Confirmed with Link: Kessel and a 4th to Arizona for Galchenyuk and PO Joseph

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I read rossi's article today and was curious to see what pittsburgh fans thought of Kessel. AG is going to be a disappointment. He is what is at this point. Much like the leafs were handcuffed on who they could trade Kessel to, the same thing applied to the penguins. We traded Phil because we needed to get rid of his offence to tank, but also because of his attitude. I dont pretend to know the intricacies of Pittsburgh offence but I do know that it will be very hard to replace the points that Phil gives you. Last year was a let down for the penguins but I dont think that it was Phil's fault exclusively. Not enough to get traded in the form of an ultimatum atleast

There is a lot of truth to what you say and imply. Last year wasn't Kessel's fault and those who are trying to frame it that way are simply changing the story to suit their narrative... with a nice side of "I can feel better about this now that he's gone." He wasn't even the worst individual problem player. I'll give you one guess who that was. But he sure wasn't helping a lot of the time, either. And most importantly it was frustrating Malkin (more specifically Sully and Kessel's nonstop battles) to far past the point of distraction.

I'm not as enthusiastic about getting rid of Kessel as some. But in many ways it's getting rid of the idea of Kessel that bugs me. It's getting rid of an elite offensive talent the other team has to account for and replacing him with a bunch of question marks and 3rd/4th liners that bothers me. Kessel himself by the end of last year had basically already saw himself out the door and for a multitude of reasons simply could not return. There was too much damage done on both sides. Too much toxicity.

As for AG... we'll just have to see. I have never been a fan and frankly don't see much there but he has some attributes that Malkin could possibly tease the absolute best case scenario out of.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

Personally, the powerplay structure I think would be best is recreating this powerplay unit from 2013-2014:



But I think the thought of Malkin at the top of the point makes some people queasy. Instead, I expect them to have a powerplay very similar to what they had in 2014-2015:



Not having a right handed guy on the left half-wall isn't exactly a death sentence for a powerplay.

Long time lurker. Just joined. That top vid is from my Youtube channel

 

[varano]

There is a lot of truth to what you say and imply. Last year wasn't Kessel's fault and those who are trying to frame it that way are simply changing the story to suit their narrative... with a nice side of "I can feel better about this now that he's gone." He wasn't even the worst individual problem player. I'll give you one guess who that was. But he sure wasn't helping a lot of the time, either. And most importantly it was frustrating Malkin (more specifically Sully and Kessel's nonstop battles) to far past the point of distraction.

I'm not as enthusiastic about getting rid of Kessel as some. But in many ways it's getting rid of the idea of Kessel that bugs me. It's getting rid of an elite offensive talent the other team has to account for and replacing him with a bunch of question marks and 3rd/4th liners that bothers me. Kessel himself by the end of last year had basically already saw himself out the door and for a multitude of reasons simply could not return. There was too much damage done on both sides. Too much toxicity.

As for AG... we'll just have to see. I have never been a fan and frankly don't see much there but he has some attributes that Malkin could possibly tease the absolute best case scenario out of.

Well, at the end of the day Phil is Phil. JR knew what he was getting and everyone knew Phils reputation. I think everyone knew he was going to wear out his welcome but to be honest, I didnt think it was going to be after an 80 point season. We've seen a few years of the Geno/Phil bickering now but they seem to get it done in the past. I just dont know how much musical chairs you can play within the Penguins lineup until theres just not much framework left. Like we already both said, they traded away an 80 point guy and didnt get one back. Hopefully in a couple months theyre not looking for another Phil Kessel to replace Phil Kessel.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well, at the end of the day Phil is Phil. JR knew what he was getting and everyone knew Phils reputation. I think everyone knew he was going to wear out his welcome but to be honest, I didnt think it was going to be after an 80 point season. We've seen a few years of the Geno/Phil bickering now but they seem to get it done in the past. I just dont know how much musical chairs you can play within the Penguins lineup until theres just not much framework left. Like we already both said, they traded away an 80 point guy and didnt get one back. Hopefully in a couple months theyre not looking for another Phil Kessel to replace Phil Kessel.

There is something to be said for fit, honestly. For all of their points, Malkin and Phil were really not a terrific fit together. They were both just immensely talented and that tends to push through the bullshit. I know Malkin is now in the latter stage of his career but I have seen so many times in the past where he has taken linemates he simply clicks with and makes it work to glorious effect. Gooch has some attributes that could mesh extremely well with Malkin as do a handful of other options available. You are right that you cannot simply replace that 80odd points by snapping your fingers but if you can get a much more effective Malkin then it's an easy tradeoff to make because that dude literally makes it happen on his own when he is clicking... even these days.

