Confirmed with Link: Kessel and a 4th to Arizona for Galchenyuk and PO Joseph

[WheresRamziAbid]

Kessel is:
11th in goals
12th in points
vs
Galchenyuk is:
119th in goals
122th in points

Over the last 3 seasons. This move doesnt help you win now, nor does it help you win later.

Did you know despite his production Kessel drug down Malkin to the point that we were a one line team.

Oh you didnt?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

"General manager Jim Rutherford said late Saturday night that Kessel, as controversial as he is gifted, asked the Penguins to be traded numerous times during the past season. "

It's Yohe, so I'm not sure how many here will believe it. Kessel's take (again from Yohe):

“I’m not sure that’s exactly what happened,” Kessel said. “Jim came to me one time and said, ‘(You’ll) never be a Penguin again.’ I think he’s mistaken a little bit there. But I don’t want to get involved in that. I’m not here to tell what really happened and the real truth, but whatever Jim wants to say.”

Even though I’m a big Kessel fan, I have to admit it’s pretty odd Bomb found that info about Kessel and Chi disagreeing about him asking to be traded when in Boston.

Weird mix up happened twice like that? Seems strange,

 

[Empoleon8771]

The annoying thing about the response to this trade is that people are refusing to evaluate it with context, and instead only looking at the point totals. Let's face it, the Penguins got Kessel for scraps, won 2 cups and then traded him for slightly better value than what they gave up 4 years prior. How someone can criticize the Penguins for the last trade, when Kessel isn't nearly as valuable as what that person thinks, is just crazy to me. This trade isn't in a vacuum.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

The annoying thing about the response to this trade is that people are refusing to evaluate it with context, and instead only looking at the point totals. Let's face it, the Penguins got Kessel for scraps, won 2 cups and then traded him for slightly better value than what they gave up 4 years prior. How someone can criticize the Penguins for the last trade, when Kessel isn't nearly as valuable as what that person thinks, is just crazy to me. This trade isn't in a vacuum.

Also consider the cap space it freed up and the much needed pmd prospect we received too

 

[Peat]

A relatively tepid take...

1) People keep looking at individual production. Look at unit production. Phil's done very little positive with Geno for the last 2 years overall compared to our other options. His PP impact is debatably around 5 goals over a season. You're probably not getting anyone to get his points totals but in terms of a team goals going down, the amount mightn't be as big as it looks.

2) I like the top end and low end of this deal more than Zucker. Players do great, Galchenyuk and POJ can do a lot more for the Pens now and in the future. Players do bad, we're not on the hook for that contract. Players work out as you expect, then probably better off with Zucker, but it can still work out with this deal.

3) Another thing I like about the deal is if we're thinking later in the season "This team is great but missing something top end" then the flexibility of that expiring contract and that extra desirable future helps us compared to the Zucker deal too.

4) This isn't what Kessel was worth in a vacuum. But I think this might have been worth what Kessel was actually doing for us.

I dunno. Right now, I'm feeling okay with it, a little impressed with the value Rutherford got, little nervous about the next move - and lets make no mistake, this has to be one of a series of moves.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

A relatively tepid take...

1) People keep looking at individual production. Look at unit production. Phil's done very little positive with Geno for the last 2 years overall compared to our other options. His PP impact is debatably around 5 goals over a season. You're probably not getting anyone to get his points totals but in terms of a team goals going down, the amount mightn't be as big as it looks.

2) I like the top end and low end of this deal more than Zucker. Players do great, Galchenyuk and POJ can do a lot more for the Pens now and in the future. Players do bad, we're not on the hook for that contract. Players work out as you expect, then probably better off with Zucker, but it can still work out with this deal.

3) Another thing I like about the deal is if we're thinking later in the season "This team is great but missing something top end" then the flexibility of that expiring contract and that extra desirable future helps us compared to the Zucker deal too.

4) This isn't what Kessel was worth in a vacuum. But I think this might have been worth what Kessel was actually doing for us.

I dunno. Right now, I'm feeling okay with it, a little impressed with the value Rutherford got, little nervous about the next move - and lets make no mistake, this has to be one of a series of moves.

