Kessel closing gap on Crosby?

[HabLover]

Couple of thoughts:

For starters, Cogliano shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Kessel, Crosby, and Brule.

Cogs led the U18 World Cup in scoring last year with 10pts in 5 games. Brule could only muster 4 goals and 0 assists. Now who shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath? Cogliano is better than you may think. I guess we'll see next year when Cogs is at Michigan and Kessel is at Minnesota. Now at no time did I ever say Cogliano was better than Kessel, but perhaps the gap is closer between these two guys than it is with Kessel and Crosby?

 

[Quiet Robert]

The gap between Crosby and Kessel isn't big at all, in fact its tiny with a slight edge to Crosby. Kessel is amazing when he gets the puck in the neutral zone. The big difference between these two is that Kessel can snipe goals from 30 feet away, 98% of Crosby's goals are either right around the net or going end-to-end against the sub-par Q defenceman.

The big difference I see is that Crosby's game is much more complete and his hockey sense is as good as good or better than most pros. Though Kessel may have the edge in slick moves, pretty much every other aspect goes to Crosby.

-Passing/vision, Hockey sense, defence, checking, physical play, puck control, strength etc... Crosby is significantly ahead in most of these categories. Puck control I don't mean stickhandling, but keeping control of the puck while being checked/hooked/speared etc.. as Crosby does. (I only bring this up because the amount of abuse Crosby takes often goes overlooked- Sure some people say 'it's only the Q' but Crosby takes at least one cheap shot per shift.)

Nothing against Kessel, he's an amazing player, and he'll keep developing, but to say that the big difference is how they score doesn't do justice to how well Crosby understands the game and how far ahead he is in this aspect.

Plus they are different types of players. Kessel is more of a one-dimensional offensive dynamo whereas Crosby, as I said, is much more complete. Again, not bashing Kessel, he'll be a great player, and should improve in the next year, I just don't think there are as close as you make it out to be. I'm not saying he's miles and miles ahead, but the gap certainly isn't "tiny."

 

[Attica]

as far as development and overall skill, Crosby is miles ahead of kessel. Kessel may be more fun to watch, but he can't touch Crosby.

 

[gretzky99]

Right now I would say,

Crosby > Kessel > Brule

Personally, from the limited amount of Kessel that I have seen, he appears to be better then then Brule (CHL Playoffs), although Brule was injured (So they say).

 

[pei fan]

crosby speed is getting underrated .. baring any injury .. he's the fastest Q player i've seen and that includes gagné,vermette,(insert your player name)

Last year his speed was above average but not spectacular except
for his acceleration.This year and especially last couple of months his speed is
spectacular. Like I said his accelaration has always been great,but it's also his
quickness to change directions and probably the biggest thing is he doesn't slow
down carrying the puck.I think his speed is underrated coming off the scouting
reports from last year but it's probably his biggest improvement this year.The
biggest feature of his skating is incredible balance.

Question- I don't know much about the leagues in the U.S. Could someone tell me how Kessel's league compares to the one Crosby played in at Shattuck St. Mary's.
Did Kessel ever play at that level (Shattuck St. Mary's)and if so how old was he
and what was his production?

 

[markov`]

But not only is Crosby a threat everytime he is on the ice, he makes every single one of his linemmates a threat as well.

That's the best description of Sidney Crosby I've seen so far.

 

[Macman]

There's no doubt Crosby has a more-rounded game, but I don't think the gap between the two is anywhere near as big as most here seem to think. How could it? Both played at the world juniors and by any objective measure Kessel had the more spectacular tournament. He's slightly faster. He shoots just as well, if not better and he's an underrated passer. Maybe not quite in Crosby's league but very, very good. The thing that concerns me about Kessel is how well his game will translate to the NHL. He'll go around a few guys his first time through the league, but how will he react when players adjust? Both are very, very good.

 

[Schlep Rock]

It's funny...

Nobody knows EXACTLY what type of NHL career Crosby is going to have and we're already annointing OTHER players as "the next Crosby"

For the record, I think Kessell has closed the gap (if a players keeps getting better, they're obviously going to close the gap!) but the nod still goes to Crosby (IMO).

With that being said, I think if anything we should be comparing Kessell to current/former NHLers instead of a hyped-up prospect (Crosby is one of the best prospects in a very long time but he is also hyped) since we don't know what success he will have at the NHL level (likely a lot but he could max. out as a 70-point scorer, nobody can predict the future).