All that said, I'm not nearly as bullish about this forward group as many of my fellow Pens fans and think that more support will be needed. They spent too much time and money on similar depth players to my eyes. Almost like a quantity over quality thing. It's an interesting gamble but not one that I think will completely work, at least so far as Malkin and the second line are concerned. There's also the matter of the garbage pail defense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I read rossi's article today and was curious to see what pittsburgh fans thought of Kessel. AG is going to be a disappointment. He is what is at this point. Much like the leafs were handcuffed on who they could trade Kessel to, the same thing applied to the penguins. We traded Phil because we needed to get rid of his offence to tank, but also because of his attitude. I dont pretend to know the intricacies of Pittsburgh offence but I do know that it will be very hard to replace the points that Phil gives you. Last year was a let down for the penguins but I dont think that it was Phil's fault exclusively. Not enough to get traded in the form of an ultimatum atleast

If Kessel's play outside of his points is so bad that it pushes Malkin to want to be traded if Kessel stayed, I genuinely have no clue how you can say this. Kessel was so bad outside of his point production that Malkin basically said "if he's still here, I don't want to be here". You need to look beyond the points, because there's something clearly there that is rotten.

But thank you for your concern about Kessel and how Galchenyuk is going to be a disappointment. This will be a good post to bump as Galchenyuk is putting up 30 goals on Malkin's wing.

 

[varano]

If Kessel's play outside of his points is so bad that it pushes Malkin to want to be traded if Kessel stayed, I genuinely have no clue how you can say this. Kessel was so bad outside of his point production that Malkin basically said "if he's still here, I don't want to be here". You need to look beyond the points, because there's something clearly there that is rotten.

But thank you for your concern about Kessel and how Galchenyuk is going to be a disappointment. This will be a good post to bump as Galchenyuk is putting up 30 goals on Malkin's wing.

Did you read the article at all? Malkin himself seemed like he was in a terrible headspace. Its pretty easy to hate everyone around you when youre an asshole.

 

[KIRK]

Well, at the end of the day Phil is Phil. JR knew what he was getting and everyone knew Phils reputation. I think everyone knew he was going to wear out his welcome but to be honest, I didnt think it was going to be after an 80 point season. We've seen a few years of the Geno/Phil bickering now but they seem to get it done in the past. I just dont know how much musical chairs you can play within the Penguins lineup until theres just not much framework left. Like we already both said, they traded away an 80 point guy and didnt get one back. Hopefully in a couple months theyre not looking for another Phil Kessel to replace Phil Kessel.

1. JR knew what he was getting into with Phil.

2. JR got what he wanted out of Phil.

3. JR's mistake in all of this was not moving Phil a year earlier (and there definitely was a group pushing for that).

 

[Gurglesons]

1. JR knew what he was getting into with Phil.

2. JR got what he wanted out of Phil.

3. JR's mistake in all of this was not moving Phil a year earlier (and there definitely was a group pushing for that).

Not sure the return for Phil would have been any better last year. We basically offered him for Domi + if I’m not mistaken.

 

[Gurglesons]

I read rossi's article today and was curious to see what pittsburgh fans thought of Kessel. AG is going to be a disappointment. He is what is at this point. Much like the leafs were handcuffed on who they could trade Kessel to, the same thing applied to the penguins. We traded Phil because we needed to get rid of his offence to tank, but also because of his attitude. I dont pretend to know the intricacies of Pittsburgh offence but I do know that it will be very hard to replace the points that Phil gives you. Last year was a let down for the penguins but I dont think that it was Phil's fault exclusively. Not enough to get traded in the form of an ultimatum atleast

Kessel won two cups here as a bigger contributor than Jagr in both. We will love him, but he was always a temporary solution here.

Not sure what you mean by AG being a disappointment. If he is a 40-50 pt guy as he has been throughout his career we needed one. If he connects he could be great for us.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Kessel won two cups here as a bigger contributor than Jagr in both. We will love him, but he was always a temporary solution here.

Not sure what you mean by AG being a disappointment. If he is a 40-50 pt guy as he has been throughout his career we needed one. If he connects he could be great for us.