In terms of trades I’m not nervous about anything. Maybe because I’m not attached to anyone, or because JR seems to be doing alright with his last few deals...

With FA, that is where JR always f***s up... so ya not sure how I feel about that... thing is, it’s suppose to be a fun day for us fans so it would be cool if he had the option of chasing after a guy... this is all about entertainment after all and FA is part of that.

Chances are if he has money to spend, history will prob repeat itself though, but I hope to be wrong.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Doubt anyone can confirm this, but I'm going to guess that Phil's list DIDN'T include AZ until tochett started coaching there

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Arizona was literally the only team he could be traded to based off of his list. Kessel controlled his destination. What did you expect with one suitor? Haha.

Where can I see the list?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I read the Cunstance article that was giving grades for the trade (Coyotes got an A and the Penguins got a B-, which seems fair to me), and he mentioned a quote from a NHL scout that said the Penguins will probably put Galchenyuk on RW and "he'll just score goals". My initial thought was that he was going to go on LW, but that might actually happen. Galchenyuk has a really good shot, both a wrist shot and 1-timer, so I think putting him on RW with Malkin may have a Neal-like impact with him. But if you do that, you're running into the same problems that you had when Kessel is here, who's your LW for Malkin and Galchenyuk?

With the thought that Galchenyuk would be a pure sniper on RW, I'd be tempted to run with Kahun-Malkin-Galchenyuk and put Rust on the top line. Kahun is another playmaker that can feed Galchenyuk and he brings similar traits to Rust with his defense and speed. To me, Galchenyuk is a much better fit for Malkin than Kessel was, because Galchenyuk will just be a pure sniper that has some dangles.

 

[Peat]

In terms of trades I’m not nervous about anything. Maybe because I’m not attached to anyone, or because JR seems to be doing alright with his last few deals...

With FA, that is where JR always ****s up... so ya not sure how I feel about that... thing is, it’s suppose to be a fun day for us fans so it would be cool if he had the option of chasing after a guy... this is all about entertainment after all and FA is part of that.

Chances are if he has money to spend, history will prob repeat itself though, but I hope to be wrong.

My head agrees with you.

My heart's still a little afraid of the guy who thought Johnson was the answer and that Grant would be physical etc.etc. regardless of how we got them.

 

[Turin]

Okay so I'm digging around to try to find some positives with Galchenyuk.

1. Even though he's been a drag on possession the past three seasons, the two prior seasons (14-15 and 15-16) he drove play pretty well. So this is more about reclamation than anything else.
2. Last season he played most of his time with Clayton Keller, who is also horrible defensively. It's possible that as a line that unit just eschewed defence entirely and that with more veteran players like Geno and Rust he'll be a little bit more exertive.
3. His analytics suggest that his isolated impact on the PP is even greater than Phil's is.

That's all I got here. Still not happy about this.

He’s a guy who at best could score 30, at worst becomes cap space and a decent pick at the deadline.

 

[Pens x]

They should have fired Sullivan before making this horrible trade.

 

[OnMyOwn]

So I didn’t get an answer last time I posted this. It’s been a while since I cared, but with being this close to the cap...how much can we go over it, initially.

I feel like it’s 10% until a certain date. Am
I wrong?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It is what it is. At least this stupid saga is over. They were hellbent on trading him and his NTC was constructed in such a way that the return was always going to be questionable. I don't at all care for Gally but Joseph seems like he could be a nice piece. All in all can't bitch about the return over much considering the circumstances. Though I'm far from confident this helps them much right now.

I do have to admit it's funny that all the stuff people were hammering Kessel for are basically the same things Gally struggles with.

 

[IcedCapp]

You're kidding yourself if you don't think Kessel didn't flounder worse then most. And yes his defense suffered this past year.

Or are you kidding yourself?

The plot thickens

 

[Shrimper]

The annoying thing about the response to this trade is that people are refusing to evaluate it with context, and instead only looking at the point totals. Let's face it, the Penguins got Kessel for scraps, won 2 cups and then traded him for slightly better value than what they gave up 4 years prior. How someone can criticize the Penguins for the last trade, when Kessel isn't nearly as valuable as what that person thinks, is just crazy to me. This trade isn't in a vacuum.