 

[pei fan]

It's funny...

Nobody knows EXACTLY what type of NHL career Crosby is going to have and we're already annointing OTHER players as "the next Crosby"

For the record, I think Kessell has closed the gap (if a players keeps getting better, they're obviously going to close the gap!) but the nod still goes to Crosby (IMO).

With that being said, I think if anything we should be comparing Kessell to current/former NHLers instead of a hyped-up prospect (Crosby is one of the best prospects in a very long time but he is also hyped) since we don't know what success he will have at the NHL level (likely a lot but he could max. out as a 70-point scorer, nobody can predict the future).

Now this has to be one of the most IRONIC posts ever on this board.We keep on
hearing about how Crosby hasn't done anything yet and shouldn't be compared
to NHL stars and I'm pretty darn sure you have posted such a thing yourself.
Now there's a comparison between 2 players of almost identical age and you're
saying Kessel should be compared to an NHLer instead of Crosby.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Now this has to be one of the most IRONIC posts ever on this board.We keep on
hearing about how Crosby hasn't done anything yet and shouldn't be compared
to NHL stars and I'm pretty darn sure you have posted such a thing yourself.
Now there's a comparison between 2 players of almost identical age and you're
saying Kessel should be compared to an NHLer instead of Crosby.

No, what he's saying is both players whould be compared to NHLers instead of Crosby being looked to as a benchmark when he hasn't even played a game of professional hockey yet. There is no such thing as a sure bet when it comes to sports, and Crosby, as good as he is is no differant.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

There's no doubt Crosby has a more-rounded game, but I don't think the gap between the two is anywhere near as big as most here seem to think. How could it? Both played at the world juniors and by any objective measure Kessel had the more spectacular tournament. He's slightly faster. He shoots just as well, if not better and he's an underrated passer. Maybe not quite in Crosby's league but very, very good. The thing that concerns me about Kessel is how well his game will translate to the NHL. He'll go around a few guys his first time through the league, but how will he react when players adjust? Both are very, very good.

I think Kessel is already learning that you can't do junior league inside/outside moves on a regular basis and get away with it. I've been following his play closely this year, and it seems like he is mucking it up a bit more and using his linemates better. He'll have to continue to do that to be sucessful. That was a hallmark of Lafontaine's game, who I think Kessel resembles quite a bit. He was a great goalscorer, but was also a great passer.

 

[pei fan]

No, what he's saying is both players whould be compared to NHLers instead of Crosby being looked to as a benchmark when he hasn't even played a game of professional hockey yet. There is no such thing as a sure bet when it comes to sports, and Crosby, as good as he is is no differant.

I'm glad you understand.
Crosby is the best 17 year old hockey player playing now.
Kessel is a 17 year old hockey player (less than 2 months age diff.).
Crosby is Kessel's benchmark.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'm glad you understand.
Crosby is the best 17 year old hockey player playing now.
Kessel is a 17 year old hockey player (less than 2 months age diff.).
Crosby is Kessel's benchmark.

I'm not interested in putting Crosby (or Kessel) up on the kind of pedestal some of you guys are suggesting. There is no doubt that Crosby is the best junior aged player in the world right now. In that sense he is superior to Kessel, but we don't know what impact they will have at the next level. For all we know, they both could bust and Brule and Mueller could end up as better pros.

 

[Wondercarrot]

crosby speed is getting underrated .. baring any injury .. he's the fastest Q player i've seen and that includes gagné,vermette,(insert your player name)

totally underrated. ive never seen anyone accelerate like Crosby and i've watched a lot of hockey. He picks up speed like Bure but does it as smoothly as Coffey, its totally effortless lightning speed, and all the while his hands and head go at whatever speed required no matter how fast his feet are moving. Its truly amazing.

Phil Kessel is no Crosby. He's an awesome hockey player and anyone will be lucky to have him, but a hockey player is more than the sum of his individual skills....its how he ties it all together....the unmeasurable part part that separates great players from the legendary ones....its almost innate they just know what to do where to be and how to get it done.

IMO its like comparing a guy like Kovalchuk with Gretzky. Kovalchuk is amazing, one of the best players in the league, extremely exciting, all the tools.
It would seem he's better than Gretzky in almost any individual aspect but when you cobble the whole thing together Gretzky is God and Kovalchuk is serving him drinks.