If he scores 50+ we are a better team overall imo as much as i love kessel in general

 

[Peat]

I read rossi's article today and was curious to see what pittsburgh fans thought of Kessel. AG is going to be a disappointment. He is what is at this point. Much like the leafs were handcuffed on who they could trade Kessel to, the same thing applied to the penguins. We traded Phil because we needed to get rid of his offence to tank, but also because of his attitude. I dont pretend to know the intricacies of Pittsburgh offence but I do know that it will be very hard to replace the points that Phil gives you. Last year was a let down for the penguins but I dont think that it was Phil's fault exclusively. Not enough to get traded in the form of an ultimatum atleast

There's a huge multiplicity of views, which can be roughly broken down as follows

1) Kessel's tendency to get on people's nerves due to lack of effort/being very individualistic punched his ticket out of here and that's probably fair enough, but that does leave a big hole in offence that's probably not getting filled easily

2) Kessel's tendency to get on people's nerves due to lack of effort/being very individualistic punched his ticket out of here and that's probably fair enough, and when you look at the advanced stats for Geno and him as a line, maybe it won't be that difficult to replace his impact on the ice

3) Kessel's tendency to get on people's nerves due to lack of effort/being very individualistic should have been worked around because him moving left a big hole in offence and that was more important.

1 and 2 are roughly equal in popularity around here, with 1 maybe a bit ahead of 2. 3 is something of a minority view and I think one that got a bit more minority, as its generally a view espoused by those who place a big emphasis on individual star power and if both Crosby and Malkin didn't want to play with him 5v5, that actually leaves Kessel on the wrong end of individual star power.

Me, I'm in Group 2 and have been in favour of a Kessel trade for a solid year now. I think this has been coming and that it would have been smarter to move on before it reached this point. Do I think that and last year's Kessel's fault exclusively that it did? No, absolutely not, but I think that in terms of fixing it moving Kessel pretty much had to be done as he wasn't changing. Do I think the Pens will miss him? I'm honestly not sure but I prefer this gamble to that of keeping Kessel and think the potential is there for a very successful few season if a few questions break right for the Pens.

 

[66-30-33]

If he scores 50+ we are a better team overall imo as much as i love kessel in general

I think if the drama goes away we are a better team period.

 

[Strakanator]

Everyone magnified the Malkin/Kessel thing.

What about the 2nd line having to play with a horrid 2nd pair defensive unit all season!? I would stop skating too if there is s 0% chance the D-man can make an outlet pass.

Malkin will play better. Get him some defensemen that can skate and make passes. Then you will see a dramatic improvement.

It’s not all on Malkin. Get some freakin decent defensemen.

Also, Sid shouldn’t get special treatment and play with Tanger all season. They just leave Malkin to die alone.

 

[KIRK]

Not sure the return for Phil would have been any better last year. We basically offered him for Domi + if I’m not mistaken.

They never really pushed it, but I think they'd have done better . . . remember Phil was coming off a 92 point season last summer and was just one year removed from the 2nd cup.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Did you read the article at all? Malkin himself seemed like he was in a terrible headspace. Its pretty easy to hate everyone around you when youre an *******.

Posting from experience?

 

[The Old Master]

Everyone magnified the Malkin/Kessel thing.

What about the 2nd line having to play with a horrid 2nd pair defensive unit all season!? I would stop skating too if there is s 0% chance the D-man can make an outlet pass.

Malkin will play better. Get him some defensemen that can skate and make passes. Then you will see a dramatic improvement.

It’s not all on Malkin. Get some freakin decent defensemen.

Also, Sid shouldn’t get special treatment and play with Tanger all season. They just leave Malkin to die alone.

or just get rid of one.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Everyone magnified the Malkin/Kessel thing.

What about the 2nd line having to play with a horrid 2nd pair defensive unit all season!? I would stop skating too if there is s 0% chance the D-man can make an outlet pass.

Malkin will play better. Get him some defensemen that can skate and make passes. Then you will see a dramatic improvement.

It’s not all on Malkin. Get some freakin decent defensemen.

Also, Sid shouldn’t get special treatment and play with Tanger all season. They just leave Malkin to die alone.

Not about getting special treatment. Hes on the first line facing opposing first lines. So the top D pairing is what he should have.

Unless u want Dumo/Letang split up

 

[JTG]

I find it hilarious when people claim someone is going to be a disappointment when they have absolutely no idea how someone is going to slot into a lineup. Tanev and Galchenyuk are both doomed according to multiple people here.

