, he would be a high + player.

 

[buntek]

Wow thats some solid stuff there , one would think that player then would not be a -10.

I mean since rankings matter, that -10 is the 2nd worst +/- out of the top 50+ scorers in the league.

He's an all-round player. He's still learning, it's only his 7th season in the league, it's his centerman's fault, his conditioning and defence will improve next off season. blah blah blahhh.

 

[egd27]

Sorry.

Edited because I did not read the whole meaning.....Lupul being injured is part of the consideration.......but it does not explain everything......his product has fallen off the map. I'm sure that he will start scoring soon, but it is a wonder if there is an connection.

Not suggesting it explains everything, but if you couple it with a new style of play due to coaching it makes the picture clearer.

Kessel's never going to grind it out on the boards and win a lot of puck battles, but he is coming back deeper and has been much more effective at clearing pucks from the defensive zone.

After 6 games he should probably have 2-3 goals based on historical averages. I think many folks (not you specifically) are getting a little too worked up over being a couple of goals off expected pace.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Not suggesting it explains everything, but if you couple it with a new style of play due to coaching it makes the picture clearer.

Kessel's never going to grind it out on the boards and win a lot of puck battles, but he is coming back deeper and has been much more effective at clearing pucks from the defensive zone.

After 6 games he should probably have 2-3 goals based on historical averages. I think many folks (not you specifically) are getting a little too worked up over being a couple of goals off expected pace.

He dont have the stamina to play that way. Speed burst north, float south is more his style since that is what he can handle.

 

[goleafsgo87*]

Would get a number 1 center that has size and grit. Kessel's value is prolly at a all time high cause of last season. he is not the answer for toronto.

 

[ACC1224]

Not suggesting it explains everything, but if you couple it with a new style of play due to coaching it makes the picture clearer.

Kessel's never going to grind it out on the boards and win a lot of puck battles, but he is coming back deeper and has been much more effective at clearing pucks from the defensive zone.

After 6 games he should probably have 2-3 goals based on historical averages. I think many folks (not you specifically) are getting a little too worked up over being a couple of goals off expected pace.

Agreed, much more effort. He's looked better not scoring than at any other time here.

 

[charliolemieux]

If +/- bothers you, you are ignorant to the details of the stat. Kessel puts a ton of pts up on the PP, which are not counted against +/-. If they were, he would be a high + player.

Ya:

Kessel 4th in ESP in 2011-12

 

[egd27]

He dont have the stamina to play that way. Speed burst north, float south is more his style since that is what he can handle.

26 minutes, 1 assist and 0 GA last game. But you've already closed your mind so I doubt anything he does will be enough for you.

 

[Liminality]

26 minutes, 1 assist and 0 GA last game. But you've already closed your mind so I doubt anything he does will be enough for you.

Sadly that's how it'll go for some Leaf players on here. People have already judged the players and there's no way they can improve and are a cancer to the team.

Kessel has been showing good back checking work with his speed. Maybe that's why he's more tired out there recently, and the fact he didn't play during the lockout.

He'll be in mid season form soon enough.

 

[hullsy47]

Sadly that's how it'll go for some Leaf players on here. People have already judged the players and there's no way they can improve and are a cancer to the team.

Kessel has been showing good back checking work with his speed. Maybe that's why he's more tired out there recently, and the fact he didn't play during the lockout.

He'll be in mid season form soon enough.

hes no mats sundin ,yet he may wanna be paid like him .i just think hes gonna have to come out and say he wants to stay in toronto and is willing to a 2 year contract extension at lets say 5,5..in all fairness burke gave hin his raise upfront

 

[LEAFSIN4]

E.Staal ?

Iggy?

Taveras?

Gaborik when he was in Minny?

Kinda fit the bill.

what exactly have those players accomplished by playing with 3rd liners? Iginla hasn't made it out of the first round since Calgary's cup run... Staal has only made the playoffs once since winning the cup. Gaborik had 1 long run in the playoffs with Minny. Taveras, albeit playing on a rebuilding team, has yet to make the playoffs.

if anything, these players prove that 1 elite scorer alone will not take you to the playoffs. Hockey is a team game and you need talent all around to have success. With only 1 game-breaker opposing teams can focus most of their attention on shutting that guy down and letting somebody else beat them. The Leafs have great depth, but they need another game-breaker and we'd be ready to compete.

 

[Anthrax442]

You would be very hard pressed to find any team really succeed when your so called star player can't hold their own when it's 5 on 5 hockey.

I'm not convinced that PK can.

Ovechkin is playing on a line with Joey Crapp, result = 1G.

Kessel cannot play by himself, as no other sniper can.


You can't trade Kessel for youth, unless you are commited to a full teardown. Lupul, Grabs, Phaneuf gotta follow him. I believe we are in a position of either doing all we can to get a bona fide 1C and a solid goalie or a stud D, OR commit a full teardown of this team. Can't just release your 35+ goal scorer and leave only 1 guy on the top line.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Ovechkin is playing on a line with Joey Crapp, result = 1G.

Kessel cannot play by himself, as no other sniper can.


You can't trade Kessel for youth, unless you are commited to a full teardown. Lupul, Grabs, Phaneuf gotta follow him. I believe we are in a position of either doing all we can to get a bona fide 1C and a solid goalie or a stud D, OR commit a full teardown of this team. Can't just release your 35+ goal scorer and leave only 1 guy on the top line.

I'm just left thinking we overpaid Lupul with all of these comments about linemates.