Crosby has talent hiding in his talent. With Kessel i believe what you see is what you get. (which is lovely in its own right) just not Crosby nice IMO.

 

[nomorekids]

Kessel is, in my opinion, the best American talent I've seen since Modano.

That said...Crosby is clearly better because of the OTHER things he can do.

At the same time...offensively...in terms of sheer explosiveness\dangle, I'd give that particular edge to Kessel. It's like the difference between Kovalchuk and Heatley. When Heatley is healthy, his all-around game makes him more valuable than the one-dimensional Kovalchuk..but man..do you love to have Kovy, too.

 

[espo*]

Heres how David Conte put it when asked what guy he likes better......" it depends what game of either kid you've watched last"

 

[espo*]

Crosby is obviously better then Kessel, but 10 years from?....I could see #'s like this:

52 Goals, 51 Assists for Crosby
43 Goals, 45 Assists for Kessel
(feel free to move those numbers up and down....point was that Crosby wont be destroying Kessel in points..but will still have a healthy dose more)

So what im saying is...Kessel will see be very good...but I doubt he'll ever be as good as Crosby. Though im higher on Kessel staying healthier then Crosby..Kessel is bigger. (yes thats all i have to base that argument on )

Actually when it comes to staying healthy i'm just as concerned about Kessel as Crosby,he's a bisquit carrier at high speeds,not exactly ther best case scenario for long term health in todays nhl of gargantuan players who deliver concussions and knee injuries.I actually like Crosby's ability to stay healthier by a slight margin although his long term durability concerns me too.I mean Kessel is bigger but that dangleing style everywhere and across high traffic zones......WHEW!! you can see bad things happening down the line.......size does;nt help much with that style of play....it's high risk today,always was really,ask Bobby Orr.

 

[pei fan]

a hockey player is more than the sum of his individual skills....its how he ties it all together....the unmeasurable part part that separates great players from the legendary ones....its almost innate they just know what to do where to be and how to get it done.

Crosby has talent hiding in his talent.

 

[cagney]

Question- I don't know much about the leagues in the U.S. Could someone tell me how Kessel's league compares to the one Crosby played in at Shattuck St. Mary's.
Did Kessel ever play at that level (Shattuck St. Mary's)and if so how old was he
and what was his production?

Kessel played for the Madison Capitols midget major squad while Crosby was at S-SM. S-SM actually played against many of the same teams the Capitols did and I'm pretty sure they met each other a few times. The S-SM team probably had a somewhat stronger schedule overall though.

Anyway, Kessel had 113 goals and 45 assists for 158 points in 71 games. Crosby had 72 goals and 90 assists for 162 points in 57 games.

For the record, I think Crosby is much better than Kessel but that says more about how much I think of Crosby than it does anything against Kessel.

 

[Blackshad]

Well, count this Canadian as being more impressed with Kessel than Crosby so far. In the World Juniors, I saw Crosby as a guy who was only dominant on the power play, who racked up the majority of his goals and points against three ultra crappy teams in the round robin. Against the top talent, he managed 2 measly assists in 3 games (and of course, half of them on the power play).

Crosby couldn't dominate the best juniors, and folks think he's going to dominate the NHL? He'll have a good career, but nowhere near the godlike status being attributed.

Hum... he had 17 and 16 years old.. thats alot younger than 20.

 

[King_Brown]

NHL is getting there Lebron James, and Carmelo Anthony into the league, too bad the players are soo greedy.

 

[William H Bonney]

and 98% of Kessel's goals are from sub-par U18 competition like Canisius College, Trinity College, Colby College, etc.

C'mon give us a break MB!

Care to prove that?

 

[nomorekids]

Care to prove that?

You're missing out on the number 1 criteria for a good player in HL's eyes...

Kessel isn't Canadian.

How could he be good?

 

[Jeffrey]

You're missing out on the number 1 criteria for a good player in HL's eyes...

Kessel isn't Canadian.

How could he be good?

I was wainting for that remark ...
surprised its from an American ..
I was 100% sure somebody would bring up nationality in the debate ...

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

and 98% of Kessel's goals are from sub-par U18 competition like Canisius College, Trinity College, Colby College, etc.

And what about Kessel's goals at the International level? Are you telling me that when he un-dressed those 19 year old Swedish defenceman that wasn't impressive? And what about destroying the likes of Luc Bourdon, Ryan Parent, and Brendan Mikkelson at the U-18's?