I think Galchenyuk's game matches really well with Geno's. He will greatly benefit from Geno's E-W style. Galchenyuk has skill and size. His shot is downright lethal. Knock his skating, his desire, or his defense, but the dude can absolutely rip a puck. I'm excited to see him with Sid or Geno.

I am going to guarantee that Tanev becomes a fan favorite here. Hate his contract...the player is good. He always stood out when I watched Winnipeg games.

 

[EightyOne]

Yeah, I don't see why it's so difficult to understand we'd go back to the "Neal years" PP and insert Gally in his spot. This ain't rocket science.

 

[_Del_]

How'd POJ look in camp?

(Wasn't sure where to put this)

Hell, while I'm here, how has Galchenyuk looked? I was extremely skeptical when he came over, but he was much, much better here than I expected in regards to work ethic, playing engaged, physical play, board work, etc. Not a world beater, but deserved better than he got from our staff, imo.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How'd POJ look in camp?

(Wasn't sure where to put this)

Hell, while I'm here, how has Galchenyuk looked? I was extremely skeptical when he came over, but he was much, much better here than I expected in regards to work ethic, playing engaged, physical play, board work, etc. Not a world beater, but deserved better than he got from our staff, imo.

POJ looked very good, his skating and puck moving talents are very evident but he's a very raw player. I think he can establish himself as a full time NHLer next season. Galchenyuk looked amazing with Malkin in his 1 preseason game, but he's out with a nagging injury right now. I think most are happy with how the trade looks right now.

 

[66-30-33]

POJ was good and Chucky was in 1 preseason game only and clicked really well with Malkin but he's out with an injury that's been nagging.

How has Kessel been?

 

[_Del_]

Yeah, I really was coming to ask about POJ, not start a fight over the trade haha Just figured I'd dump it in here because I wasn't sure where it fit. Sounds like he is still as advertised. Just needs time.

Phil is Phil. Never been a huge fan. He is already pretty clearly the best offensive player on the team though.

Hopefully it all works out. For everybody. Galchenyuk needed to get away from Tocc. Phil and Sully needed a break, and he has a rapport with Tocchet for whatever reason.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Yeah, I really was coming to ask about POJ, not start a fight over the trade haha Just figured I'd dump it in here because I wasn't sure where it fit. Sounds like he is still as advertised. Just needs time.

Phil is Phil. Never been a huge fan. He is already pretty clearly the best offensive player on the team though.

Hopefully it all works out. For everybody. Galchenyuk needed to get away from Tocc. Phil and Sully needed a break, and he has a rapport with Tocchet for whatever reason.

And that's really the bottom line, the personalities just didn't work any more. Easier to make it work with success.

As much as some vocal posters like to posit that Phil was the cause of many of the team's issues the last year or two, in reality it is as you say, Phil is just Phil, and that's easy to scapegoat. He's actually pretty consistent in terms of what he brings, but needs defensive support on his line, and D men who can get him the puck. Geno and Phil didn't get that last year aside from the first month of the season, when they largely carried the team.

We're a worse team without Phil, but there was no way forward, so here we are. Very few posters expect AG to replace Phil's production, playmaking, PP QB'ing, and big game history. I'm just hoping Geno buckles down and plays the right way now, that's [supposed to be] the real upside of dumping Phil, to get a better and more motivated Geno.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

How'd POJ look in camp?

(Wasn't sure where to put this)

Hell, while I'm here, how has Galchenyuk looked? I was extremely skeptical when he came over, but he was much, much better here than I expected in regards to work ethic, playing engaged, physical play, board work, etc. Not a world beater, but deserved better than he got from our staff, imo.

Love POJ and how he looked in camp. I definitely like him better than Addison who was our best defenseman prospect before the additions of POJ and Marino. He reminds me a lot of a less polished Pettersson who we added last season which is understandable with him only being 20. POJ definitely looks close to NHL ready and just needs to work on a few positional defensive areas. His skating and offensive instincts look really good and I was surprised at how good he was able to defend against men at his weight. I was expecting him to get pushed around but he defends a lot like Pettersson and handles his job well despite the lack of weight. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he was in the NHL this season if he plays well during the first half of the year. I could see him surpassing Riikola by the end of the season. Time will tell but I think he is a guaranteed NHL defensemen and likely top 4 when he is fully developed.

In the past year Rutherford has added 3 young defenseman that will be in our top 6 for the next decade with Pettersson, Marino, and POJ. The way Rutherford was able to make our team much younger and bring in many good prospects while still in win now mode is very underrated around these parts.