This is why, after having time to look at it, I'm okay with this trade. We got 2 cups out of Kessel, can't complain.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I actually read something interesting about POJ. He actually has a brother too in the Tampa Bay organization named Mathieu, he's one of their better prospects. He was only listed at 168 after his draft+1 year (15-16) and 172 after his draft+2 year (16-17). He's now up to 190 lbs and is a regular NHLer for the Lightning. POJ may just be a late bloomer when it comes to size like his brother was, that should be encouraging.

He needs to get to a similar size to Pettersson, who I actually view as a comparable player in terms of play style. He needs to add about 15-20 lbs, but he can probably do that. If he does that, they suddenly have another Pettersson caliber D prospect.

It is what it is. At least this stupid saga is over. They were hellbent on trading him and his NTC was constructed in such a way that the return was always going to be questionable. I don't at all care for Gally but Joseph seems like he could be a nice piece. All in all can't ***** about the return over much considering the circumstances. Though I'm far from confident this helps them much right now.

I do have to admit it's funny that all the stuff people were hammering Kessel for are basically the same things Gally struggles with.

I don't think many are crazy happy about getting Galchenyuk, just that they're happy with the value they got for Kessel. I do question whether the Penguins should want another Neal playing with Malkin, which is how I view Galchenyuk.

 

[Clare2904]

So I didn’t get an answer last time I posted this. It’s been a while since I cared, but with being this close to the cap...how much can we go over it, initially.

I feel like it’s 10% until a certain date. Am
I wrong?

10% over, believe until the day rosters have to be set. It is certainly throughout the summer

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

My head agrees with you.

My heart's still a little afraid of the guy who thought Johnson was the answer and that Grant would be physical etc.etc. regardless of how we got them.

He’s trying to move JJ, so no matter what happens, he knows he f***ed up.

I suspect he may have to retain a little and pay a high draft pick... maybe a 2021 2nd.. it’s going to be a bite he has to take though.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I actually read something interesting about POJ. He actually has a brother too in the Tampa Bay organization named Mathieu, he's one of their better prospects. He was only listed at 168 after his draft+1 year (15-16) and 172 after his draft+2 year (16-17). He's now up to 190 lbs and is a regular NHLer for the Lightning. POJ may just be a late bloomer when it comes to size like his brother was, that should be encouraging.



I don't think many are crazy happy about getting Galchenyuk, just that they're happy with the value they got for Kessel. I do question whether the Penguins should want another Neal playing with Malkin, which is how I view Galchenyuk.

I’m 6’ 2” and was about 175-180 through high school and a lot of college. I’ve been 205-215 since I hit my early 20’s. I’m guessing he’ll be similar but has the benefit of nutritionists and pro level training on his side. Some of us thin guys just have a hell of a metabolism, haha.

 

[Peat]

I’m 6’ 2” and was about 175-180 through high school and a lot of college. I’ve been 205-215 since I hit my early 20’s. I’m guessing he’ll be similar but has the benefit of nutritionists and pro level training on his side. Some of us thin guys just have a hell of a metabolism, haha.

This, although it took me even longer despite a long year in the gym. I only really got there after being introduced to chocolate stout.

 

[pensfansince88]

galchenyuk should do well with malkin.

 

[Empoleon8771]

https://theathletic.com/1054667/2019/06/29/alex-galchenyuk-has-size-a-shot-and-the-key-to-unlocking-evgeni-malkins-resurgence-for-the-penguins/

Good article from Rossi here, talks about how JR wanted to trade Kessel to help Malkin, not just trade Kessel.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I’m 6’ 2” and was about 175-180 through high school and a lot of college. I’ve been 205-215 since I hit my early 20’s. I’m guessing he’ll be similar but has the benefit of nutritionists and pro level training on his side. Some of us thin guys just have a hell of a metabolism, haha.

My buddy was a human rake in his teens and most of his 20s... when we worked at Burger King one summer in our teens he drank two super sized shakes every day almost for a dozen weeks to try and gain weight and never gained a pound.

It was silly as hell how his metabolism worked.

Now he has a gut and is overweight. It’s funny, because it’s not me.

 

[ownal]

Did Fenton like Galchenyuk too?